Bottom 5 Character Project

[Enenra]

Shit yeah he is.

I still think it's funny he was below Noob a few months ago.

By the way, are we basing Sub Zero right now as the turtle hiding behind ice clones, or the rush down Sub that gang bangs you in the corner? Just wondering, because one play style is how you lose and one is how you win.

 

[DanCock]

man im still trying to figure out why in the hell is subzero so unsafe after a fucking clone?? that is one of the stupidest thing in the game.. he should be able to block right after instantly.

 

[Enenra]

Same reason Noobs zoning leaves him negative when he was designed to zone

NRS be trollin

 

[GGA soonk]

I agree, Dan. Dumbest shit.

 

[quandaghost]

well i guess for the same reason scorpion can get full combo from full screen if he misses a spear.

 

[16 Bit]

Why should Sub-Zero be able to clone without any consequence?

 

[NYCj360]

I still dont agree with Cyber Sub being unviable in tournament. Sure his matchups against Kabal, Sub, kitana are harder than usual. But the character is way better than he seems on paper. Hes not the best nor top 5, but hes not just some gimmicky character. Everyone talks about him losing on paper but i dont see mch of his terribleness in tournament in the first place.

 

[quandaghost]

sub-zero needs to be punished after that clone i mean hell why should he just be able to do them as he pleases which already does anyway and not have the opponent to have a way to show him he cant just do em to do em. netherealm did the right thing hell he already freezing us longer

 

[Z-911-Z]

Sub-Zero's ex clone should have the clone superman the opponent into the corner.

 

[GGA soonk]

Why should Sub-Zero be able to clone without any consequence?

Fan Toss - -2
Fan Toss (air) - ~-2
Cutting Fan - 0
Square Boost - ~-5
Pretty Kick - -4
Fake Out Kick - 0 (there is a bug with this move that gives +8 advantage at times)

I wonder.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

sub-zero needs to be punished after that clone i mean hell why should he just be able to do them as he pleases which already does anyway and not have the opponent to have a way to show him he cant just do em to do em. netherealm did the right thing hell he already freezing us longer

SZ gets blown up by most of the cast because of low hit box making the 2 whiff. So he can't pressure those characters once he gets in their face. There are only a handful of the cast that do not have armor now, and of those, i'd say maybe 1 can't teleport. That is how you blow him up. See past the gimmicks and smoke and mirrors, and don't jump into clones.

BTW, he can clone in block strings for free yeah, but if you react to a clone, most moves beat it at certain ranges. Keep that in mind.

 

[16 Bit]

Fan Toss - -2
Fan Toss (air) - ~-2
Cutting Fan - 0
Square Boost - ~-5
Pretty Kick - -4
Fake Out Kick - 0 (there is a bug with this move that gives +8 advantage at times)

I wonder.

All of these moves have consequences. Some of them severe and universal for the whole cast.

 

[Red Son]

I think that If sub zero could clone without being punished, all of his normals, that could be canceled in to the clones, would be safe too, he would gain space, plus safe, plus a clone or a whiffed clone, that builds meter.

I think he's fine XD

 

[quandaghost]

i mean i already just stay as far as possible form him and zone him but he really needs to have consequences for those clones every character in the game has consequences for using their moves he deserves them as well

 

[GGA soonk]

All of these moves have consequences. Some of them severe and universal for the whole cast.

You have it so tough, 16 bit.

 

[16 Bit]

You have it so tough, 16 bit.

This reply makes no sense. I wasn't asking for any of those moves to be safer.

PS: THIS GUY PLAYS HITBOX KABAL

 

[quandaghost]

scorpion and sektor face those same problems and they find ways around it as pointed out in the other post sektors normals whiff high alot and yet they find ways to make their character work for them sub-zero is just fine as he is. I'm biased against him in this game and he's my fav mk character. i feel like there is almost no need to walk forward on sub, he ain't got a real fb so he cant chip you without block strings or slide, the slide is hella punishable, i can d1 out of any pressure and jump out and continue my zone. i just feel like he has to do alot more than the average rushdown character. maybe im wrong but i just feel that way.

 

[GGA soonk]

This reply makes no sense. I wasn't asking for any of those moves to be safer.

PS: THIS GUY PLAYS HITBOX KABAL

I PLAY HITBOX SUB ZERO, TOO, YET NOBODY SAYS SHIT.

