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F Champ Receives Lifetime Ban, Racism in the FGC/USA, and Other Prevalent Social Discussions

I think there is a time and place for when certain episodes or scenes should be removed from things. For example, there's a lot of cartoons from the 40's and 50's that outright rely on racial stereotypes as a source of humor. There really shouldn't be a place for that.
Now that you mention it, I sometimes still catch "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips" once in a while on some random cartoon channel. Shit's bizarre.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
I think there is a time and place for when certain episodes or scenes should be removed from things. For example, there's a lot of cartoons from the 40's and 50's that outright rely on racial stereotypes as a source of humor. There really shouldn't be a place for that.
Do you think a movie like Blazing Saddles or Tropic Thunder has a place? The funniest parts of both of those movies are the stereotypical portrayals.
 

Marlow

Champion
Do you think a movie like Blazing Saddles or Tropic Thunder has a place? The funniest parts of both of those movies are the stereotypical portrayals.
Sure, I think both have a place. Especially Blazing Saddles. https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/02/07/272452677/blazing-saddles-the-best-interracial-buddy-comedy-turns-40

To me it's not just the stereotypical portrayals in the movie, but looking at the context of the time and what the point of the portrayals are. And understanding that something that may have been acceptable 10, 20, 30 years or more so ago might be considered really problematic nowadays. Case in point: Indiana Jones Raiders of the Lost Arc. I think it's a great movie, but viewed through the lens of today, it's got some problems. Same thing with Revenge of The Nerds.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Seconded.
Also, @M2Dave , I'd still like to hear who hear who these left-wing ideologues are that are on the same level as Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller, Sean Hannity, and the rest of the far-right-wing talking heads that use their platforms to perpetuate their fearmongering racist agendas on a constant and daily basis.

Also twice, I myself clarified to Haze that I fully believe in people being forgiven and allowed redemption as long as their intent and remorse is genuine. This isn't about someone who made a mistake 30 years ago, any more than my statement yesterday about Mike Z had anything to do with ALL men: this is about FChamp, who has artistic license as one of the most prolific fighting game players in history, chose to use his platform to make a horrible racist joke in the middle of the biggest race-related movement and protest since the Civil Rights movement in the 60's, and has doubled down on it repeatedly because he had to pay the consequences of doing something painfully stupid at the worst possible time for it. Whether he's a racist at heart or not doesn't change the fact that he, of all people, being in the scene he's in for as long as he's been and seeing what the culture is in 2020, should've known better. He didn't. He went for it anyway. Actions have consequences, and freedom of speech won't keep someone from getting thrown under the bus when they make that big of a mistake, especially when they have as long a track record of gross behavior as he does. Pride comes before the fall, and dude really thought he was too high on the mountain to get knocked down. Thems the breaks. I don't see logically how you make a fucking watermelon meme in the middle of everything going on right now and DON'T expect to get castigated for it unless you feel you're beyond reproach.

Also thrice, Bill Maher is the same guy who's STILL trying to make the case that Islam is a religion of war, while he's made his living in the country that's been at war for nearly its entire lifespan, so maybe he isn't the best person to cite as far as how "mainstream America" feels. Taking advice from Hollywood celebrities about the pros and cons of cancel culture seems like a terrible idea.

So, anyway. Those ideologues. Would love to know who I need to avoid on the other side.
All religions have dangerous ideologies. Some far more dangerous than others. But, that’s a completely different topic and discussion.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
First of all, black people have made tremendous progress since slavery and subsequent discriminatory laws. I have already referenced Dr. Thomas Sowell whose research suggests that black people in America have collectively acquired the most wealth in the shortest amount of time in human history. Second of all, no group has historically been "on the same footing", which is your surreptitious manner of advocating for equality of outcome, as any other group. Even individuals within the same group have had vastly different results. If white Americans are oppressing minorities in America, why is the highest household income for 8 out of 10 families non-white? In fact, South African Americans, which mostly consist of blacks, are listed as number four. Could you please stop race baiting for once?



The War on Poverty, Affordable Housing, and Affirmative Action are merely a couple of programs out of a dozen designed to "help play catch up." All programs have been proposed and implemented by people who share your political philosophy, yet you remain unsatisfied with the results.



Nobody in this thread is defending people like Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller, and Sean Hannity. However, people have defended Marxism and argued for extensive wealth distribution programs that are even outside of mainstream liberalism in America.

