Spawn General Discussion Thread

[Professor Oak]

Dunno why people are shitting on V1 lmao It's acutally pretty good.



This is not true. You have BF3, DB1/DB1 cancel and if you hit 34 at max range it combos into BF2, being the most meterless damage you can get from 34, in V1.



He doesn't need Necroblast, the variation is fine as it is. The guns ain't bad at all, DB1 has decent range for it's uses, BF1 it will always connect the AMP version even if the 1st hit tags the opponent. BF1 gives the best meterless damage out of B12 24 and pushes them away.

By playing this variation, in time, you'll play at the ranges for his best normals - B1/F2/3/F4

This variation isn't meant to be zoning, in fact, Spawn isn't a zoning character.

V1 has more damage than V3 and DB <3

All his variations are good imho I just prefer V1. Been rocking it on KL!

I really hate to argue, but I dont see it.

Also, you guys know that b12 24-ender isnt the optimal, right? Its b12, f23-ender, and there is no logical reason to send them full screen with guns so restand is the optimal ender? Meaning you shouldnt be using guns in combos meaning they must be useful for pressure or zoning, right?

Well bf1 will connect at certain ranges off strings, however the amp is a high that WILL be ducked and punished, same as the low's amp. Without the amp they are unsafe yet there are ranges you can be pseudo-safe vs characters with no fast forward progressing moves. You reset neutral for the 34 game at best, with nothing but bf2 and bf3 to keep that safe and effective or more guns to risk your life bar, I guess. Im not saying there arent things you can do, Im saying it all leads to very little reward and its very risky and it may seem good on paper but most people already know the MU. Amp guns being a high is really awful. bf2 and bf3 are outclassed by other variations moves and they are what youll be using to try to make this variation work.

Zoning? The guns work at just inside 3/4 screen. He has nothing full screen. The bf2 parry is good on read for single hitting projectiles, but thats it. bf1 in v2 and v3 is literally a better zoning tool than both guns. So, absolutely not a zoning variation, I agree. But also not a mix heavy var, not a grappler for sure, no fast buttons for rush, what is his identity? Another classic Nrs "Mid range footsie character"tm?

He gets three added abilities in v3, all unsafe, all situational at best, all out classed by another move.

I wanna be convinced Im wrong. Give me some setplay youre using, tell me how you use low shots. Max range shoot their toes for the 2% chip? Like I do not get how you can think its okay. I was only interested in V1 and after a week I literally just gave up. I played Dvorah at release when she was buns, Im used to a struggle, but Spawn V1 is actually not competitive IMO.

 

[Professor Oak]

Upon further testing, you can duck the high gunshot off 34 can be ducked at all ranges.

 

[Nevan_PTF]

Yes, Spawn is your another mid range character. No tools to considered a zoner, like Shang for example, no fast normals to be a rushdown character too.

Also, you guys know that b12 24-ender isnt the optimal, right? Its b12, f23-ender, and there is no logical reason to send them full screen with guns so restand is the optimal ender? Meaning you shouldnt be using guns in combos meaning they must be useful for pressure or zoning, right?

I know that but its also easy to drop your ender with F23, so I use 24 for being consistent thats all.

B12 24 BF1 is 26% and ending with DB3 is 24% - it's the most meterless damage you can get, off B1, and it's good to close out a round and/or pushing them away when you have the lifelead. It's an option, not mandatory.

I wasn't talking about using BF1 after strings, like 34 when I can 34 BF2, which hits from max 34 range as a combo, or I use BF3 AMP if they block it. I was talking about using it on the neutral, most vs characters with no reversals to contest it or other situations.

We are opposites then, I got into V3 right away, found it boring and started to invest on V1. No regrets.

 

[Professor Oak]

Yes, Spawn is your another mid range character. No tools to considered a zoner, like Shang for example, no fast normals to be a rushdown character too.



I know that but its also easy to drop your ender with F23, so I use 24 for being consistent thats all.

B12 24 BF1 is 26% and ending with DB3 is 24% - it's the most meterless damage you can get, off B1, and it's good to close out a round and/or pushing them away when you have the lifelead. It's an option, not mandatory.

