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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

ruthlezz97

ruthlezz97

Noob
B31 still counts as a launcher even tho it isnt,what is wrong with NRS? They gave Storm Cell this so called fix to prevent this from happening and nothing changed.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Champion
Not great, but not the end of the world. B12 is probably the more important string anyways. Guess we'll just need to lab some options for some better B31 options if the opponent is going to break.

One question, I know the CPU can breakaway early but is this something human players will be able to do routinely? Just curious what kind of gap is exists before they get hit by Storm Cell.
 
Black Chapters

Black Chapters

Legend of Legaia Main
So Lies and Darkness is still a shit sandwich.

Tragic, and they did nothing his other moves.

But I guess we can worry about those later.

When is he getting a damn Brutality?
 
Marlow

Marlow

Champion
So UltraDavid is going over the patch notes character by character on the UltraChen Twitch stream right now. He's on Liu Kang right now, so I'm guessing he'll get to Raiden in the next 10-20 minutes or so, if anyone is interested.
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
I'm in the lab currently, here are my findings on PC:

  • "B12 now has 6 less recovery frames, 5 less blockstun frames, can now be Kombo Attack cancelled on block, and its cancel frame occurs 1 frame earlier"
    • B12 is still -8 on block.
    • Can now cancel into B121+3 on block: a 9% throw.
  • "B121+3 now has 3 less startup frames, 1 more active frame, 4 less recovery frames on miss, and now hits as a throw"
    • Throw whiffs on crouch blocking Sub-Zero (28 recovery frames on whiff).
  • "Adjusted the hit regions of F1, F11 and F112."
    • F1 now hits at the start-of-match distance. 95% sure it didn't pre-patch. This seems like a significant hitbox improvement.
    • Hard to judge the significance of F11 and F112 hitbox improvements.
  • "The 2nd hit of B2 now has increased block pushback"
    • Point blank: Leaves you at this distance:17027
    • Max range: Leaves you at this distance (very slight difference from point blank distance): 17028
  • "F2 now has 5 more blockstun frames with increased block pushback"
    • +2 on block on Xbox and PS4 (not on PC for some reason).
  • "Adjusted the hit regions of 321 and it now has 5 more blockstun frames"
    • +6 on block now from +1 on block.
  • "B31 can now be Kombo Attack cancelled on block or miss"
    • You can now make B312+4 come out on block and whiff.
    • B312+4 does not come out if B31 is flawless blocked.
  • "B312+4 now hits mid, has 1 more recovery frame, 5 more blockstun frames with increased block pushback, and has a different grounded hit reaction"
    • If you miss the B3, but hit the 1, then the 2+4 part no longer whiffs. It used to whiff pre-patch.
    • -16 on block, leaves you at slightly further than maximum J3 distance. Punishable by Sub-Zero's slide.
    • Opponent cannot jump out between the 1 and 2+4.
  • "F32 now hits overhead and has increased block pushback"
    • Point blank & max range (not much difference) - Leaves you at this range, which is juuust outside of B2 distance: 17029
  • "BF1 (projectile) now has 27 startup frames (down from 28), 5 more blockstun frames with increased block pushback, 2 more recovery frames on hit, 1 more recovery frames on block, 2 less recovery frames on miss and increased the window for the cancel into Amplify"
    • Used to be -11, now -7 when I put frame data on.
    • Delay is fairly long. When the BF1 lightning bolt leaves the screen, then you can't cancel it anymore.
  • "BF1 Amplify now has 1 less startup frame and has 5 more blockstun frames with increased block pushback"
    • 0 on block point blank.
    • +6 on block fullscreen.
    • +2 on block from round-start distance. Leaves you just inside of F4 range.
  • "The first 2 hits of DB2 (Storm Cell) no longer allow opponent to Breakaway"
    • Works as advertised.
    • Off of B31: Short and Delayed Breakway in the lab lets the opponent use their breakaway before Storm Cell can connect. Late Breakaway lets Storm Cell connect before they can break.
    • B12~DB2 Amp, J2, D2 is now an unbreakable 287 damage. For reference, a full combo does 311 damage.
    • Can connect DB2 Amp into DB2 amp for unbreakable damage.
      • B12~DB2 Amp, 4~Fatal Blow is 505 unbreakable damage.
      • B12~DB2 Amp, DB2 Amp, 4~Fatal Blow is 562 unbreakable damage.
  • "BF3 (Electric Fly) Amplify Krushing Blow travel distance requirement slightly reduced"
    • Very significant change! Minimum range I got it to work at: 17030
      For reference, this is the distance you needed to be at pre-patch (fullscreen): 17031
  • "DB2 (Summon Lightning) now breaks armor, has 11 startup frames (down from 14), and has an increased hit region when the opponent is in a combo"
    • Works as advertised.
    • B2 KB, DB2 does not connect
    • Raijin: B12, DB4 Amp, DB2 (armor break) gives 278 unbreakable damage (fast breakaway). Not easy to connect though.
    • Truth and Light: B12, BF3 Amp, DB2 (armor break) gives 260 unbreakable damage (fast breakaway).
    • Wasn't able to squeeze any other moves into the previously mentioned combos.
    • 11-frame startup change makes all combos ending in DB2 easier to connect.
 
