TLOU2 Discussion Thread [NO LEAKS]

[Dankster Morgan]

Glenn was my favorite walking dead character and I still hate Negan (I say hate as in dislike him, but he is incredibly well written and entertaining) which makes me a lot more self aware on my salt for TLOU 2 when the parallel is drawn.

 

[Vslayer]

I think Abby is wonderful. She's guarded but the moment those walls fall, she starts to act so sweetly with Lev and it's my fave moments in the game. She opens up to him completely, then begins to care for him selflessly. It's truly beautiful. And she's kind of a dork under all that jock attitude, which I love.

"YOU'RE MY PEOPLE!" shit made me cry dude.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I liked playing as Joel in TLOU 1 so much, the first time you take control of Joel is right before Sarah dies and it is also how we're introduced to the universe. I think that's pretty powerful and made playing as Joel feel better than playing as Ellie. In my opinion of course. I love Ellie too, but more than anything I liked navigating the world with those two characters together, regardless of who I'm controlling.

I think this game works or doesn't work for people depending on if they like Abby or not. I can recognize that objectively, her story was well told and her character was well developed. But I didn't like her and still didn't like playing as her. To be fair though, I think Abby's missions were just less fun than Ellie's, so thats part of it too.

 

[Vslayer]

I mean that's perfectly fair! I honestly liked Abby's side better because of how less emotionally heavy it was for me. It was so hard seeing Ellie go down the path she did. I needed to take breaks cause it was pretty hard to get through. But I feel like Abby got some really diverse locations while Ellie stayed in the same area, but with more rain. Downtown Seattle was amazing, then it sort of fell off. And it was awesome to drive around a flooded city on a boat, but it was so drab and the fact that they benched Dina super early, well, you're also missing that dynamic and their light hearted banter.

 

[blackelipse]

I dont get it... Angry joe gave 7/10 to death stranding.....with worse gameplay and story so far fetch and confusing....im sorry youtubers going overboard abit..i understand ppl butthurt over how a character died but come on a 6/10....this game is nothing less then a 8....story was solid not great in my opinion other then story they nailed everything out the park...if they had swipe out ellie and joel and just put 2 new characters and have the game play out exactly how it did. This game would be getting praised...

 

[Vslayer]

I dont get it... Angry joe gave 7/10 to death stranding.....with worse gameplay and story so far fetch and confusing....im sorry youtubers going overboard abit..i understand ppl butthurt over how a character died but come on a 6/10....this game is nothing less then a 8....story was solid not great in my opinion other then story they nailed everything out the park...if they had swipe out ellie and joel and just put 2 new characters and have the game play out exactly how it did. This game would be getting praised...

Death Stranding was such a let down IMO. But yeah, I agree, the leaks made people too angry and made them not want to play and they believed every other false leak so that's what happened. Sad but oh well, this game will still be talked about in 10 years from now because even though it's not perfect it is a masterpiece.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Like I said, Abby working or not working is if the story does or doesn't work. Which is totally subjective.

I personally think that the pacing is god awful and the characters do things that they have given no indication whatsoever that they would do.



Being upset over how Joel died and seeing it as a major flaw is a perfectly legitimate criticism. Based on everything we know about him, there is no way he would have instantly trusted Abby. No fucking way, made him go out like a punk.

Despite the fact that he is my favorite character, I have no issues with him dying story wise. It makes sense for the first game to be about the death of a man's daughter setting the stage for him to do some awful things. And for the second game to be about the death of two women's fathers setting the stage for them to do some awful things.

But as I was saying, Joel in part 1 sped up the truck to run over the "hurt" man, Joel in this game was not the same man, despite the fact that he should have known he would be hunted. Joel could have died and it would still have been just as shocking and effective without disrespecting key traits of the man first.

I also feel that Abby and Ellie wouldn't have what it takes to spare one another. Like at all. If they want to show us harsh realities so badly, there is no way this would happen.