I wasn't talking about using BF1 after strings, like 34 when I can 34 BF2, which hits from max 34 range as a combo, or I use BF3 AMP if they block it. I was talking about using it on the neutral, most vs characters with no reversals to contest it or other situations.

We are opposites then, I got into V3 right away, found it boring and started to invest on V1. No regrets.

Oh, I get it now, youre saying you LIKE variation 1 better, me too, its just far worse.

 

[Nevan_PTF]

I don't find that bad in all honesty, I've played worst characters before hehe

 

[Trustful_Whale]

if you hit 34 at max range it combos into BF2, being the most meterless damage you can get from 34, in V1.

I think the real reward for ending combos in bf2 is the meterless oki it affords; Spawn has about 2 attacks that don't send the opponent across the screen. Veil plops them right in Spawn's favourite range.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I think the real reward for ending combos in bf2 is the meterless oki it affords; Spawn has about 2 attacks that don't send the opponent across the screen. Veil plops them right in Spawn's favourite range.

db4d in V3 does as well because you get a free dash up and have plenty of time to see what they'll do.

 

[MadPropz101]

Some of Spawn's normals are pretty slow, but he still has a lot of great buttons.
His movement is also Godlike, switching from him to most characters feels like walking through mud.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

So, Spawn's u2 and d2 can be neutral jumped. Thanks NRS.

 

[SHAOLIN]

So, Spawn's u2 and d2 can be neutral jumped. Thanks NRS.

Damn, I guess I got some lab work tonight lol

 

[TBambangC]

Just wanted to let everyone know that you can punish Jade’s wiggle stick string gap with 34 at almost maximum range. You have to block the wiggle then do 34 ASAP when she’s on startup for the next hit.

 

[MastererBetty]

Hope this is the right place to post this. It's a match video I had against a good baraka in Kombat league.

Fortunately it showcases Spawns strengths. Enjoy

 

[TBambangC]

Is it just or does Spawn’s 1 and throw have a weird hitbox that requires you to be really close to the opponent in order to connect?

 

[Kindred]

The more I play Spawn V2, the more I see its shortcoming.

Yes, he hits like a truck but the problem is opening people up. He has no mix. The opponent can block low forever and you will be stuck doing grabs or hop attacks all game. And on the off chance you actually do get a combo started, they will have a breakaway ready to go most of the time since it might take a while to actually get your chance.

Add to that the fact that his optimal combos are notoriously difficult to land (at least for me). I can spend hours doing these in the lab:
F21~BF3(amp) > J2~DB2~2 > F2~DB3
Throw(KB) > J2~DB2~2 > F23~BF3(amp) > J2~DB2~2 > F2~DB3
but I will drop them most of the time in game (especially the J2~DB2~J2 string on a grounded opponent)

(@Professor Oak, @MachinayRequiem , or anyone else who plays V2, thoughts?)

 

[Professor Oak]

The more I play Spawn V2, the more I see its shortcoming.

Yes, he hits like a truck but the problem is opening people up. He has no mix. The opponent can block low forever and you will be stuck doing grabs or hop attacks all game. And on the off chance you actually do get a combo started, they will have a breakaway ready to go most of the time since it might take a while to actually get your chance.

Add to that the fact that his optimal combos are notoriously difficult to land (at least for me). I can spend hours doing these in the lab:
F21~BF3(amp) > J2~DB2~2 > F2~DB3
Throw(KB) > J2~DB2~2 > F23~BF3(amp) > J2~DB2~2 > F2~DB3
but I will drop them most of the time in game (especially the J2~DB2~J2 string on a grounded opponent)

(@Professor Oak, @MachinayRequiem , or anyone else who plays V2, thoughts?)

I dropped him about three days ago, bro. I tried to like him, but he isnt at all my style in any variation. I didnt touch V2 outside of the lab because I kinda think the combo variations are the user friendly ones. They reward you for stray hits but usually dont give a lot of setplay. Also, as you mentioned, the hover combos and all were just a little inconsistent for me to wanna deal with. I could see myself visibly in shambles after losing a game to a dropped cape cancel. More to your point, opening people up is a chore with spawn. Hes all strike/throw and whiff punishing and thats kinda like most of the roster and he doesnt do it uniquely or drastically better. His restand is the one reason I think V2 may have value still, but.. Idk. Scorpion has that really, with more damage and mix to boot. So do Dvorah and others.

