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TYM Killer Instinct Bi-Weekly Casuals

There's no reason to complain about Combat Assist; it gives literally no advantages over standard play. It's only a learning tool that isn't meant to be used forever.
I'd also like to further explain what I meant by this now that I've re-familiarized myself with the system.

Combat Assist doesn't give any advantages over standard play because it actually limits what your options are when you are using the easy inputs.
For example, when exclusively using Combat Assist all characters are reduced to only having access to 2 different Opener specials, Shadow Openers, Linkers, Shadow Linkers, and Enders even if your character normally has more than that.

That shouldn't matter too much, right? I'll have my characters' two best moves!
Nay, because many key options are not accessible via Combat Assist, such as Spinal's fireball ender which is core to his gameplan.

Hopefully this helps shed some light on the tool. It's legit training wheels that's meant to help new players get used to the combo structure.

Easy Ultras is probably the only actual advantage, if any, since sometimes an Ultra input can unintentionally become a different linker or ender than intended do to overlap in the controls, so just pressing f+PPP/KKK makes this never an issue, and you instantly win the match as soon as you ultra within the danger zone.
 
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Ck AeroVoid

Mk Casual, KI God
I'd also like to further explain what I meant by this now that I've re-familiarized myself with the system.

Combat Assist doesn't give any advantages over standard play because it actually limits what your options are when you are using the easy inputs.
For example, when exclusively using Combat Assist all characters are reduced to only having access to 2 different Opener specials, Shadow Openers, Linkers, Shadow Linkers, and Enders even if your character normally has more than that.

That shouldn't matter too much, right? I'll have my characters two best moves!
Nay, because many key options are not accessible via Combat Assist, such as Spinal's fireball ender which is core to his gameplan.

Hopefully this helps shed some light on the tool. It's legit training wheels that's meant to help new players get used to the combo structure.

Easy Ultras is probably the only actual advantage, if any, since sometimes an Ultra input can unintentionally become a different linker or ender than intended do to overlap in the controls, so just pressing f+PPP/KKK makes this never an issue, and you instantly win the match as soon as you ultra within the danger zone.
You just haven't dealt with unreachable spammers yet. Like gargos on challenging Shadow Lord's difficulty
 

Juxtapose

Master
I reinvited you when @Trustful_Whale was finished installing and @B W1zZ joined about the same time so the 3 of us played another marathon until about 5am this morning lol

I actually invited everyone here i think but nobody else joined
I was playing Halo 2: Anniversary Co-Op Campaign with my dad, and then Halo 3 PC Flight (the beta test) which I got in and only lasts a week.

I have been cracking out on this game non stop since it finished downloading. My gamertag is djdeftmonk add me next time u guys go at it. I’m super rusty since I haven’t played in several years but damn this is fun!
Followed.

What controller are you guys using?
Hori Fighting Commander for Xbox One. It's a fantastic pad.
 

Juxtapose

Master
I'd also like to further explain what I meant by this now that I've re-familiarized myself with the system.

Combat Assist doesn't give any advantages over standard play because it actually limits what your options are when you are using the easy inputs.
For example, when exclusively using Combat Assist all characters are reduced to only having access to 2 different Opener specials, Shadow Openers, Linkers, Shadow Linkers, and Enders even if your character normally has more than that.

That shouldn't matter too much, right? I'll have my characters' two best moves!
Nay, because many key options are not accessible via Combat Assist, such as Spinal's fireball ender which is core to his gameplan.

Hopefully this helps shed some light on the tool. It's legit training wheels that's meant to help new players get used to the combo structure.

Easy Ultras is probably the only actual advantage, if any, since sometimes an Ultra input can unintentionally become a different linker or ender than intended do to overlap in the controls, so just pressing f+PPP/KKK makes this never an issue, and you instantly win the match as soon as you ultra within the danger zone.
What I like about Combo Assist though, is that even with it on, you don't have to use it as actually doing the inputs for a move overrides it.

I tend to drop quarter circle motion a lot, it's just a limitation of my own, so I use it for more clean execution mid-string, and for Ultras, but otherwise, it's all me. I think it's a handy little tool with legit limitations, so it's a trade off.
 
What I like about Combo Assist though, is that even with it on, you don't have to use it as actually doing the inputs for a move overrides it.

I tend to drop quarter circle motion a lot, it's just a limitation of my own, so I use it for more clean execution mid-string, and for Ultras, but otherwise, it's all me. I think it's a handy little tool with legit limitations, so it's a trade off.
This is precisely what makes the Combat Assist such a great learning tool as it is actually very much like real life training wheels; you can switch between relying on the wheels or trying to ride the bike normally in the same way you described using the tool. Slightly nerfs the player in exchange for easier learning, but also gently guides them into ditching the wheels once they're ready, and is encouraged for enjoying the game fully.

