Upgraded. Most. Broken. Character. For all MK11. History. Delete her. Please. NRS. Please

[LMNYHappyDaze]

I believe the disconnect is that no one really asked for advice. They started this thread to say “this shit is dumb, why do I gotta deal with this” and the other party is offering unwanted, slightly condescending advice. It’s good advice, I’ve learned something, but it’s not what I feel the main purpose of this thread was. I feel like the purpose was to discuss the character and her tools and options and to access if they were “fair” or not. But it turned into the usual “git gud hit the lab” song and dance

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I believe the disconnect is that no one really asked for advice. They started this thread to say “this shit is dumb, why do I gotta deal with this” and the other party is offering unwanted, slightly condescending advice. It’s good advice, I’ve learned something, but it’s not what I feel the main purpose of this thread was. I feel like the purpose was to discuss the character and her tools and options and to access if they were “fair” or not. But it turned into the usual “git gud hit the lab” song and dance

So basically, feel free to complain endlessly all you want about deleting characters from the game, but if someone actually offers advice about the MU, wants to discuss the character's meta, or brings support to their counterargument in the form of results and footage.. Go take a hike.

Gotcha

If that's what you want, you should really be on Reddit, instead of here.

 

[MKF30]

Spawn will do full screen combos with his cape. And chains will hold opponent in place across the screen. Chains are an unreactable projectile you cannot jump over. If blocked, it will chip 5 hits.

Once you get close to him all his strings will either be safe or plus on block, revolve around either a low or overhead string, and he will also have a 4f D1 and D3.

Lol his chain and cape moves will be safe I bet. Just look at scorpions kunai yo-yo move Oh spawn is going to be hell to deal with (see what I did there)

 

[Wigy]

He's talking about a mid, not a hop that literally jumps over the lows and raises the character's entire model/hurtbox out of that area.

'Crush' in fighting games usually describes something that would normally be vunerable to a hitbox from a particular attack, but either doesn't have a hurtbox where it normally would, or is specifically flagged to have priority over certain attacks.

Crush moves definitely are a thing in this game I'm genuinely confused. It's not as cut and dry as other games but it's there.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Crush moves definitely are a thing in this game I'm genuinely confused. It's not as cut and dry as other games but it's there.

Seems like a lot of people are confused about what a crush system really is. We don’t have that mechanic in MK11.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Every single top player who isn't an Upgraded main that plays this game at the highest level thinks she needs to be hit hard. I don't see how this is even up for debate. It's not fun to play against, your options against it aren't reliable and the 10's of layers you have to deal with any time you block her are overwhelming. People do not like this shit.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Seems like a lot of people are confused about what a crush system really is. We don’t have that mechanic in MK11.

I don't think it's a fully fleshed out mechanic but certain attacks alter your hurtbox in a way that makes you crush certain attacks.
Jax's f3 tends to "crush" pokes sometimes because of the way he lifts his leg, similarly Collector's low slash thingy has crushed my jab a few times because of the way he crouches down during the animation.

 

[LMNYHappyDaze]

So basically, feel free to complain endlessly all you want about deleting characters from the game, but if someone actually offers advice about the MU, wants to discuss the character's meta, or brings support to their counterargument in the form of results and footage.. Go take a hike.

Gotcha

If that's what you want, you should really be on Reddit, instead of here.

That’s not what I said dude

 

[Yousef]

I spent the last 20 mins reading this thread
So basically ........
*we got people complaining about upgraded
*Other people defending upgraded
*The funny part we got people who are better than 90% of the players
That's interesting
Keep going I'm loving this thread so far

 

[xKMMx]

I believe the disconnect is that no one really asked for advice. They started this thread to say “this shit is dumb, why do I gotta deal with this” and the other party is offering unwanted, slightly condescending advice. It’s good advice, I’ve learned something, but it’s not what I feel the main purpose of this thread was. I feel like the purpose was to discuss the character and her tools and options and to access if they were “fair” or not. But it turned into the usual “git gud hit the lab” song and dance

Quite honestly whats wrong with that? It's ridiculous that people would rather bitch and commiserate with each other about stuff that's "broken" (which really means just hard to deal with to everyone else). So many people would rather bitch about stuff than learn how to deal with it. Honestly I don't even play the game anymore but when I did there were plenty of things that I found remarkably hard to deal with at first then after a little labbing, and or asking for and taking advice from those that already know how to deal with certain things I got more comfortable and leveled up.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I don't think it's a fully fleshed out mechanic but certain attacks alter your hurtbox in a way that makes you crush certain attacks.
Jax's f3 tends to "crush" pokes sometimes because of the way he lifts his leg, similarly Collector's low slash thingy has crushed my jab a few times because of the way he crouches down during the animation.