V1 you can see above. V3 I think is interesting, but the b1 mix is really the most threatening thing and 2/3s of it are MASSIVELY unsafe. Once the DLC hype dies, hell be considered mid-tier at best I think.

War Club is the biggest letdown of this character. It works directly after b12 and directly after Jks IF you read breakaway and timed it exactly, otherwise its just another less damaging combo ender. Its safety is great, but it can and will be flawless block punished once the MU is more natural. It also resets neutral basically, and as much as he seems to control space, Spawn is pretty free to Jumps.

All in all, I hate the character in action. Concept is cool, though. I main Nightwolf now, but feel free to ask me questions since were 2 of 7 people on this sight that use the Training tab.

 

[Kindred]

They reward you for stray hits but usually dont give a lot of setplay. ... Hes all strike/throw and whiff punishing and thats kinda like most of the roster and he doesnt do it uniquely or drastically better.

Pretty much summarized V2

His restand is the one reason I think V2 may have value still, but.. Idk.

Honestly, I dont find his restand particularly useful either. It's only +5 on hit meaning that his fastest mid comes out in 8 frames. The number of characters on the cast with an 8f or faster D1 means that the restand doesnt really give you much room to play with. The number of times I go for a grab and get poked out of it is ridiculous. Maybe doing F4 is a potential alternative but that's a 12f low so get ready to trade with characters who have a 7f or faster D1. So yea, i find the restand is limited and if you do it midscreen, you might as well back up and resume your 34 pressure.

Once the DLC hype dies, hell be considered mid-tier at best I think.

Agreed

Spawn is pretty free to Jumps.

That shit frustrates me the most. You NEED a proper AA in this game because jumping is so abused

 

[Kindred]

Hope this is the right place to post this. It's a match video I had against a good baraka in Kombat league.

Fortunately it showcases Spawns strengths. Enjoy

I'm impressed, you went for a J2~DB2~J2 starter 3 times in total and you got all of them to land perfectly. Tips?

 

[DixieFlatline78]

Honestly, I dont find his restand particularly useful either. It's only +5 on hit meaning that his fastest mid comes out in 8 frames. The number of characters on the cast with an 8f or faster D1 means that the restand doesnt really give you much room to play with. The number of times I go for a grab and get poked out of it is ridiculous. Maybe doing F4 is a potential alternative but that's a 12f low so get ready to trade with characters who have a 7f or faster D1. So yea, i find the restand is limited and if you do it midscreen, you might as well back up and resume your 34 pressure.

It's better than dashing up after a knockdown and being +5. The one really special thing Spawn has is that he really doesnt have to play around the wakeup game like most characters. He can cover most wakeups, especially in the corner

 

[Professor Oak]

And just to dispell a couple of things Ive seen around:
NONE of the cancels in any variation are safe. I believe the fastest one I could find was off f4 string and it was -11 or -10. Im fuzzy on if it was the bf2 or db1 cancel, but both are unsafe and pretty close frame data wise in all cancels.

bf2 projectile parry isnt reliable against even average opponents. It will most of the time startup slow as you are very close to the projectile, or not connect because you are far from the projectile. Kabal and Jade being two matchups I have gotten use out of this move because of air projectile READS, if I read wrong though, jump in combo.

In V1 bf1 is duckable off strings that hit the "max range" marker.

Aside from being corner locked, the 34 game is avoided by walking back and whiff punishing spawn. Everything Spawn does crumbles when the opponent presses back, even his good projectile bf1 can be low profiled by a lot of the cast.

Spawns best button is d1. Lets repeat this, Spawns best button is d1. His other mids? Slow, long reaching, no mix. The best way to play him is to wait for mistakes, but he doesnt really force any mistakes. Walk back, block, take your turn. Spawn does not advance quickly and does not remain safe cheaply. b12 is the temptress, everyone wants the damage, but its garbage as anything but a whiff punisher. f2 is only slightly farther range, and outside ov V2 gives no follow up. As spawn you will d1, F4, or D1, 112/11b2 and mix in throws liberally. This is literally all characters.

