I do find it funny (in that it’s exceedingly ironic and unlikely, despite the fact that it’s a video game about mushroom zombies) that the doctor Joel kills just HAPPENS to have a transgender child that goes up against Ellie who’s now a full-fledged lesbian lol
She's not trans though, where the hell would you get test (or estrogen) injections in the apocalypse? Ellie was a lesbian at 14 too. Part 2 has plenty of awful forced shit, but that wasn't one of them imo.
Abby isn't too muscular for a girl but I feel like she has more mass than someone in the apocalypse could achieve, without a gym that is. Mostly, it is her triceps that stand out to me as unrealistic, but whatever, video game.
Watching streamers' playthrough the game counts as well. Me pressing the buttons on the pad myself don't really change the outcome (or that's my assumption at least). I mean you obviously have a different opinion, and that's perfectly fine. I'm not spending 60 bucks on false marketing games lmao.
About the plot, maybe you find it believable, that's fine. Then there are others who find it a bit of a stretch. And then there's the argument Neil Druckmann made himself, that certain characteris let down their guard after a few years. I mean if that's what he intended then that that's how the game goes.
I can concede the plausability thing on second thought. There's just so much stuff beyond that, that just baffles me. Like these never-ending second chances to certain characters despite the fact that they REALLY shouldn't have. Those continuous second chances are LITERALLY the only reason the narrative is carried on. It relies on the naivety of opposing factions to the point there's no one left on either side.
Yes, it's a grim reality, and grusomeness of the cruel world is definitely impactful. A big part of the revenge story is just relying on oversights and naive decision-making to the point it reaches a very questionable stage for me personally. Game looks stunning AF though
Maybe I just don't 'get' it, and time will tell when this thing goes on a hefty sale
Having a narrative carried by uncharacteristic character choices is arguably - from a fictions literature standpoint - not ideal. It's not like these decicions in the game are points of no returns. It's literally instances of uncharacteristic choices to push the narrative forward aaaaaaaand then we're back to 'normal' behavior. This of course begs the discussion whether or these instances actually are the truly normal acts, whereas the rest of the gameplay is a state of physcological duress. This is probably why people genuinely feel some instances are super forced and don't flow very well together. It's pretty 101 for fictious literature that a character's personality and rationale is the basis for this character's particular actions. Without it, the cohesiveness of the narrative is at risk. And that's what people criticize it seems, that there seems to be a discrepancy in the common thread of the narrative - or at least that's what's perceived, and I personally agree with some of the statements. Sure, humans aren't perfect and we're all hypocritical to a certain extent, but some of the instances are just way too head scratching and convenient for me to fully get behind it, and I'm not the only one.
I would prefer you to actually present points instead of just insinuating that I'm stupid
I would prefer you to play the game and form your own opinion. You want to debate about how characters make "niave decisions that are out of character" in broad generalizations and then want ME to make specific points? Absolutely not. You already answered your only specific point in that yes, the implication is that Joel let his guard down.
Let's be honest. You've already made your mind up about the game. There's no interest in wanting to understand anything that doesn't support your own opinion about the game.
Abby isn't too muscular for a girl but I feel like she has more mass than someone in the apocalypse could achieve, without a gym that is. Mostly, it is her triceps that stand out to me as unrealistic, but whatever, video game.
I do find it funny (in that it’s exceedingly ironic and unlikely, despite the fact that it’s a video game about mushroom zombies) that the doctor Joel kills just HAPPENS to have a transgender child that goes up against Ellie who’s now a full-fledged lesbian lol
I do find it funny (in that it’s exceedingly ironic and unlikely, despite the fact that it’s a video game about mushroom zombies) that the doctor Joel kills just HAPPENS to have a transgender child that goes up against Ellie who’s now a full-fledged lesbian lol
Lol are you serious? Did you play the game? Abby isn't transgender she's obsessed with becoming the perfect soldier and instrument of revenge, pouring herself into that role to fill the void of her loss and give her life some sort of meaning.
Lol are you serious? Did you play the game? Abby isn't transgender she's obsessed with becoming the perfect soldier and instrument of revenge, pouring herself into that role to fill the void of her loss.
She's not trans though, where the hell would you get test (or estrogen) injections in the apocalypse? Ellie was a lesbian at 14 too. Part 2 has plenty of awful forced shit, but that wasn't one of them imo.
While I may have heard wrong about Abby’s portrayal, I do want to point out that injections are not the defining factor of what makes a person trans or not.
I was merely stating my opinion on something that had been bugging me about the game since release. I’ve been corrected, and now it doesn’t bug me anymore. You are the one coming at me like a dog with rabies. Quit speaking.
Abby isn't too muscular for a girl but I feel like she has more mass than someone in the apocalypse could achieve, without a gym that is. Mostly, it is her triceps that stand out to me as unrealistic, but whatever, video game.