Last edited:
Darth Mao

Darth Mao

Your Tech is Mine! #buffRaiden
ExpectFlames said:
I think d2 was the only thing I could get it off on lol
Click to expand...
ExpectFlames said:
I think d2 was the only thing I could get it off on lol
Click to expand...
Some examples:
3,2~db2 ex, dash s4~bf1
263.70

3,2~db2 ex, dash s4~Fatal Blow
525.92

3,2~db2 ex; db2 ex; dash s4~Fatal Blow
582.17

ruthlezz97 said:
Anyone notice that B12 1+3 doesnt work on 95% of cast? They are crouch blocking and 1+3 just whiffs. Anyone care to tell NRS to fix this shit
Click to expand...
Its a gimmick tool, he ins't a braindead mixup machine.

Gooberking said:
What looks like happens is it can wiff if they blocked the initial b12 low. If they blocked it high, they can't just transition to blocking low and cause it to wiff on reaction to you doing b12. I got to work that way on about three characters I could also get it to wiff on so far, so I'm thinking that's just the thing about it
Click to expand...
It's possible to standing block b1, duck during 2 and punish the throw (or OS to punish Storm Cell). Maybe this toll is better for Raijin, I don't know.

Zviko said:
Storm Cell buff didn't help his B31 string. He can still get full combo punished because they can breakaway faster than Storm Cell comes out. Disappointed.
Click to expand...
b3~Storm Cell launchers and don't Break.
 
ruthlezz97

ruthlezz97

Noob
DDutchguy said:
I'm in the lab currently, here are my findings on PC. Can you guys do me a favor and check B12 and F2 on block, on Xbox or PS4? Those moves seem unchanged on PC even though the other patch changes are there.

