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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

Zviko

Noob
Does any of you hardcore Raiden mains have a list of characters which Thunder Wave optimal doesn't work or is very inconsistent? It's probably all the females and Shang right? Anyone else?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
After you have established that you are going to press buttons after a character Does something safe, the opponent should know this and start to expect it. Then he will be blocking immediately after his string (ie he stops pressuring you). Then you will be able to do a mid/throw/jump over him. He can counter this by poking you but this will be the next level of mind games.
I am not sure who requested safe launchers to jail after a character's fastest low poke. Johnny Cage's rising star deals limited damage and does not even juggle, yet look how powerful the "d+1 xx EX rising star" sequence is. So thank you for describing and explaining the meta because some individuals all over this forum obviously need the reiteration when they request ludicrous buffs. Fortunately, NRS also know what they are doing.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Does any of you hardcore Raiden mains have a list of characters which Thunder Wave optimal doesn't work or is very inconsistent? It's probably all the females and Shang right? Anyone else?
All females. Basically the most reliable indicator is you will see that storm cell doesn’t lift them as high from the ground. They literally sit on the same level as you. Then you have to do a deep JI2, F4~BF3.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
@MKF30 It's about risk/reward. If Storm Cell were safe on Amp, it would literally be the most powerful move in the game.

Could you just pick 3 moves, any moves for any character, which you think are equivalent to Storm Cell being made safe on Amp? I just want to try and walk through some specific examples instead of relying on generalized descriptions.

Edit: Not that I'm trying to dog pile on you. We don't need to keep going 9 rounds on this thing if you don't want.
 
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Does any of you hardcore Raiden mains have a list of characters which Thunder Wave optimal doesn't work or is very inconsistent? It's probably all the females and Shang right? Anyone else?
Basically against females avoid starting combos with b12~Storm Cell and instead use any other starter, even just b1~Storm Cell.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Ahh always funny when someone who don't even play Raiden says others make crazy suggestions for buffs. That's rich then admits what I've been saying about cage lol... :rolleyes:

This isn't true at all. Those numbers are factual data that tells us exactly when we're allowed to press a button. It's a pretty big deal and the data speaks for itself.
Yes but sometimes they're wrong as which has been the case in the game menus, since NRS had to update them in a few games. I believe Injustice 2 this was a case or MK X(forget which) and this game had some incorrect frame data at first. I'm not saying it's all wrong but that you also have to have a good understanding of the gameplay itself which always helps. See me I don't obsess over numbers, like baseball which I've played in the past. I don't overanalyze things with pitches, how he hides the ball, delivery etc I keep it simple. I see the ball, I hit the ball. With FG I don't OCD over frame data, numbers I just know and learn by playing what's safe, what's not what I can and can't counter etc, etc.

oh boy. Bro in the FGC this is what pressing buttons means: johnny ryu player gets KD by billy rush down man. Johnny assumes Mr Rushdown will press buttons so he wake up shoryukens and eats his lunch. Pressing buttons just means u hit a button so ur character is unable to defend (usually during a frame/tech trap).
I looked it up in FGT nothing came up lol, so I take it this is an unofficial term. Various people have told me different things with this haha but thanks for that explanation.

@MKF30 It's about risk/reward. If Storm Cell were safe on Amp, it would literally be the most powerful move in the game.

Could you just pick 3 moves, any moves for any character, which you think are equivalent to Storm Cell being made safe on Amp? I just want to try and walk through some specific examples instead of relying on generalized descriptions.

Edit: Not that I'm trying to dog pile on you. We don't need to keep going 9 rounds on this thing if you don't want.
I know I get that, I'm merely pointing out that there are tons of characters with moves that are safe, not risky in this game that are factually higher tier than Raiden is. I just don't agree that if SC was safe on AMP it would make him super Godtier or something. I think that most powerful move thing would be debatable imo. I still say sandtrap is the most powerful move because it's insanely fast recovery, it's safe from mid to far distance, is an anti zone and zoning tool....which is ridiculous. Most moves work as either not both.

I'd have to think about it but I definitely could the Geras sand trap would be one for sure the way it is now lol, JC's amped kick to me is pretty nuts considering he's safe on block and still has advantage I literally labbed it last night as well as tested it out with someone and I just don't see you countering him after that move. To me this is no different than if Raiden has a safe SC honestly because at least he wouldn't have the advantage as the way I want it would just give him space not give him advantage on following attack though. For the third I'd have to think about it but I'm sure I could find something.

