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Kitana General Discussion

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
  • the damage scaling after fan lift has been reduced and opponents can no longer break away the fan lift
  • royal protection receives a stacking damage buff for each successful parry that lasts ten seconds, which also resets after each successful parry
  • EX fan can be delayed by seven more frames in all variations
You can read the official patch notes here.

In my opinion, Fan-Fare is still weak. Fearless is all right. Highborn is clearly the best and always will be.
Yea fan fare is still trash lol. They keep “buffing” the wrong shit.
Highborn is still supreme.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Yea fan fare is still trash lol. They keep “buffing” the wrong shit.
Well, most of the buffs seem to be quality of life changes. How would you buff Fan-Fare? If I recall correctly, someone mentioned making gut slice safe on block to function similarly to Geras's big fist in New Era and Eternal. I like this idea, which would improve block pressure and chip damage potential. Gut slice is presently worthless outside of combos and still whiffs after certain strings on female characters. Even if buffed universally, this change would have little to no significance to Highborn as you would still end all strings with razors anyway.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
Well, most of the buffs seem to be quality of life changes. How would you buff Fan-Fare? If I recall correctly, someone mentioned making gut slice safe on block to function similarly to Geras's big fist in New Era and Eternal. I like this idea, which would improve block pressure and chip damage potential. Gut slice is presently worthless outside of combos and still whiffs after certain strings on female characters. Even if buffed universally, this change would have little to no significance to Highborn as you would still end all strings with razors anyway.
I'm going to keep saying this until I die. Kitana NEEDS faster mids, at least a faster B1. Look at spawn, his mids are slow (13 and 16) and he is slow in general..BUT his mids have much more range than kitanas and are much easier to whiff punish with.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
Also...in my opinion the best buff fanfare could receive would come from a variation overhaul. Ground war needs to be base and replaced with upward fan toss. This would give her a much needed air control, conversions, and finally kitana can be her self with stylish and more damaging combos.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
How has HB been for everyone post patch?
Life with Highborn is even better now that Upgraded Jacqui has been normalized.

I'm going to keep saying this until I die. Kitana NEEDS faster mids, at least a faster B1. Look at spawn, his mids are slow (13 and 16) and he is slow in general..BUT his mids have much more range than kitanas and are much easier to whiff punish with.
She does not. She needs better special moves in Fan-Fare (and Fearless to a lesser extent). Faster mid attacks would make Highborn the best character in the game. Besides, Cetrion and Johnny Cage are top tier characters without any fast mid attacks., but they have excellent special moves that serve multiple functions. Kitana in Fan-Fare does not.

Spawn's design is different from Kitana's. He appears to be an aggressive footsies character with several disjointed hitboxes. Kitana, on the other hand, is more of a zoning character. She whiff punishes just fine with b+2.
 

chrisisnice

I'm a lover, not a fighter
Life with Highborn is even better now that Upgraded Jacqui has been normalized.



She does not. She needs better special moves in Fan-Fare (and Fearless to a lesser extent). Faster mid attacks would make Highborn the best character in the game. Besides, Cetrion and Johnny Cage are top tier characters without any fast mid attacks., but they have excellent special moves that serve multiple functions. Kitana in Fan-Fare does not.

Spawn's design is different from Kitana's. He appears to be an aggressive footsies character with several disjointed hitboxes. Kitana, on the other hand, is more of a zoning character. She whiff punishes just fine with b+2.
Out of interest M2Dave - if you were to buff Fearless and Fan Fare to make them competitive with Highborn, what would be your adjustments?
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
Life with Highborn is even better now that Upgraded Jacqui has been normalized.



She does not. She needs better special moves in Fan-Fare (and Fearless to a lesser extent). Faster mid attacks would make Highborn the best character in the game. Besides, Cetrion and Johnny Cage are top tier characters without any fast mid attacks., but they have excellent special moves that serve multiple functions. Kitana in Fan-Fare does not.