And lastly, off-topic perhaps, but an opinion I wanna share: Keith David as an older man hanging on to his claim to fame and Spawns 90s character unchanged by time ended up really cringe in this game and reminds me more of why I grew out of the Batman/Joker/Deadpool/Spawn type characters than I thought it would. "I fucking hate clowns," he says, while being danced out to the public as a small token of appreciation after being requested for literally 10 years. You guys missed the boat, we're adults now. Hell in the Spawn world is as Creative as Space in the Star Wars world.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Kabal and Jade being two matchups I have gotten use out of this move because of air projectile READS

Same here. If I ever do land this on anyone with a normal fireball on the floor I feel like I lucked out.

 

[TBambangC]

The more I play Spawn V2, the more I see its shortcoming.

Yes, he hits like a truck but the problem is opening people up. He has no mix. The opponent can block low forever and you will be stuck doing grabs or hop attacks all game. And on the off chance you actually do get a combo started, they will have a breakaway ready to go most of the time since it might take a while to actually get your chance.

Add to that the fact that his optimal combos are notoriously difficult to land (at least for me). I can spend hours doing these in the lab:
F21~BF3(amp) > J2~DB2~2 > F2~DB3
Throw(KB) > J2~DB2~2 > F23~BF3(amp) > J2~DB2~2 > F2~DB3
but I will drop them most of the time in game (especially the J2~DB2~J2 string on a grounded opponent)

(@Professor Oak, @MachinayRequiem , or anyone else who plays V2, thoughts?)

This.

This is also why playing as Spawn online is basically hard mode, and you will rely on the opponent’s knowledge to the matchup to determine your odds.

If your footsies game are great, you can wreak some havok with him though. Nothing more satisfying than shimmying people and landing that b12 starter into a full combo. He only have trouble against opponents with similar reaching, but faster, normals on footsies.

I don’t even bother with J2 online. My optimal bnbs are:

1. Starter xx BF3 amp, wait for them to drop, 24 xx DB3
2. B12, F21 xx BF3 amp, 11 xx DB3. If amped, you can get 40%.

One can only hope they would buff him by making his normals faster/safer, but it seems unlikely.

I still exclusively use him online though.

 

[MadPropz101]

And just to dispell a couple of things Ive seen around:
NONE of the cancels in any variation are safe. I believe the fastest one I could find was off f4 string and it was -11 or -10. Im fuzzy on if it was the bf2 or db1 cancel, but both are unsafe and pretty close frame data wise in all cancels.

bf2 projectile parry isnt reliable against even average opponents. It will most of the time startup slow as you are very close to the projectile, or not connect because you are far from the projectile. Kabal and Jade being two matchups I have gotten use out of this move because of air projectile READS, if I read wrong though, jump in combo.

In V1 bf1 is duckable off strings that hit the "max range" marker.

Aside from being corner locked, the 34 game is avoided by walking back and whiff punishing spawn. Everything Spawn does crumbles when the opponent presses back, even his good projectile bf1 can be low profiled by a lot of the cast.

Spawns best button is d1. Lets repeat this, Spawns best button is d1. His other mids? Slow, long reaching, no mix. The best way to play him is to wait for mistakes, but he doesnt really force any mistakes. Walk back, block, take your turn. Spawn does not advance quickly and does not remain safe cheaply. b12 is the temptress, everyone wants the damage, but its garbage as anything but a whiff punisher. f2 is only slightly farther range, and outside ov V2 gives no follow up. As spawn you will d1, F4, or D1, 112/11b2 and mix in throws liberally. This is literally all characters.

And lastly, off-topic perhaps, but an opinion I wanna share: Keith David as an older man hanging on to his claim to fame and Spawns 90s character unchanged by time ended up really cringe in this game and reminds me more of why I grew out of the Batman/Joker/Deadpool/Spawn type characters than I thought it would. "I fucking hate clowns," he says, while being danced out to the public as a small token of appreciation after being requested for literally 10 years. You guys missed the boat, we're adults now. Hell in the Spawn world is as Creative as Space in the Star Wars world.