It's fine man and respect your politeness, this is something I just happen to feel could help him I know others feel "oomg it would break him" I happen to disagree considering all the other crazy stuff in this game that people are seemingly cool with(well some) I have no issue agreeing to disagree on this though, but I'm also for discussing other buffs besides since I doubt they'll touch SC.
 
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MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11

Be aware guys this MU is even harder now.
LMAO ^ wow. That's crazy I was lol @ the Cage vs Geras stuff it's like BS vs even more BS, so you know some BS will win haha. I never pick Raiden against either, no point lol
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning

Be aware guys this MU is even harder now.
We still have B12 and F3 to use up close. Not sure if we can stagger the normal to bait the poke and take our turn back but I’m skeptical since B3 is -9. Regardless, good to know.
 
So I've been messing around with Raiden's various ways to achieve good plus frames on hit, mainly with:
  • f3 (+15) (-6)
  • s2 (+17) (-4)
  • f2 (+18) (-3)
but also:
  • 24 (+8) (-8)
  • b3 (+12) (-9)
  • 12 (+17) (-6)
  • j2 (+32) (+11/15)
Landing any of the first three allows a free attempt at basically anything Raiden wants.
  • b3/b2/243/mid/throw are all possible after f3 naturally
  • b2 and s2 require a micro dash to connect after an f2 and is uninterruptible.

  • 12 also jails into f3 (b1 whiffs), and frame traps into micro dash b3 (if they jump it's an air hit)
  • b3, in turn, jails into 12 (easiest), s4 (medium), and s2 (hardest)
  • 24 jails easily into 12
Landing these moves is like getting hit with Terminator's amped shotgun and forces the opponent to guess. What's more is jailing into s2 or another f3 can repeat the process and give additional opportunities for the opponent to lose patience and make mistakes.​

While many of us have believed for a while that Raiden is meant to frustrate the opponent I believe this is the real core of what he's meant to do; to always be jailing his opponent into oblivion until they get frame trapped into mega damage. It allows him to enforce his slower buttons and I think it overall makes a lot of sense with the big picture of this character. What is also great about this is all of his jailing options are available baseline and will work in any variation, and stray hits achieved from jailing are unscaled damage.

What this allows for Raiden is to basically loop into various jailing moves, for instance: d3, 24, 12, f3, throw is just one example. f2, b3, 12, f3 is another.
* I did manage to jail f3 into s3 (+6)(+3) after a micro dash and specific timing, but otherwise this button is still too short ranged to be of any real use to us.​

* It's worth noting for any Raijin players that 12 and d4 are +3 when canceling into Quick Charge on hit, so these methods would further serve Raiden for applying Quick Charge during such pressure.​
Also, I feel that f2 in particular is heavily under utilized in all of the Raiden footage I've watched. I'll give Reiko Takahashi credit for using it often in neutral, but he always taps them with a d3 instead of using the plus frames to further his advantage.

f2 (i21) is slower than f4 (i19) and hits high so it's understandable that most Raidens would rather just use f4, but the recovery times make a big difference on what Raiden is able to get away with by messing with the opponent's expectations.
f2 recovers 9 frames faster than f4 on whiff, allowing him to remain safer in situations where missing f4 is a full punish and is harder to jump over due to hitting high, upon which gives Raiden a 12 juggle conversion. If they start trying to duck f2 you can switch to f4.

Unfortunately, there's no way to jail into f2 other than j2, but it may still be worth doing since both moves separately will have no scaling (140) whereas j2~f2 combo does about 129.

Since their startups and recovery are essentially reversed I believe it's possible to mess with the opponent's expectation of our timing, for instance I have caught people at range after first whiffing an f2 and then immediately using f4 catching them responding to the f2, so as a general movement tactic I think there's merit here.
These moves also look almost identical when starting up and moving Raiden forward, so I don't believe anyone will be reacting to identify which one it is to make a fully informed response every time, and they're both -3 on block so if they block it doesn't matter anyways.

I encourage all the Raidens who still come here to try this stuff out and share your experiences. I'll have to eventually upload some of my own matches in the video thread on my next session of online once I've put more of this to muscle memory. I think it has potential.

Let me know what you guys think.
 
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Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
So I've been messing around with Raiden's various ways to achieve good plus frames on hit, mainly with:
  • f3 (+15) (-6)
  • s2 (+17) (-4)
  • f2 (+18) (-3)
but also:
  • 24 (+8) (-8)
  • b3 (+12) (-9)
  • 12 (+17) (-6)
  • j2 (+32) (+11/15)
Landing any of the first three allows a free attempt at basically anything Raiden wants.
  • b3/b2/243/mid/throw are all possible after f3 naturally
  • b2 and s2 require a micro dash to connect after an f2 and is uninterruptible.