As far as extremism is concerned, if Bill Maher is insufficiently liberal for you, then you are probably a far-left ideologue.
They have made progress, and they have and can succeed, its just much harder. You wanna put your fingers in your ear and tune it out, but its true. Also, Im speaking on racism towards BLACK PEOPLE. Dont lump all minorities together. That list you linked has Black people in dead last. No one has ever been on equal footing you say? In a country where we cut said peoples legs out from under them? No kidding. At one point no one had cars, so we should just continue to go without cars, huh? Fuck progress, tradition is enough for some.

Also, Id argue with your examples, but if you do some research youll see that the guise of those acts was to help all, but actually it displaced many Black families. Gentrification is all it helped. Also, look up Black Wall Street if you STILL think Black People havent constantly been shoved back down the ladder here in America.


Also, just to clear things up, Im a white guy. I just want a better world around me for my Biracial Niece and Nephew who were unfortunate to be born in this time, in this area of our country, into my racist family. That means standing for them every time I see someone perpetuating anything but facts on this subject, of which I believe the powers that be strive to keep us far away from and separated about.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2019/08/07/472617/systemic-inequality-displacement-exclusion-segregation/

Heres a link for anyone that cares to see what the governments "help," has actually been over the centuries.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
That list you linked has Black people in dead last.
As I have stated before, I have no doubt that racism and discriminatory laws prevented blacks from acquiring wealth. Obviously, history matters because history has consequences on the present. However, racism is one out of a multitude of factors that explains why African Americans disproportionately live in poverty. Children in single-parent families, which liberals have no interest in indicating or discussing, is another. So if there is a child out of wedlock and dad or mom decides to leave because he or she is uncommitted, the family will live in poverty simply because there is one less paycheck to support the family. If you examine the household income for a married African-American family, a gap still exists but is significantly smaller. I am kindly asking people to analyze all data, think critically, and then make up their minds.

Also, Id argue with your examples, but if you do some research youll see that the guise of those acts was to help all, but actually it displaced many Black families.
I hope you realize that you are making the conservative argument that prominent black conservatives like Thomas Sowell and Larry Elder have been making. Sowell, who has a doctorate in economics, writes that "The black family, which had survived centuries of slavery and discrimination, began rapidly disintegrating in the liberal welfare state that subsidized unwed pregnancy and changed welfare from an emergency rescue to a way of life", according to the War on Poverty page on Wikipedia. So if you intend to make the case against the War on Poverty and other failed governmental programs and policies such as the the War on Drugs and military interventionism abroad, I am on your side.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
As I have stated before, I have no doubt that racism and discriminatory laws prevented blacks from acquiring wealth. Obviously, history matters because history has consequences on the present. However, racism is one out of a multitude of factors that explains why African Americans disproportionately live in poverty. Children in single-parent families, which liberals have no interest in indicating or discussing, is another. So if there is a child out of wedlock and dad or mom decides to leave because he or she is uncommitted, the family will live in poverty simply because there is one less paycheck to support the family. If you examine the household income for a married African-American family, a gap still exists but is significantly smaller. I am kindly asking people to analyze all data, think critically, and then make up their minds.



I hope you realize that you are making the conservative argument that prominent black conservatives like Thomas Sowell and Larry Elder have been making. Sowell, who has a doctorate in economics, writes that "The black family, which had survived centuries of slavery and discrimination, began rapidly disintegrating in the liberal welfare state that subsidized unwed pregnancy and changed welfare from an emergency rescue to a way of life", according to the War on Poverty page on Wikipedia. So if you intend to make the case against the War on Poverty and other failed governmental programs and policies such as the the War on Drugs and military interventionism abroad, I am on your side.
Do you think that African-Americans just love single-parent families, or have you considered that slavery intentionally dividing up the family unit and forcibly separating mothers from fathers (for hundreds of years) has had a ripple effect that, to some extent, still has implications today?

Have you considered that the inequality in both policing and sentencing leaves numerous African-American families without men, specifically, for longer periods of time?

The issue is that you keep trying to present things without context, when the context is actually what ties a lot of the individual statistics and issues together.

None of these metrics exist in a vacuum. Social considerations are interlinked, and abusing/disenfranchising an entire race of people for most of this nation’s history has lasting consequences.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Do you think that African-Americans just love single-parent families, or have you considered that slavery intentionally dividing up the family unit and forcibly separating mothers from fathers (for hundreds of years) has had a ripple effect that, to some extent, still has implications today?
"My great great grandfather has been taken away from his family during times of slavery, I should honor his legacy by abandoning my own child."
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I know, it's quite silly. Almost as silly as saying that slavery was the cause.
So if someone was violently and horrifically abused as a child, as an adult you’d just tell them “You’ve had all these years to get over it, why aren’t you over it yet?”