 

[Vslayer]

I believe he would have trusted Abby. If you read some notes in Ellie's patrol, it's explained how people in Jackson were making an effort to not shoot strangers on sight and to try to become more civilized, to regain their humanity. It's described that way in those notes. Ellie and Joel had been in Jackson for 4 years at that point, and he saw Abby, someone getting attacked, and he helped her and then she helped them. She fought alongside them, so why would he not trust her? Abby's actions after that were 100% impulsive, out of anger heartbreak when confronted by the man who killed her father. None of that was planned.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I believe he would have trusted Abby. If you read some notes in Ellie's patrol, it's explained how people in Jackson were making an effort to not shoot strangers on sight and to try to become more civilized, to regain their humanity. It's described that way in those notes. Ellie and Joel had been in Jackson for 4 years at that point, and he saw Abby, someone getting attacked, and he helped her and then she helped them. She fought alongside them, so why would he not trust her? Abby's actions after that were 100% impulsive, out of anger heartbreak when confronted by the man who killed her father. None of that was planned.

I still want to say no because of Joel's baeseline as a ruthless killer. He never fully trusted Henry in part 1 despite working together.

 

[Vslayer]

I still want to say no because of Joel's baeseline as a ruthless killer. He never fully trusted Henry in part 1 despite working together.

Still, people change, and 4 years living in a peaceful community is, to me at least, plausible that he would have become less hardened. Especially after running from a horde and being stuck in a blizzard.

 

[hkriderz]

The whole "Joel was too soft" complaint is completely unfair and doesn't have nearly enough context:

Spoiler

- It's been clearly shown that they've been dealing with strangers coming to Jackson and trading goods (see Joel's coffee).

- They were literally about to be overrun by zombies and a storm, and had no other choice but to go to Abby's place when she suggests it after talking about all other options they had.

- Tommy gave up Joel's name forcing Joel later on to repeat it as Tommy had already told Abby, so no he didn't just give them their name.

- Joel does not even trust where he is at all, the first thing he says is "Y'all act like you heard of us or something?" he obviously knew as soon as he stepped in to the place that something wasn't right.

How about being mad at actual contrivance from that scene like "Oh there happened to be a storm, a zombie horde and only Tommy and Joel on patrol by themselves and also happened to be in trouble, at the patrol area closest to Abby's place, right at the one time Abby decided to just go Rambo and go by herself. Now that's contrived.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Aside from Ben Affleck's Batman from BvS to Justice League, I have never seen a character get nerfed so hard from part 1 to 2.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

To bring it back to Alexandria again:

Spoiler: This has already happened before on TWD

This is EXACTLY what Rick Grimes does after the war against the Saviors and the end of his bloody quest for vengeance, so the precedent has already pretty much been set as far as post-apocalyptic persona changes go.

 

[Tony at Home]

Just finished the game finally and I'm sure that ending will stick with me for a long time. What an amazing ride.

Spoiler

I'm down for a sequel featuring Abbey and Lev

Spoiler

Tommy gave up Joel's name forcing Joel later on to repeat it as Tommy had already told Abby, so no he didn't just give them their name

Spoiler

Yeah, alot of people missed this.

 

[Vslayer]

To bring it back to Alexandria again:

Spoiler: This has already happened before on TWD

This is EXACTLY what Rick Grimes does after the war against the Saviors and the end of his bloody quest for vengeance, so the precedent has already pretty much been set as far as post-apocalyptic persona changes go.

And Rick was FAR gone man, like way out there. Like he would have fit with the garbage people lmao. He was overcome with bloodlust and power 100%.

 

[Tony at Home]

More thoughts on the ending

Spoiler

I like how Ellie's thought process behind sparing Abby was actually pretty ambiguous.

Alot of people are saying she forgave Abby... but I'm not sure that's the case? The brief flashback she has before letting Abby go is the quick flash of that image of Joel on the porch with the guitar. But after the fight in the longer version of that flashback her discussion with Joel ends in "I can't forgive you, but I can try". It's possible that Ellie was still too mentally damaged to even entertain the idea of forgiving Abby, but realized she didn't need to forgive Abby to spare her and start the healing process.