Even if she was trans and it was forced, GREAT. Keep pushing that, keep forcing it so this can become a standard so physical appearance, gender and sexuality of a character won't be the main talking point of video games or any other media anymore.
then in a way you're not really experiencing the full weight of the story because a lot of character development happens while playing as well and not just in cutscenes
This is true. I'm kinda more inclined to try it after discussing this with you - I mean thats what discussions are for. I'm still on the fence about the believability of the extent of the forgiveness that is shown (especially how some get 0 mercy - it's kinda weird like that). Maybe an actual playthrough with more detail to the lesser section of the game changes my perception.
Let's be honest. You've already made your mind up about the game. There's no interest in wanting to understand anything that doesn't support your own opinion about the game
Read the above. I already conceded one thing I deemed a plot-hole. Even if this is your point of view, you still don't have to insinuate that I'm a dumbass through snarky remarks. It's a friggin game. I didn't say fans of the game are brainless morons. I literally just said, if you bought into the circumstances, then the plot makes sense, and naturally with all its other great aspects, it's a great game.
If you're like me who find some of the sequences a bit far fetched, then it's much less impactful. Now that Slayer and I had a back and forth discussion, I opened my eyes a bit more to what I previously perceived as a plothole.
Like, why are you even in a discussion - a forum where conflicting opinions are bound to occur - if you just wanna insult people left and right. We should be able to discuss things in a civil manner
This is true. I'm kinda more inclined to try it after discussing this with you - I mean thats what discussions are for. I'm still on the fence about the believability of the extent of the forgiveness that is shown (especially how some get 0 mercy - it's kinda weird like that). Maybe an actual playthrough with more detail to the lesser section of the game changes my perception.
Read the above. I already conceded one thing I deemed a plot-hole. Even if this is your point of view, you still don't have to insinuate that I'm a dumbass through snarky remarks. It's a friggin game. I didn't say fans of the game are brainless morons. I literally just said, if you bought into the circumstances, then the plot makes sense, and naturally with all its other great aspects, it's a great game.
If you're like me who find some of the sequences a bit far fetched, then it's much less impactful. Now that we Slayer and I had a back and forth discussion, I opened my eyes a bit more to what I previously perceived as a plothole.
Like, why are you even in a discussion - a forum where conflicting opinions are bound to occur - if you just wanna insult people left and right. We should be able to discuss things in a civil manner
That's a good point! And I sort of have an answer.
I don't think Ellie reaches forgiveness with Abby, I think she wants to try (that's why she has that memory of when she's forgiving Joel while she's drowning Abby). And she doesn't say I forgive you Joel, she says "I don't know if I can, but I want to try." And that's where she's at in the end, because so far this addiction of wanting to go after Abby has cost her everything. And so Abby's story starts by looking for forgiveness, she finds it by helping Lev and Yara and her heart begins to heal. Ellie's story ends right where Abby's started and so I think that moving forward post credits, Ellie is now on a journey of forgiveness which is beautiful to me.
But that's just my own perspective I mean people can see it so many different ways and that's what's great about the depth of the human psyche that is explored in this game.
Finished The Last of Us 2 a couple of days ago, been catching up on all the backlash and discussion since.
I actually never saw any of the spoilers beforehand so it was a fresh experience.
I understand all the controversy and why some people have an issue, but I personally liked it a lot
Has its issues story wise, but solid sequel. Graphics and gameplay were 10/10
Overall I give it an 8/10
I think Joel's death broke people's brains too much. We love and sympathize with Joel, but he's clearly not a hero, and depending on how you see it, his actions hurt a lot of people and hits different. Again, we get it because we went through that entire journey. Of course you save Ellie, no question. But at what cost? Its not the same to Fireflies who've been struggling to find some hope, thought Ellie was a myth, then she randomly shows up to them. Turns out they prolly can make a vaccine but she has to die. Tough, but of course, sacrifice one to save millions, duh. And then boom, their entire group gets fucked by some random smuggler and their last hope is gone forever. Perspective.
This game is all about perspective. You hate Abby for what she did at first, but then you're forced to deal with her. You're forced to understand, and slowly you end up sympathizing with her (Lev and Yara are pivotal to her character development and they were done perfect). The theatre scene on day 3 is the perfect example of this. At first, you're like "omg no Jessie, omg Tommy, I spent all this time looking for her and she hurt my friends again! Fuck Abby. Kill this bitch". Then later, you're like "Fuck there's tommy he killed Manny and escaped, he has to pay for that. Oh no there's Ellie! I don't want her to die, but fuck she killed all my friends and I have nothing left, I'm pissed but conflicted. "
Obviously, if after all you go through with Abby and you still hate her, then I guess her character didn't work for you or you just couldn't see past Joel's death. Sadly, too many people fall into the latter category when they think about this game.