  • 12 also jails into f3 (b1 whiffs), and frame traps into micro dash b3 (if they jump it's an air hit)
  • b3, in turn, jails into 12 (easiest), s4 (medium), and s2 (hardest)
  • 24 jails easily into 12
Landing these moves is like getting hit with Terminator's amped shotgun and forces the opponent to guess. What's more is jailing into s2 or another f3 can repeat the process and give additional opportunities for the opponent to lose patience and make mistakes.​

While many of us have believed for a while that Raiden is meant to frustrate the opponent I believe this is the real core of what he's meant to do; to always be jailing his opponent into oblivion until they get frame trapped into mega damage. It allows him to enforce his slower buttons and I think it overall makes a lot of sense with the big picture of this character. What is also great about this is all of his jailing options are available baseline and will work in any variation, and stray hits achieved from jailing are unscaled damage.

What this allows for Raiden is to basically loop into various jailing moves, for instance: d3, 24, 12, f3, throw is just one example. f2, b3, 12, f3 is another.
* I did manage to jail f3 into s3 (+6)(+3) after a micro dash and specific timing, but otherwise this button is still too short ranged to be of any real use to us.​

* It's worth noting for any Raijin players that 12 and d4 are +3 when canceling into Quick Charge on hit, so these methods would further serve Raiden for applying Quick Charge during such pressure.​
Also, I feel that f2 in particular is heavily under utilized in all of the Raiden footage I've watched. I'll give Reiko Takahashi credit for using it often in neutral, but he always taps them with a d3 instead of using the plus frames to further his advantage.

f2 (i21) is slower than f4 (i19) and hits high so it's understandable that most Raidens would rather just use f4, but the recovery times make a big difference on what Raiden is able to get away with by messing with the opponent's expectations.
f2 recovers 9 frames faster than f4 on whiff, allowing him to remain safer in situations where missing f4 is a full punish and is harder to jump over due to hitting high, upon which gives Raiden a 12 juggle conversion. If they start trying to duck f2 you can switch to f4.

Unfortunately, there's no way to jail into f2 other than j2, but it may still be worth doing since both moves separately will have no scaling (140) whereas j2~f2 combo does about 129.

Since their startups and recovery are essentially reversed I believe it's possible to mess with the opponent's expectation of our timing, for instance I have caught people at range after first whiffing an f2 and then immediately using f4 catching them responding to the f2, so as a general movement tactic I think there's merit here.
These moves also look almost identical when starting up and moving Raiden forward, so I don't believe anyone will be reacting to identify which one it is to make a fully informed response every time, and they're both -3 on block so if they block it doesn't matter anyways.

I encourage all the Raidens who still come here to try this stuff out and share your experiences. I'll have to eventually upload some of my own matches in the video thread on my next session of online once I've put more of this to muscle memory. I think it has potential.

Let me know what you guys think.
I think this is a great find. Though I think we should also keep in mind that in any event we do jail a string we should hit confirm into full combo, so this is more useful realistically for stray hits and single hits. It’s also very good for Raijin since we are guaranteed either neutral at worst or full combo at best every time we take our turn.

F2 stuff is good to know.

Overall great find mate :)
 

Nevan_PTF

All your mains belong to me!
So I've been messing around with Raiden's various ways to achieve good plus frames on hit, mainly with:
  • f3 (+15) (-6)
  • s2 (+17) (-4)
  • f2 (+18) (-3)
but also:
  • 24 (+8) (-8)
  • b3 (+12) (-9)
  • 12 (+17) (-6)
  • j2 (+32) (+11/15)
Landing any of the first three allows a free attempt at basically anything Raiden wants.
  • b3/b2/243/mid/throw are all possible after f3 naturally
  • b2 and s2 require a micro dash to connect after an f2 and is uninterruptible.

  • 12 also jails into f3 (b1 whiffs), and frame traps into micro dash b3 (if they jump it's an air hit)
  • b3, in turn, jails into 12 (easiest), s4 (medium), and s2 (hardest)
  • 24 jails easily into 12
Landing these moves is like getting hit with Terminator's amped shotgun and forces the opponent to guess. What's more is jailing into s2 or another f3 can repeat the process and give additional opportunities for the opponent to lose patience and make mistakes.​

While many of us have believed for a while that Raiden is meant to frustrate the opponent I believe this is the real core of what he's meant to do; to always be jailing his opponent into oblivion until they get frame trapped into mega damage. It allows him to enforce his slower buttons and I think it overall makes a lot of sense with the big picture of this character. What is also great about this is all of his jailing options are available baseline and will work in any variation, and stray hits achieved from jailing are unscaled damage.