  • "B12 now has 6 less recovery frames, 5 less blockstun frames, can now be Kombo Attack cancelled on block, and its cancel frame occurs 1 frame earlier"
    • B12 is still -8 on block when I put frame data on.
    • B121+3 can now come out on block, but not on whiff.
  • "B121+3 now has 3 less startup frames, 1 more active frame, 4 less recovery frames on miss, and now hits as a throw"
    • Indeed, B121+3 is a 9% throw that comes out on block.
    • Whiffs on crouch blocking Sub-Zero (28 recovery frames on whiff).
  • "Adjusted the hit regions of F1, F11 and F112."
    • F1 now hits at the start-of-match distance. 95% sure it didn't pre-patch. This seems like a significant hitbox improvement.
    • Hard to judge the significance of F11 and F112 hitbox improvements.
  • "The 2nd hit of B2 now has increased block pushback"
  • "F2 now has 5 more blockstun frames with increased block pushback"
    • On PC, still -3 and with no pushback. Maybe it's different on Xbox/PS4?
  • "Adjusted the hit regions of 321 and it now has 5 more blockstun frames"
    • +6 on block now from +1 on block.
  • "B31 can now be Kombo Attack cancelled on block or miss"
    • You can now make B312+4 come out on block and whiff.
  • "B312+4 now hits mid, has 1 more recovery frame, 5 more blockstun frames with increased block pushback, and has a different grounded hit reaction"
    • If you miss the B3, but hit the 1, then the 2+4 part no longer whiffs. It used to whiff pre-patch.
    • -16 on block, leaves you at slightly further than maximum J3 distance. Punishable by Sub-Zero's slide.
    • Opponent cannot jump out between the 1 and 2+4.
  • "F32 now hits overhead and has increased block pushback"
    • Point blank & max range (not much difference) - Leaves you at this range, which is juuust outside of B2 distance: View attachment 17029
  • "BF1 (projectile) now has 27 startup frames (down from 28), 5 more blockstun frames with increased block pushback, 2 more recovery frames on hit, 1 more recovery frames on block, 2 less recovery frames on miss and increased the window for the cancel into Amplify"
    • Used to be -11, now -7 when I put frame data on.
    • Delay is fairly long. When the BF1 lightning bolt leaves the screen, then you can't cancel it anymore.
  • "BF1 Amplify now has 1 less startup frame and has 5 more blockstun frames with increased block pushback"
    • 0 on block point blank.
    • +6 on block fullscreen.
    • +2 on block from round-start distance. Leaves you just inside of F4 range.
  • "The first 2 hits of DB2 (Storm Cell) no longer allow opponent to Breakaway"
    • Works as advertised.
    • Off of B31: Short and Delayed Breakway in the lab lets the opponent use their breakaway before Storm Cell can connect. Late Breakaway lets Storm Cell connect before they can break.
    • B12~DB2 Amp, J2, D2 is now an unbreakable 287 damage. For reference, a full combo does 311 damage.
  • "BF3 (Electric Fly) Amplify Krushing Blow travel distance requirement slightly reduced"
  • "DB2 (Summon Lightning) now breaks armor, has 11 startup frames (down from 14), and has an increased hit region when the opponent is in a combo"
    • Works as advertised.
    • B2 KB, DB2 does not connect
    • Raijin: B12, DB4 Amp, DB2 (armor break) gives 278 unbreakable damage (fast breakaway). Not easy to connect though.
    • Truth and Light: B12, BF3 Amp, DB2 (armor break) gives 260 unbreakable damage (fast breakaway).
    • Wasn't able to squeeze any other moves into the previously mentioned combos.
    • 11-frame startup change makes all combos ending in DB2 easier to connect.
Click to expand...
Do you think B12 1+3 whiffing on block is intended or no?
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
DDutchguy said:
Likely. Otherwise you'd be able to play as Raijin and have a constant 50/50 off of B12 by using B12~DF2 or B121+3.
Click to expand...
its not that good though. people usually will eat the throw and on any right guess you get punished hard. i think this mixup is disadvantageous for raiden.
 
DarksydeDash

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
kabelfritz said:
its not that good though. people usually will eat the throw and on any right guess you get punished hard. i think this mixup is disadvantageous for raiden.
Click to expand...
Thunderwave benefits from it the most because the teleport looks like the grab. Also universally don't forget about electric fly cancels.

Raijin still gets df2 after b12.

Truth and Light gets Lightning Rod safely and that's pretty big
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
I wonder if B312+4 coming out on block now is a big deal.
  • It leaves you just outside of deep J3 distance, which is reaaaaally far away. Even at -16 on block this could be useful.
  • Opponent can't jump out between the 1 and 2+4!
Do note that if B31 is flawless blocked, the 2+4 doesn't come out.
 
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