I have my own problems with the story and its pacing myself. My biggest gripe is that Ellie never got any redemption. She finally broke the cycle of revenge, actually saved Abby and Lev in the end (they'd have died in the slave camp), and actually moved on from Joel. But she lost everything in the process. Dina, the baby, her guitar skills, all her friends. She became alone, her biggest fear. It's tough to swallow. I love Ellie, I want her to be happy. I hope she gets her redemption in Part 3 if there is one somehow.
Yeah. I don't think everyone actually got that the very flash back she has while drowning her is the very conversation that deals with Ellie being very vocal about her difficulty forgiving Joel (as implied with the "trying" to forgive). You can deduce a shitload of things from the very last sequence. A lot of things could go through her head in those moments. Thinking of how sour her relationship with Joel turned out due to her stubborness/difficulty in forgiveness, and the fact the she barely had time to fix it afterwards before his death, the realization that people have motives that are justifiable to an extent within their own perspectives, second thoughts given how she probably wont have a 'home' to return to. List goes on. It wasnt perhaps even forgiveness of Abby, but much more so the realization the world is a lot more nuanced than it seems at first glance (she's still super young, it's important to note). And the overall reward/loss ratio - was it all worth it? There are definitely interesting things explored in the title.
I dont like when people say "oh she has a flashback of Joel and then she lets Abby go End of story", it's a little more symbolic than that. I see it as a realization that her persistence and stubborness ultimately hurt the ones closest to her. Joel made a choice to save her life - it was one that was against her principles, and their relationship took signifcant damage. She lost Dina (presumably) and quite probably still is coping with the loss of Riley. I think she's just sick of the deaths (which is where the switches between forgiveness and killing sprees is a bit head scratching) - at least deaths of important people around her.
Still it's a matter of interpretation at the end of the day
Yeah. I don't think everyone actually got that the very flash back she has while drowning her is the very conversation that deals with Ellie being very vocal about her difficulty forgiving Joel (as implied with the "trying" to forgive). You can deduce a shitload of things from the very last sequence. A lot of things could go through her head in those moments. Thinking of how sour her relationship with Joel turned out due to her stubborness/difficulty in forgiveness, and the fact the she barely had time to fix it afterwards before his death, the realization that people have motives that are justifiable to an extent within their own perspectives, second thoughts given how she probably wont have a 'home' to return to.
I was merely stating my opinion on something that had been bugging me about the game since release. I’ve been corrected, and now it doesn’t bug me anymore. You are the one coming at me like a dog with rabies. Quit speaking.
This is true. I'm kinda more inclined to try it after discussing this with you - I mean thats what discussions are for. I'm still on the fence about the believability of the extent of the forgiveness that is shown (especially how some get 0 mercy - it's kinda weird like that). Maybe an actual playthrough with more detail to the lesser section of the game changes my perception.
Read the above. I already conceded one thing I deemed a plot-hole. Even if this is your point of view, you still don't have to insinuate that I'm a dumbass through snarky remarks. It's a friggin game. I didn't say fans of the game are brainless morons. I literally just said, if you bought into the circumstances, then the plot makes sense, and naturally with all its other great aspects, it's a great game.
If you're like me who find some of the sequences a bit far fetched, then it's much less impactful. Now that Slayer and I had a back and forth discussion, I opened my eyes a bit more to what I previously perceived as a plothole.
Like, why are you even in a discussion - a forum where conflicting opinions are bound to occur - if you just wanna insult people left and right. We should be able to discuss things in a civil manner
I said something that you said was dumb (trying to assert your opinion as irrevocable fact, claim objectiveness, cite a singular example, speak in broad generalizations for the rest) I have nothing against you as a person. I don't even know you like that.
I hated Abby *at first for the same reason I hated Negan in issue 100 of The Walking Dead.
And I ended up loving her for similar reasons too.
I empathize with Abby a lot, especially because we both have a fear of heights and a friend like Owen, "like Owen" meaning someone who can be insensitive and compulsive sometimes but who is willing to see the best in other people.
Yep! And it's funny you mention Negan cause he has done far more horrible things than Abby has done and yet most TWD fans ended up liking him regardless of that.
I can't tell if Ellie is honest about wanting to turn back or not. The "We need to stay here for Tommy" excuse is honestly pretty legit sounding so I don't think she's lying to Jesse about her motivations...yet?
I'm also glad Jesse is around because I really like his character, but also am totally aware that being friends with Ellie means you have the life expectancy of someone with stage 4 cancer so I'm mentally preparing myself for the worst.
Yep! And it's funny you mention Negan cause he has done far more horrible things than Abby has done and yet most TWD fans ended up liking him regardless of that.
He's my favorite TWD character, especially in the last two seasons. And now that the parallels have been drawn, the want to go to Seattle is even deeper.