Spawn's design is different from Kitana's. He appears to be an aggressive footsies character with several disjointed hitboxes. Kitana, on the other hand, is more of a zoning character. She whiff punishes just fine with b+2.
Okay, I understand your point. But how would that be done? Make booty safe on block?
 
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Dogeofthesea

Apprentice
Booty can be MB on block for example, that's a good change that only affects Fan-fare.
But then 99% Skarlet and Shao Khan players will scream "omg where is my bufffffff why buffing Kitana again!!!!!!!"
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Out of interest M2Dave - if you were to buff Fearless and Fan Fare to make them competitive with Highborn, what would be your adjustments?
For Fan-Fare, I would begin with the gut slice adjustment that I discussed in my previous post so the move can be used in block strings like Geras's big fist in New Era and Eternal. An adjustment for more consistent combos and juggles on female characters would be beneficial too.

For Fearless, I would remove the gap for the EX low fan toss. However, you lose one bar of offensive as well as defensive meter, identically to Johnny Cage's EX rising star in Outtake. In general, I love this idea and would like to see more moves that follow this design.

Okay, I understand your point. But how would be do that? Make booty safe on block?
Making a move that travels half screen safe on block would not be a good change for the game whatsoever. I mean, Fan-Fare would be much, much better, but she would completely crap on the neutral game and be very frustrating to fighting against.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
For Fan Fare:
Amp ass shouldn’t be punishable ON HIT when you breakaway from it. That’s a huge problem
Ground war needs to be base and replaced with up fan.
Royal protection needs to recover much quicker because there are characters who can throw out another projectile and kitana gets punished by it during the recovery of the previous parry.
Either she gets those are she gets revamped. Fan fare is severely lacking

The only thing I wish Fearless had is a punish off 12. That’s honestly the main reason why I don’t main it. At least fan fare scores good damage off 12 and Highborn gets unbreakable damage into a mix. Fearless gets a very meh knockdown and meh damage.
Amp fan nado that comes out faster and eats projectiles would be nice too but that’s probably a stretch.
 

BlissfulMedusa

Modern Woefare
Life with Highborn is even better now that Upgraded Jacqui has been normalized.



She does not. She needs better special moves in Fan-Fare (and Fearless to a lesser extent). Faster mid attacks would make Highborn the best character in the game. Besides, Cetrion and Johnny Cage are top tier characters without any fast mid attacks., but they have excellent special moves that serve multiple functions. Kitana in Fan-Fare does not.

Spawn's design is different from Kitana's. He appears to be an aggressive footsies character with several disjointed hitboxes. Kitana, on the other hand, is more of a zoning character. She whiff punishes just fine with b+2.
You appear to be wrong here. They keep adjusting Kitana’s specials in both Fan-Fare and Fearless to little to no effect, why? Because of her normals. You mention both Cage and Cetrion as examples of characters without fast mids that have specials that make up for this, and while that is accurate, the normals they do have are quite good.

Cage has an impressive stagger game and jailing low pokes that lead into plus frames, Cetrion has normals that leave her at advantage on block along with others that, even while negative, stagger you so far back you are still forced to play her game or risk getting hit by her extended hitboxes.

The issue is, as far as Fan-Fare and Fearless are concerned, it is simply far too easy for Kitana to lose her turn. Highborn bypasses this to an extent, allowing for razor mixups and stance cancels to cover her otherwise unthreatening normals, thus, putting it far above the other two when combined with her zoning.

Kitana’s 12d2 string is borderline useless outside of punishes and is one of the only things she can jail a low poke into. B142/B131 are great strings, but can be blown up quite easily outside of Highborn. Her movement is far too sluggish for her to easily step out of the range of, or backdash out of, a lot of things in this game, and she lacks any plus frames to enforce a guessing game on her opponent.