Makes sense.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
So if someone was violently and horrifically abused as a child, as an adult you’d just tell them “You’ve had all these years to get over it, why aren’t you over it yet?”

Makes sense.
If someone was violently and horrifically abused as a child, I probably won't tell him “You’ve had all these years to get over it, why aren’t you over it yet?”, but I sure as hell will tell the very same thing to that someone's great great grandson. I'm honestly amazed that I have to explain this.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
The issue is that you keep trying to present things without context, when the context is actually what ties a lot of the individual statistics and issues together.
Oh, the irony.

Speaking of context and statistics, you may want to look at the following Wikipedia page on the African-American family structure. The number of children born out of wedlock was significantly smaller before the civil rights movement (i.e., when one would expect the most racism). However, as you can see from the graph, the number increased dramatically after the War on Poverty.

Also... damn!


No comments from me yet. I have to read the story.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
If someone was violently and horrifically abused as a child, I probably won't tell him “You’ve had all these years to get over it, why aren’t you over it yet?”, but I sure as hell will tell the very same thing to that someone's great great grandson. I'm honestly amazed that I have to explain this.
That person's great grandson is still dealing with some of the same issues in different ways. It's not like a magical switch where as soon as slavery is over, the effects of systemically abusing and exploiting an entire race for hundreds of years vanish into the air.

You know when people talk about their family lineages and their great great great great grandfather in X country, and how proud they are? I can't do that, because I don't know who my ancestors were. There are no records. Someone, somewhere was taken away from their country, separated from their family history, and thrown into chains.

It's similar to how people who say "Oh African Americans are being confronted by police because they're just criminals!"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/banking-while-black-racism-trnd/index.html

Then explain why you'd arrest someone.. Not just question them, but actually arrest them, handcuff them, and take them in, for redeeming their own paycheck. It's probably his fault, right? He's just not over racism. It's not like there are lasting effects of it that affect the lives of millions of people to this day.

Come on. This makes no sense.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Oh, the irony.

Speaking of context and statistics, you may want to look at the following Wikipedia page on the African-American family structure. The number of children born out of wedlock was significantly smaller before the civil rights movement (i.e., when one would expect the most racism). However, as you can see from the graph, the number increased dramatically after the War on Poverty.

Also... damn!


No comments from me yet. I have to read the story.
You didn't read your own Wikipedia article. So I'm going to quote from it:

"The breakdown of the Black family was first brought to national attention in 1965 by sociologist and later Democratic Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, in the groundbreaking Moynihan Report (also known as "The Negro Family: The Case For National Action").[27] Moynihan's report made the argument that the relative absence of nuclear families (those having both a married father and mother present) in Black America would greatly hinder further Black socio-economic progress."

That was in 1965.

Then let's take a look at his report:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For_National_Action

And it says:
"Moynihan argued that the rise in black single-mother families was caused not by a lack of jobs, but by a destructive vein in ghetto culture, which could be traced to slavery times and continued discrimination in the American South under Jim Crow. Black sociologist E. Franklin Frazier had introduced that idea in the 1930s, but Moynihan was considered one of the first academics to defy conventional social-science wisdom about the structure of poverty. As he wrote later, "The work began in the most orthodox setting, the U.S. Department of Labor, to establish at some level of statistical conciseness what 'everyone knew': that economic conditions determine social conditions. Whereupon, it turned out that what everyone knew was evidently not so."

That's from your article, that you linked me to. You didn't even read it.
 

Marlow

Champion

M2Dave

Zoning Master
That's from your article, that you linked me to. You didn't even read it.
Yet you have apparently read even less...

"According to C. Eric Lincoln, the Negro family's "enduring sickness" is the absent father from the African-American family structure. C. Eric Lincoln also suggests that the implied American idea that poverty, teen pregnancy, and poor education performance has been the struggle for the African-American community is due to the absent African-American father. According to the Moynihan Report, the failure of a male dominated subculture, which only exist in the African-American culture, and reliance on the matriarchal control has been greatly present in the African-American family structure for the past three centuries. This absence of the father, or "mistreatment", has resulted in the African-American crime rate being higher than the National average, African-American drug addiction being higher than whites, and rates of illegitimacy being at least 25% or higher than whites. A family needs the presence of both parents for the youth to "learn the values and expectations of society."