That’s just missing the hurtbox occasionally because of where the models are. Probably unintentional. Wheras in an actual crush system, even if the attack connects with the opponent’s character model or hurtbox, it still doesn’t hit, because the crush is intentionally made or flagged as being invulnerable to that move.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

That’s just missing the hurtbox occasionally because of where the models are. Probably unintentional. Wheras in an actual crush system, even if the attack connects with the opponent’s character model or hurtbox, it still doesn’t hit, because the crush is actually flagged as being invulnerable to that move.

I think they get that, I just understand it as a crush functionally even if that's not what it technically is

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I think they get that, I just understand it as a crush functionally even if that's not what it technically is

A crush is not a ‘sometimes/maybe’ — it doesn’t just mean you whiffed on the model, it’s invulnerable every time.

It’s just not the same thing as crush system.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

A crush is not a ‘sometimes/maybe’ — it doesn’t just mean you whiffed on the model, it’s invulnerable every time.

It’s just not the same thing as crush system.

No yeah, I get that, I just understand why people use the word crush even if it's not correct, like it makes sense and I know what they're saying

 

[M2Dave]

*Other people defending upgraded

I honestly see nobody defending Upgraded. Mortal Kombat 11 has not had a major offline tournament since NEC 20, which was four months ago, and no Jacqui players made top 8. There has been an increase of Jacqui players in recent online tournaments, but I believe that most rational people are requesting more time and evidence before she is normalized. Distinguishing legitimate balance issues from hyperbole is difficult when people create threads such as this one.

Does Upgraded need adjustments in the near future? In my opinion, likely so. However, recognizing how a move ought to be changed is just as important as identifying the problem, and developers need time to make proper decisions that neither fail to address the problem or over-normalize the character.

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Braindead faceless character with 0 charisma got 2 new skins

 

[DeftMonk]

Roy. Dem’s some long posts bro.

 

[Agilaz]

Jacqui is in a tough spot right now, in terms of how to approach her balance.

I feel that a lot of the good stuff she has up close was mainly balanced around her v1. So nerfing her F3 for example to make her less oppressive would also hurt her v1 which I don't think needs a nerf.

So how do you even rebalance Upgraded? The leap is the core aspect of that variation, it NEEDS to be good due to the nature of the move. Nerf it too hard and the variation is instant dumpster trash and everybody will just flock to 1RKO and Next Gen.

Mind you, I'm not saying Upgraded should stay as is. I'm saying I wouldn't know how to properly rebalance without dumpstering the character/variation, and I'm saying this as somebody who absolutely has loathed Jacqui ever since she was introduced in MKX.

NRS balance painted themselves in a corner with this one cause whatever they'll decide will probably have no real impact or kill the pick entirely

 

[Denny]

While I think outright just requesting to delete an entire character from the game is hardly reasonable, I can see the problem where anti-airing has a poor track record in NRS games and it may feel like a nod to that or even trolling from the designers of the game that they added this ability.

What to do about the variation? I'm not sure.
What I THINK could be done? Proper anti-airs would go a long way. It could also be more negative on block, or its hit region adjusted, start up slower, the works.

At the end of the day, though, so far so good on adjusting things that over-perform.
I feel like this variation has it coming too.
(I hope.)

 

[MKF30]

They don't have to delete her outright, just give her the Erron Black treatment then see how much she's used in tourneys, online etc

 

[lordlosh]

Upgraded variation need to be degraded, no doubt about that. IF you don`t see a problem with her, you are either a troll or biased Jacqui player.

 

[Wigy]

A crush is not a ‘sometimes/maybe’ — it doesn’t just mean you whiffed on the model, it’s invulnerable every time.

It’s just not the same thing as crush system.

That's kind of splitting hairs. Jax's f3 is so good at low crushing you have to treat it as a pure low crush. Do you want everyone to say strings have low crushing properties just for semantics?

I get what you're saying entirely but it's like come on a little.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

That's kind of splitting hairs. Jax's f3 is so good at low crushing you have to treat it as a pure low crush. Do you want everyone to say strings have low crushing properties just for semantics?

I get what you're saying entirely but it's like come on a little.

You can poke Jax out of f3 though. You can’t do that with an actual low crush because it’d be invulnerable.

With MK11 a lot depends on the particular hitboxes in question.

 

[Wigy]

You can poke Jax out of f3 though. You can’t do that with an actual low crush because it’d be invulnerable.

With MK11 a lot depends on the particular hitboxes in question.

Yes this is what I'm said earlier I guess it's just semantics. I think people can be forgiven for saying it's a low crush when in some matchups your d3/d4 will basically always get crushed.

But yeah if you're being absolutely correct, jax's f3 has low crushing properties.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

They don't have to delete her outright, just give her the Erron Black treatment then see how much she's used in tourneys, online etc

Which is funny because erron is still good lol.