Until they review her normals and/or movement Kitana will always falter underneath characters like Cage and Cetrion. Depending on what they do, a rework of razors may be in order to see that she doesn’t become too crazy.
 

Zviko

Warrior
You Kitana mains are starting to annoy even me, also Kitana player. Feels like no matter what they do you'll never be happy. You got EXACTLY what you wanted, unbreakable nado and less damage scaling from it. It's been a week and you guys are already discussing new potential buffs. :D
 
I still think Fan-fare is better than Fearless since it does 27~% dmg from simple 8f jab, Fearless is really easy to block, her zoning is nothing special imo.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
You appear to be wrong here. They keep adjusting Kitana’s specials in both Fan-Fare and Fearless to little to no effect, why? Because of her normals. You mention both Cage and Cetrion as examples of characters without fast mids that have specials that make up for this, and while that is accurate, the normals they do have are quite good.

Cage has an impressive stagger game and jailing low pokes that lead into plus frames, Cetrion has normals that leave her at advantage on block along with others that, even while negative, stagger you so far back you are still forced to play her game or risk getting hit by her extended hitboxes.

The issue is, as far as Fan-Fare and Fearless are concerned, it is simply far too easy for Kitana to lose her turn. Highborn bypasses this to an extent, allowing for razor mixups and stance cancels to cover her otherwise unthreatening normals, thus, putting it far above the other two when combined with her zoning.

Kitana’s 12d2 string is borderline useless outside of punishes and is one of the only things she can jail a low poke into. B142/B131 are great strings, but can be blown up quite easily outside of Highborn. Her movement is far too sluggish for her to easily step out of the range of, or backdash out of, a lot of things in this game, and she lacks any plus frames to enforce a guessing game on her opponent.

Until they review her normals and/or movement Kitana will always falter underneath characters like Cage and Cetrion. Depending on what they do, a rework of razors may be in order to see that she doesn’t become too crazy.
^^
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
They keep adjusting Kitana’s specials in both Fan-Fare and Fearless to little to no effect...
I firmly disagree because they have mostly been fixing and putting Kitana's special moves in line with other special moves instead of buffing. I am very appreciative of all the adjustments and changes that NRS developers have granted to Kitana. However, EX fan hitting mid? Such is the case with most traditional EX projectiles in the game. Fan lift can no longer be broken away from? Characters with similar special moves (i.e., Cetrion, Geras) have had this property since day one. Royal protection getting a couple of buffs? Good! So the move goes from worthless to serviceable. Even Highborn mostly received fixes to razors, which used to have all sorts of hitbox issues and inconsistencies.

I am not arguing for more buffs as much as I am arguing against faster mid attacks in order to cease, or at least limit, this monotonous strike / throw meta. Whether you like Highborn or not, Kitana plays original in the variation because razors are a unique special move, which should in no way, shape, or form be altered because some of you want to do Mortal Kombat 9 combos from fast mid attacks in Fan-Fare.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Easiest fix to her is make her b1 11 frames.

That's it. It doesn't matter of highborne gets it because she already jails into b1
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Also I've been wondering this, but is delayed fan toss on block a mix or no? Seems really hard to tell of she'll meter burn it or not.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
You Kitana mains are starting to annoy even me, also Kitana player. Feels like no matter what they do you'll never be happy. You got EXACTLY what you wanted, unbreakable nado and less damage scaling from it. It's been a week and you guys are already discussing new potential buffs. :D
Yes because the fundamental issues with the character have not been addressed. But, that doesn't mean that me and the general kitana community isn't happy about the buffs.
 

Zviko

Warrior
Yes because the fundamental issues with the character have not been addressed. But, that doesn't mean that me and the general kitana community isn't happy about the buffs.
It's just funny to me. I agree with you, I even said breakaway buff is not the buff Kitana mains want but they insisted like it's the buff she needs the most. That's exactly what they got. You asked for the wrong buffs and they listened. Deal with it now. :D