C. Eric Lincoln was an African-American scholar who cited the Moynihan Report.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Yet you have apparently read even less...

"According to C. Eric Lincoln, the Negro family's "enduring sickness" is the absent father from the African-American family structure. C. Eric Lincoln also suggests that the implied American idea that poverty, teen pregnancy, and poor education performance has been the struggle for the African-American community is due to the absent African-American father. According to the Moynihan Report, the failure of a male dominated subculture, which only exist in the African-American culture, and reliance on the matriarchal control has been greatly present in the African-American family structure for the past three centuries. This absence of the father, or "mistreatment", has resulted in the African-American crime rate being higher than the National average, African-American drug addiction being higher than whites, and rates of illegitimacy being at least 25% or higher than whites. A family needs the presence of both parents for the youth to "learn the values and expectations of society."

C. Eric Lincoln was an African-American scholar who cited the Moynihan Report.
This is agreeing with what I posted, so I'm not sure what your point is. "The past three centuries" means slavery and the period thereafter.

He's arguing that African Americans are suffering the direct repercussions of having fathers taken from mothers and assigned to the field, mothers taken from fathers and sold off to different plantations to become 'house' slaves and raise the children, as well as to be concubines for the slave masters and raise their children.

You've just shot your own argument in the foot.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
@M2Dave I'm going to both link C. Eric Lincoln's article to you directly, and quote it here for you, since you didn't read it.

Here's his writing:
https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1965/11/28/98548756.html?pageNumber=429

And here's the pertinent quote:
"In fact, the blame rests on the horrors of the slave society which stripped the Negro male of his masculinity and condemned him to an eunuchlike existence in a culture which venerates masculine primacy".

You can't get away from it. You're making my point for me.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
This is agreeing with what I posted, so I'm not sure what your point is. "The past three centuries" means slavery and the period thereafter.

He's arguing that African Americans are suffering the direct repercussions of having fathers taken from mothers and assigned to the field, mothers taken from fathers and sold off to different plantations to become 'house' slaves and raise the children, as well as to be concubines for the slave masters and raise their children.

You've just shot your own argument in the foot.
Expert theories aside, you still have not explained why the number of children born out of wedlock was significantly lower before the civil rights movement. According to the chart, the number was about 20%. Today it is assumed to be 65%.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Is it a direct cause or the only cause? No, but I think it's pretty clear that slavery and racism have had ripple effects that have affected the black community throughout the decades, and still affects it today.
This is agreeing with what I posted, so I'm not sure what your point is. "The past three centuries" means slavery and the period thereafter.

He's arguing that African Americans are suffering the direct repercussions of having fathers taken from mothers and assigned to the field, mothers taken from fathers and sold off to different plantations to become 'house' slaves and raise the children, as well as to be concubines for the slave masters and raise their children.

You've just shot your own argument in the foot.
Shhhhh. Remember, people hate having to admit that they're wrong.

Also, I love how I'm apparently not worth responding to in spite of being factually right when it comes to there being no one noteworthy on the far left/liberal side of the argument who are as toxic and incendiary as there have been on the far-right/evangelical and conservative side since the Civil Rights Era when the parties essentially switched platforms and Nixon set the Southern Strategy in motion, but that's cool. Silence speaks volumes.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
@M2Dave Let me try to put this in terms you'll understand. You're from Croatia. Your parents (I believe) left there for Germany. Croatia has a very high incidence of poverty, and even still to this day, is well behind many European countries in terms of affluence.

Now, I could simply write "Croatians are lazy and just don't work as hard as the peoples of other European countries". That would be silly.

The truth is, not being from there, I don't understand the full repercussions of Croatia's history, of the war with the Serbs, and of what the aftermath of prolonged conflict has done to the economic and social landscape of that country. The difference between you and me is that I'm not going to watch 2 Youtube videos, declare myself an expert, and then start arguing with you about the country where you were born having no context to put things in, trying to string together random Wiki quotes without understanding their meaning.

I was born here and grew up here. What we're writing about here, isn't just an abstract concept or a collection of data -- these are parts of my childhood, what my parents experienced, my grandparents, etc. I have a very highly-accomplished family, and none of us need to make excuses for anything -- we're doing quite well. But I'm also not blind to the truth of what's going on around me. And the pain of that experience in America as an African-American is likely something you will never fully understand.