Also it would be extremely difficult to perceive whether your opponent is using Combat Assist or not unless they never did any normal inputs at all which is super unlikely. Hands down the most well designed "easy mode" control tool in any fighting game.
 

DeftMonk

Warrior
I'd also like to further explain what I meant by this now that I've re-familiarized myself with the system.

Combat Assist doesn't give any advantages over standard play because it actually limits what your options are when you are using the easy inputs.
For example, when exclusively using Combat Assist all characters are reduced to only having access to 2 different Opener specials, Shadow Openers, Linkers, Shadow Linkers, and Enders even if your character normally has more than that.

That shouldn't matter too much, right? I'll have my characters' two best moves!
Nay, because many key options are not accessible via Combat Assist, such as Spinal's fireball ender which is core to his gameplan.

Hopefully this helps shed some light on the tool. It's legit training wheels that's meant to help new players get used to the combo structure.

Easy Ultras is probably the only actual advantage, if any, since sometimes an Ultra input can unintentionally become a different linker or ender than intended do to overlap in the controls, so just pressing f+PPP/KKK makes this never an issue, and you instantly win the match as soon as you ultra within the danger zone.
I didn’t mess with the auto combo thing since the inputs are pretty easy and give lots of buffering time.... I assume it’s like most other games where u just hit buttons Willy nilly and it makes the timing and directional pad inputs for appropriate combos to come out. Does that mean sometimes it does a manual for u?

if it does that’s actually a pretty big advantage since manual timing is quite strict and is only one hit so to break it you pretty much have to make a guess.
 

Ck AeroVoid

Mk Casual, KI God
I didn’t mess with the auto combo thing since the inputs are pretty easy and give lots of buffering time.... I assume it’s like most other games where u just hit buttons Willy nilly and it makes the timing and directional pad inputs for appropriate combos to come out. Does that mean sometimes it does a manual for u?

if it does that’s actually a pretty big advantage since manual timing is quite strict and is only one hit so to break it you pretty much have to make a guess.
Button mash
Also I swear moves go out faster (normals)
 
I didn’t mess with the auto combo thing since the inputs are pretty easy and give lots of buffering time.... I assume it’s like most other games where u just hit buttons Willy nilly and it makes the timing and directional pad inputs for appropriate combos to come out. Does that mean sometimes it does a manual for u?

if it does that’s actually a pretty big advantage since manual timing is quite strict and is only one hit so to break it you pretty much have to make a guess.
The in game command list actually gives instructions on how combat assist works and breaks it down into Openers, Linkers, and Enders. So basically pressing f+button will get you the easy mode for whatever corresponding move you're going for.

So if I hit someone with a cancelable normal I can press f+MP to get my character's easy special assigned to that function (opener), whatever it may be, then I can press any button I want to get the corresponding auto-double or manual which is the same as playing standard. I can then press f+button to go into a corresponding linker, then another auto or manual, etc. Finally ending combos is done with f+HP or f+HK.
Combat Assist will not do manuals for you, they will always be... Well, manual.

Button mash
Also I swear moves go out faster (normals)
Mashing is a bad idea regardless of which control feature you're using, and no they don't come out faster.
 

Ck AeroVoid

Mk Casual, KI God
The in game command list actually gives instructions on how combat assist works and breaks it down into Openers, Linkers, and Enders. So basically pressing f+button will get you the easy mode for whatever corresponding move you're going for.

So if I hit someone with a cancelable normal I can press f+MP to get my character's easy special assigned to that function, whatever it may be, then I can press any button I want to get the corresponding auto-double or manual which is the same as playing standard. Combat Assist will not do manuals for you, they will always be... Well, manual.


Mashing is a bad idea regardless of which control feature you're using, and no they don't come out faster.
Then people I play are the best mashers in. The world.(close friends lvl 50
 

Ck AeroVoid

Mk Casual, KI God
I don't really understand your responses, are you trying to purposely miss the point or something?
I stopped playing for a bit
I play my first set against a lvl 50 I was 37
I murdered him every time
I do just fine
I don't win combo assist idk why
And I am good at this game
It is different for me

Don't get me wrong it is a good learning tool but my cousin and I did an experiment. (He is a decent player)
Combo assist matches I lost against him
All of them

So no I see your point I am speaking from experience:
Since launch I have played KI
 
I stopped playing for a bit
I play my first set against a lvl 50 I was 37
I murdered him every time
I do just fine
I don't win combo assist idk why
And I am good at this game
It is different for me

Don't get me wrong it is a good learning tool but my cousin and I did an experiment. (He is a decent player)
Combo assist matches I lost against him
All of them

So no I see your point I am speaking from experience:
Since launch I have played KI
None of that makes any sense at all. Literally zero.
 