What this allows for Raiden is to basically loop into various jailing moves, for instance: d3, 24, 12, f3, throw is just one example. f2, b3, 12, f3 is another.
* I did manage to jail f3 into s3 (+6)(+3) after a micro dash and specific timing, but otherwise this button is still too short ranged to be of any real use to us.​

* It's worth noting for any Raijin players that 12 and d4 are +3 when canceling into Quick Charge on hit, so these methods would further serve Raiden for applying Quick Charge during such pressure.​
Also, I feel that f2 in particular is heavily under utilized in all of the Raiden footage I've watched. I'll give Reiko Takahashi credit for using it often in neutral, but he always taps them with a d3 instead of using the plus frames to further his advantage.

f2 (i21) is slower than f4 (i19) and hits high so it's understandable that most Raidens would rather just use f4, but the recovery times make a big difference on what Raiden is able to get away with by messing with the opponent's expectations.
f2 recovers 9 frames faster than f4 on whiff, allowing him to remain safer in situations where missing f4 is a full punish and is harder to jump over due to hitting high, upon which gives Raiden a 12 juggle conversion. If they start trying to duck f2 you can switch to f4.

Unfortunately, there's no way to jail into f2 other than j2, but it may still be worth doing since both moves separately will have no scaling (140) whereas j2~f2 combo does about 129.

Since their startups and recovery are essentially reversed I believe it's possible to mess with the opponent's expectation of our timing, for instance I have caught people at range after first whiffing an f2 and then immediately using f4 catching them responding to the f2, so as a general movement tactic I think there's merit here.
These moves also look almost identical when starting up and moving Raiden forward, so I don't believe anyone will be reacting to identify which one it is to make a fully informed response every time, and they're both -3 on block so if they block it doesn't matter anyways.

I encourage all the Raidens who still come here to try this stuff out and share your experiences. I'll have to eventually upload some of my own matches in the video thread on my next session of online once I've put more of this to muscle memory. I think it has potential.

Let me know what you guys think.
This is really good man! Tyvm

I'll make sure to write it down and get it into my muscle memory as well, since using this together with Raijin Quick Charge can help to get conversions from hits, I wouldn't try before to convert.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
While many of us have believed for a while that Raiden is meant to frustrate the opponent I believe this is the real core of what he's meant to do; to always be jailing his opponent into oblivion until they get frame trapped into mega damage.
I totally agree, I've often thought the same thing. Raiden has some really great plus frames on hit, especially compared to the rest of the cast.

Also, even though T&L is bad, doing F4 or F2 into Amped Lightening Rod can leave Raiden at something like +18 to +24 at either point blank or F4 distance away. Just another way in that particular variation that he find some great plus frame and potential frame trap setups.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I totally agree, I've often thought the same thing. Raiden has some really great plus frames on hit, especially compared to the rest of the cast.

Also, even though T&L is bad, doing F4 or F2 into Amped Lightening Rod can leave Raiden at something like +18 to +24 at either point blank or F4 distance away. Just another way in that particular variation that he find some great plus frame and potential frame trap setups.
Do you have the hit and block data for going into AMP rod for various strings? I don’t remember if you have posted them before or not.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
Do you have the hit and block data for going into AMP rod for various strings? I don’t remember if you have posted them before or not.
I think I was able to get it for F2 and F4 into AMP rod in training mode using the Frame Data display the game has, but it doesn't always seem to read every move. For example I was trying to test B14 into the Bubble to see what kind of advantage you get and just wasn't displaying.

In general if the Rod move hits as part of the string I think Raiden should be +8. If the Rod move is blocked, he's -21. So if you do B12xxxRod you should be +8 on hit, regardless if you actually Amp or not. The advantage when the opponent actually gets hit by the bubble seems to be harder to pin down.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
So as of the new patch we can reversal punish Geras’ F212, and TW probably has the best TP in the game now. Cetrion and Skarlet’s far teleports cost both def bars while ours only costs 1
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Too bad his teleport didn't cost nothing if they intended to not touch him but I suppose 1 is better than 2
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
So as of the new patch we can reversal punish Geras’ F212, and TW probably has the best TP in the game now. Cetrion and Skarlet’s far teleports cost both def bars while ours only costs 1
By the way we have the only 6f wake up in the game (discharge). Long live Raijin
 

Nevan_PTF

All your mains belong to me!
What are you guys using as AA?