I don't feel like it's the case of "she managed to forgive Joel so she can forgive Abby". That seems like an absurd parallel given the two's relation to her. I can see it more that she's finally at peace with what Joel did, and with Abby she just no longer sees immediate and complete forgiveness as something required to start healing. I feel like that more fits in with the game's more "greyish" take on morality as well.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Even though the story fails for me in a lot of ways, especially in comparison to the first...

Replaying the game and knowing what I'm getting myself into makes me appreciate how awesome the stealth gameplay really is, as well as the graphics and especially facial animations being basically unmatched. Despite how disappointed I am in many ways, the game very very well made and is still worth your time.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

My favorite parts of the game

Spoiler

The museum flashback was the only part that wasn't depressing af.

The deaths of Abby's friends were honestly pretty cathartic to me. Owen was absolutely a piece of shit, Manny getting domed by Tommy after spitting on his brother's corpse was one of the only satisfying revenge pay offs, and I hated Mel also, too bad she was pregnant though.

RIP Jesse.

 

[Tony at Home]

Replaying the game and knowing what I'm getting myself into makes me appreciate how awesome the stealth gameplay really is, as well as the graphics and especially facial animations being basically unmatched. Despite how disappointed I am in many ways, the game very very well made and is still worth your time.

This guy is pretty crazy with the game's stealth. Watching it has inspired me to go back on the game's more difficult settings

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Reflecting back on the first game, I'm remembering that the second game wasn't the first time your actions in gameplay were re-examined in a more critical light. For the record, Joel did the right thing, the Fireflies are incompetent and awful. In the Winter section of TLOU 1, David mentioning how many of his men were killed by "a crazy man and a little girl", not that David was anything other than garbage but still.

Definitely miss switching between Joel and Ellie and the differences in gameplay that came with it. Joel was a big strong man and could do melee combat much easier, could choke people out and hold hostages easier, but he sucked with the bow and arrow, his backpack wasn't as good as Ellie's. Ellie on the other hand was a small teenage girl, but she had a pocket knife for infinite use where Joel had disposable shives, and was much better with the bow and arrow.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Do you guys think that Abby will be looked back on fondly after some time passes? The Arbiter in Halo 2 and Raiden in MGS2 come to mind as characters who weren't liked on the spot because people only wanted to be Master Chief or Solid Snake, but those characters are now accepted by the Halo and MGS communities.

 

[Vslayer]

Maybe? I mean, I feel like her journey was great and I loved her as a character despite what she did. I loved Joel despite what he did. I still love Ellie despite what she did. But beyond that, it's also personal preference. Some characters you just won't click with, just like people.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Maybe? I mean, I feel like her journey was great and I loved her as a character despite what she did. I loved Joel despite what he did. I still love Ellie despite what she did. But beyond that, it's also personal preference. Some characters you just won't click with, just like people.

Abby feeling like a "real" person may hold her back in this way, whereas the Arbiter is like a samurai inspired hulking badaass Alien and Raiden is a cyborg ninja, Abby hinges solely on of you like her. I can't really express how I feel about Abby, I don't like her, but I understand her? I guess? I do think the game went a little far in making Ellie such a piece of shit compared to Abby when you're being objective, but maybe that's just my preference and wouldn't have been better for the game. Would have actually liked a 3 way split between the Seattle events between Ellie, Tommy, and Abby, with a shorter epilogue.

 

[Zviko]

I think nostalgia or whatever would you describe this plays a major part of why Abby is the hated one and Ellie and Joel are not. Imagine Abby as the protagonist of the first game and Ellie and Joel the new guys of the 2nd game, roles would be reversed. Hell, you can even completely ignore the first game like it doesn't exist and it would feel a lot different especially if you would play Abby's side first.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I think nostalgia or whatever would you describe this plays a major part of why Abby is the hated one and Ellie and Joel are not. Imagine Abby as the protagonist of the first game and Ellie and Joel the new guys of the 2nd game, roles would be reversed. Hell, you can even completely ignore the first game like it doesn't exist and it would feel a lot different especially if you would play Abby's side first.

Definitely, just a little heavy handed with shit like having Abby pet the cute puppies, like give me a break. I think Lev is very important because Abby is not a good person but enables Abby to do some good things. Joel was not a good person either but Ellie brought out the best in him.