The Slaj Jazz

TIckle my sweet salty nips
Does Xinputmapper thing work with Windows games? I tried to add KI through steam so I could use a certain controller but can't seem to figure it out
 
Hopefully this helps shed some light on the tool. It's legit training wheels that's meant to help new players get used to the combo structure.
"Training wheels" is exactly the metaphor I like to use.

Training wheels help you learn, but competitively they slow you down. No one who is an actual competent cyclist would complain about one of his or her competitors using training wheels.

If I thought combo assist gave me even an 0.001% better chance winning against my opponent I would use them every single game. But they don't.
 

Juxtapose

Master
The in game command list actually gives instructions on how combat assist works and breaks it down into Openers, Linkers, and Enders. So basically pressing f+button will get you the easy mode for whatever corresponding move you're going for.

So if I hit someone with a cancelable normal I can press f+MP to get my character's easy special assigned to that function (opener), whatever it may be, then I can press any button I want to get the corresponding auto-double or manual which is the same as playing standard. I can then press f+button to go into a corresponding linker, then another auto or manual, etc. Finally ending combos is done with f+HP or f+HK.
Combat Assist will not do manuals for you, they will always be... Well, manual.


Mashing is a bad idea regardless of which control feature you're using, and no they don't come out faster.
One correction for the above: once you're in the combo sequence, you no longer need to hold Forward to use a linker.

For myself, I do my own Opener (let's say Cyber Dash with Fulgore), and then I rely on the Combo Assist system to not have to do directional inputs and I simply press the various punch/kick strengths that I want to keep the combo going. I'll adjust the strengths based on the tendencies I see my opponent trying to break. If they lock out, I stick to Heavy's or Shadow Moves. I then manually input my own Ender.

I also like how you actually use the Heavy buttons in the system to do the Heavy moves, instead of having to hold Medium Punch or Kick for the Heavy.

I do mix in Manuals sometimes as well, and no @DeftMonk , Combo Assist will not perform manuals. You can fully read how it works on the official blog post here.

What blows my mind with Combo Assist is the level of hate it seems to get, despite being such a well designed system. The only thing it's really doing is removing the need for inputs in the combo system, thus reducing drops. If used fully, it's actually quite limiting as a combo will be predictable, there won't be any manuals included, it only permits two kinds of enders (and typically not the damage one, and most players relying on it fully won't know how to capitalize on a launch or wall splat), and if you don't have a fundamental understanding of the game's combo system, you're either going to be ending your combos far too early or you'll regularly blow them out! Button mashers will blow out all the time because they're not controlling the combo, they're simply mashing with no thought for the system and no strategy.

Combo Assist also does not natively allow you to use your character's Combo Trait, you need to manually hold Back to do so. This part of the system doesn't seem well documented, for some reason, but for, say, Jago and his Around the World trait, that's quite limiting.

As the other player, all the rules are still in place, and you can still Break and Shadow Counter any Combo Assist combo.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
I never heard of an input wrapper before but i want two of them.
There are couple out there. Steam has a built in one. It can be a little weird to figure out. It's probably the most mature and option heavy. You can create game specific custom mappings, or turn it off. You can do things like map your dpad to the analog stick, or really anything to anything. Even end up with wild stuff like pressing and releasing configured to trigger differing things, but I'm not totally clear on what all that stuff is for. I initially used it for a bit in Tekken to map my board's analog only output to the dpad so it would work on menus (because Tekken you can apparently play with either dpad or analog, but the main menu demands the dpad :| )

It's obviously limited to Steam use (which doesn't help you here for KI) and they can create overhead for latency, so you got to watch out for that.

I didn't think I'd ever notice the overhead people talked about on the Steam one, until Windows updates or something jacked up how games were seeing the controller I used. I turned it totally off and noticed things felt snapper, even in menus. I eventually switched controller boards, and was able to just keep it off. I now echo the warning other's have made about it.

There are some that supposedly have very little overhead, but it's something to watch out for. My reactions aren't near as good as yours, so I'd expect you'd be pretty sensitive to that sort of thing. Others also seemed to work for specific things, like DS4's mapped to keyboards only. So, unnecessarily long FYI message here.