DB2 trades with some jump kicks, so I've been having success with S1 and D1. D4 works too, but you have to press D4 as they are in the air, if a kick comes out you trade most of the time.

Been trying to improve the neutral, beyond B1 and B3, by using F2 and it works, even as an advancing tool. F3 is really good too, Trustful_Whale expanded on this and I've been using it a lot. It enables Raiden to start putting the opponent in a blender, while negating get up options. I've been going into F3 > 1,2 xx DB3 / F3 > 2,4 xx DB4(AMP) ... or F3,2 > walk back B1, if they block.

I'm really liking Raiden and I'm less than half way to reach Champion in KL, the goal is Demi-God this season!

I have an offtopic question, how do you record your matches using PS4? I've tried to change the settings in order to be able to record replays, but it only records seconds of gameplay. I could stream but that would make the video too big and could become discouraging to watch 1h+ of matches, which aren't high level. However I'm looking forward to critique and having a chance to improve. There's a ELS weekly in Portugal that I would like to participate and for that I need pruning.
 

Zviko

Noob
What are you guys using as AA?
S1 is one of the best S1 AAs in the game. Easy to confirm into B12 as well.
I have an offtopic question, how do you record your matches using PS4? I've tried to change the settings in order to be able to record replays, but it only records seconds of gameplay.
Here:

  1. Record a video clip of something that has just happened:
    Press the SHARE button when you're playing a game and you've done something amazing that you'd like to share in a video form.
  2. Record a video clip of something that's about to happen:
    Press the SHARE button twice at the start of the scene you want to save, and then press the SHARE button again at the end of the scene. A video clip can be saved with a maximum of the past 15 minutes of Gameplay video. The 15 minutes are measured backward from the moment when you press the SHARE button to end the scene.
To change the default recording length, go to [Share Settings] > [Video Clip Settings] > [Length of Video Clip] and choose from 1,3,5,10, and 15 minutes.
 

Nevan_PTF

All your mains belong to me!
S1 is one of the best S1 AAs in the game. Easy to confirm into B12 as well.


Here:

  1. Record a video clip of something that has just happened:
    Press the SHARE button when you're playing a game and you've done something amazing that you'd like to share in a video form.
  2. Record a video clip of something that's about to happen:
    Press the SHARE button twice at the start of the scene you want to save, and then press the SHARE button again at the end of the scene. A video clip can be saved with a maximum of the past 15 minutes of Gameplay video. The 15 minutes are measured backward from the moment when you press the SHARE button to end the scene.
To change the default recording length, go to [Share Settings] > [Video Clip Settings] > [Length of Video Clip] and choose from 1,3,5,10, and 15 minutes.
Ahhhh!!! Now that makes sense! I'm going to try it =) Tyvm Zviko!

Regarding the AA, alright I'll stick to that and practice the conversion from it. Ty!
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I like to use a simple D2 or F1 if they jump his arch can AA them but imo it's a bit risky, if you mistime it you eat a jk to the face or a jip starter.
 
I'm moving the discussion to this thread since it's more appropriate than derailing Marlow's combo thread further:

It did work but like I said I can't replay the video, I know he did more damage I have a good longterm memory and he did over 40% months ago now it's 37. I know because in the combo thread nobody had posted that specific combo til I posted it...
No, it didn't. It never happened.
You once mentioned that I'm good at noticing the details. If Raiden was dealing extra damage unexpectedly based on the character he was hitting I promise you I would have noticed it. However, the fact is you are unable to provide proof for your claim, and since it's something that would be easily verified and how we understand the game to work from a programming standpoint we have to assume that it didn't happen.

It doesn't matter if the specific combo you posted hadn't appeared in the combo thread until you posted it (which I doubt, but we can always check), the damage discrepancy would have appeared on any combo when using it between the characters you had listed. It's not as if nobody but you has ever used that combo either, so again this doesn't make a difference. Also, I can't really take your word for it since you got the combo damage wrong in your own post, saying it got fixed to 39 when it's actually 37.

It changed at some point a while ago but yeah I never said it don't work on the females, just that the damage used to be different with that one combo.
I know you didn't, I was responding to the person whom I quoted for that part.

The number of hits seemed more a year ago than now for the specific combo I am talking about.
The number of hits Raiden's attack deal has never changed for the entirety of this game's release.

But it's whatever, they're all even now so that's all that matters.
I think when you make a wild claim, fail to back it up, then double down on it when it can no longer be proven, that is also something that matters.
 
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