I would say that Spawn is a really good character. Specifically I am talking about v2 which is his best variation by far, v3 is decent, and v1 is absolute garbage.
Now sure, his buttons aren't the fastest in the game, but he still has a lot of good ones. Between his 7f s1, his s2, and 12f s3 he can punish a lot of stuff that other characters would strugle to punish or wouldn't have the range.
S34 is crazy fast considering the range it has and the fact that it is completely disjointed, and is hit confirmable into great damage or advantage on block with ex bf1.
Sure his f21 is slow and bad recovery, but if you have the spacing down it shouldn't be a problem, it's also very easy to hit confirm because of that and safe on block.
He has a really good and safe hit confirmable low so why cry for a fast mid?
His b12 is arguably the best whiff punisher in the game and leads into massive damage and a restand.
His throw is insane as he is actually the only character that you are scared to keep in the corner because if he throws you that's basically game over.
With his throw kb, 11b2 kb and his ex db3 he can choose to do massive unbreakable damage if he wants to.
His glide is also really good for jumpins, especially in the corner when you can do high ji3 into low ji3 to be at an advantage on block, or extend his b12 for meterless 30%.
Also, another reasons he doesn't have fast mids is because his movement is godlike. Trying to wave dash with any other character after using Spawn feels like walking through mud.
He has his shortcomings of course, but if you have good footsies you can do pretty well with him, for example his d1 walk back game is very strong because of the range it has.
I could go on, but I honestly think that Spawn is one of the stronger characters in this game.
Oh and btw, I'm gonna pretend like you didn't say all that crap about Keith David and Batman at the end, that's a big no no.

 

[SHAOLIN]

 

[Professor Oak]

I would say that Spawn is a really good character. Specifically I am talking about v2 which is his best variation by far, v3 is decent, and v1 is absolute garbage.
Now sure, his buttons aren't the fastest in the game, but he still has a lot of good ones. Between his 7f s1, his s2, and 12f s3 he can punish a lot of stuff that other characters would strugle to punish or wouldn't have the range.
S34 is crazy fast considering the range it has and the fact that he it is completely disjointed, and is hit confirmable into great damage or advantage on block with ex bf1.
Sure his f21 is slow and bad recovery, but if you have the spacing down it shouldn't be a problem, it's also very easy to hit confirm because of that and safe on block.
He has a really good and safe hit confirmable low so why cry for a fast mid?
His b12 is arguably the best whiff punisher in the game and leads into massive damage and a restand.
His throw is insane as he is actually the only character that you are scared to keep in the corner because if he throws you that's basically game over.
With his throw kb, 11b2 kb and his ex db3 he can choose to do massive unbreakable damage if he wants to.
His glide is also really good for jumpins, especially in the corner when you can do high ji3 into low ji3 to be at an advantage on block, or extend his b12 for meterless 30%.
Also, another reasons he doesn't have fast mids is because his movement is godlike. Trying to wave dash with any other character after using Spawn feels like walking through mud.
He has his shortcomings of course, but if you have good footsies you can do pretty well with him, for example his d1 walk back game is very strong because of the range it has.
I could go on, but I honestly think that Spawn is one of the stronger characters in this game.
Oh and btw, I'm gonna pretend like you didn't say all that crap about Keith David and Batman at the end, it's a big no no.

I dont disagree with you, I just dont think that its unique to spawn. The throw kb is, but just tech back throws always when hes cornered and take the forward throw. His movement is great, but I dont feel like Im walking through mud with Nightwolf or Kotal, and I also feel like I have very similar tools to Spawn in other areas. Reaching normals, advancing mids, damage, strong strike/throw, its just generic mortal kombat 11 in a nostalgic package. I think hes viable and all, but theres enough cons to make the pros not oppressive, therefore I believe him mid tier at best.

D1 walkback is something I was using to good success, and again, what you listed are indeed strengths of the character, I just personally dont see him on a Liu Kang/Lao/Jacqui/Terminator level, more in line with Jade. Very good at what they excel at, but enough weaknesses to not really be great. Btw, I only play top tiers, so my opinion is super elitist and probably wrong.

 

[MastererBetty]

I'm impressed, you went for a J2~DB2~J2 starter 3 times in total and you got all of them to land perfectly. Tips?

Between the DB2 and your second J2 there's a slight delay. Once you get past the delay and hit your second J2 immediately do your string. Doing this will allow the J2 to be part of the dial kombo