You think hitbox is so easy, go get one. Crying about hitbox is old news.

 

[CaliMaestro]

This is so hard. I avoided this thread for some time now to try and think this through. 2 or 3 months after the game was released, I believed this to be the most balanced fighter I ever played. After seeing the EVO top 8 (and unfortunately having to sit through the Tekken top 8 in person) I believed it even more. Now, after trying to go through this "Bottom 5" mental exercise, I absolutely believe this is the most balanced fighter out there.

So with that said (and it pains me to do this) -

1 - Jade (put Jade in the hands of Easy Fresh though... watch out, he is a beast with her!)

2 - Nightwolf (never lost to him in a tournament before, but as far as online goes... LGuille, beastly with him!)

3 - Stryker (again, a character I've never lost to in a tournament, but I just want to say... If you think Stryker doesn't have what it takes, play a few matches against OnlineTony.)

4 - Sindel (I don't think she is nearly as bad as people make her out to be, but as a Mileena player, I recognize that she has some really lop-sided matches.)

5 - Sub Zero (this really pains me. If it weren't for a few players in specific - Tom, Denzel, Shory - he would have been lower in my list. I feel awful that I'm even naming him in this list. He has what it takes to make it to Top 8 major after major... but I'm basing my list on my tournament experience, and I have had no problem with Sub Zero so far. That said, I recognize that in the hands of the right player, in particular the aforementioned people, he can be devastating.)

In all honesty, I feel that Jade sits at the bottom, while everyone from #2 and upward has what it takes to win. I've never felt so bad about making a post on TYM.

 

[Red Son]

i mean i already just stay as far as possible form him and zone him but he really needs to have consequences for those clones every character in the game has consequences for using their moves he deserves them as well

I totally agree with you.

The point is that in the MK9 there's just bottom 3, there's no bottom 5, Sub Zero, Sindel, Kano, and whatever, is playable.
The only 3 characters that are not playable is Sheeva, Stryker and Jade. Any other character in the game have great potencial.

 

[CaliMaestro]

I totally agree with you.
The only 3 characters that are not playable is Sheeva, Stryker and Jade. Any other character in the game have great potencial.

Respectfully Disagree.

 

[M2Dave]

As I've said before, Sub Zero players will not stop asking for buffs until Sub Zero can simply walk every character into the corner OR Sub Zero's opponent is placed in the corner at the start of every fight.

On another note, I think NRS has botched the EX moves in this game. They ought to be a lot more useful. I would have no problem if Sub Zero's EX clone, for example, broke armor and voided the proximity rule.

 

[GGA soonk]

scorpion and sektor face those same problems and they find ways around it as pointed out in the other post sektors normals whiff high alot and yet they find ways to make their character work for them sub-zero is just fine as he is. I'm biased against him in this game and he's my fav mk character. i feel like there is almost no need to walk forward on sub, he ain't got a real fb so he cant chip you without block strings or slide, the slide is hella punishable, i can d1 out of any pressure and jump out and continue my zone. i just feel like he has to do alot more than the average rushdown character. maybe im wrong but i just feel that way.

Sektor has missiles coming out from all directions, a teleport, and a flamethrower. Scorpion has a teleport, a spear that's good for aa/anti zoning, a safe low special, and an unblockable. Sub zero has 3 specials worth using: ice blast, slide, and clone. His other special is completely useless. GOD FORBID any of his specials are actually safe to use.

If you like work, use SZ.

 

[16 Bit]

I PLAY HITBOX SUB ZERO, TOO, YET NOBODY SAYS SHIT.

You think hitbox is so easy, go get one. Crying about hitbox is old news.

I did not cry. I merely pointed out the hypocrisy.

Just because Kitana has moves like Ass that probably should have more recovery doesn't mean Sub-Zero deserves to be able to put an ice clone on screen without recovery.

 

[GGA soonk]

As I've said before, Sub Zero players will not stop asking for buffs until Sub Zero can simply walk every character into the corner OR Sub Zero's opponent is placed in the corner at the start of every fight.

On another note, I think NRS has botched the EX moves in this game. They ought to be a lot more useful. I would have no problem if Sub Zero's EX clone, for example, broke armor and voided the proximity rule.

Not asking for a buff, just pointing out how the game is and why SZ isn't as useful as he used to be and why he won't be used as often anymore.