Kitana General Discussion

[M2Dave]

That is a very passive aggressive attitude you have there mister.

I have no intentions of offending anyone and I apologize if I did. I am genuinely saying what is on my mind.

This forum is as bad as Johnny Cage one with all the buff suggestions, downplaying, complaining, whining, etc.

 

[kevkopdx]

Says no intention of offending, proceeds to insult the forum, lol...
Not sure why it’s so hard to understand that a lot of people do not like highborn’s play style and have no desire to play it. Telling people to shut up and play highborn isn’t a solution.
I play fearless, I don’t care if it kind of sucks but I can understand why everyone wants kitana to play like she’s always played.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Highborn has always been the best variation and always will be. The only reason Highborn was not the best variation on day was because of lack of functionality and consistency on razors.

I have no idea why you and several other Kitana players advocate for Highborn to be "nerfed and tweaked" just so your wishful buffs for Fan-Fare could finally be realized. Fan-Fare will never be as good as Highborn by design.

To me, Kitana is tournament viable. She is as good as she will ever be in this game because NRS are not going to watch StarCharger's YouTube suggestions and buff every single normal attack.

Besides, even if Highborn were to be nerfed and Fan-Fare were to be buffed, many of you would still be complaining about how how she is not good enough.

As I have said, play Highborn and just shut up already.

Dave, you're fantastic and I value lots of your info and opinion. However, saying "shut up and play Highborne" is wrong.

You're looking at this specifically from a competitive standpoint where one good variation means the character is fine.

Yet from a perspective of someone who loves the character casual or not, we want the best gameplay we can get which comes in three different flavors via the variation system. Unfortunately in Kitana's current state, while we have the option to play these variations, the two besides highborne are lacking and need help in order for the variation system to not be.. "abysmal" for the princess. But not just her, but the entire roster who's name is not Geras, Liu Kang, or Jacqui.

And as the recent patches have showed, NRS wants the lesser used variations up to that standard. They don't need to touch highborne, in fact, I can only hope they mainly focus on Fanfare. However, one of the flaws of the variation system is universal frame data, so here we are: stuck with a character who has flaws in her design and we need changes to even out the playing field.

 

[ShredMinor]

Highborn has always been the best variation and always will be. The only reason Highborn was not the best variation on day was because of lack of functionality and consistency on razors.

I have no idea why you and several other Kitana players advocate for Highborn to be "nerfed and tweaked" just so your wishful buffs for Fan-Fare could finally be realized. Fan-Fare will never be as good as Highborn by design.

To me, Kitana is tournament viable. She is as good as she will ever be in this game because NRS are not going to watch StarCharger's YouTube suggestions and buff every single normal attack.

Besides, even if Highborn were to be nerfed and Fan-Fare were to be buffed, many of you would still be complaining about how how she is not good enough.

As I have said, play Highborn and just shut up already.

I'm not advocating nerfs or tweaks to highborn, I said that in the event she becomes too strong, she can always be looked at. As with any character.

 

[ShredMinor]

I have no intentions of offending anyone and I apologize if I did. I am genuinely saying what is on my mind.

This forum is as bad as Johnny Cage one with all the buff suggestions, downplaying, complaining, whining, etc.

Speaking for myself I took no offence so it's ok.

Kitana as a whole is very rounded and has a bit of everything but literally none of it is the best in its class, this equals a great character in my opinion which I can play with my own stamp on the character, she feels free to be played however you want. I play her because I believe in her.

I know people are quick to scream buff and nerf suggestions and I'm not that sort of person (I barely post in this forum) but I'm sure alot of us here know how fan-fare in particular is lacking and my suggestions come out of sheer frustration and experience. I hope you can understand this.

 

[xWildx]

No one’s going to take the bitch seriously until they fix her normals anyway. Even with Highborn’s “pressure” you’re then in the face of the majority of the cast with better buttons up close.

9 frame mids, 6 frame pokes, low profiling attacks, and RNG frame data on razors are no friends to Kitana, and Kitana’s back walk speed (and back dash) make even whiff punishing difficult in certain scenarios.

Fact of the matter is, Kitana doesn’t do anything particularly well in this game that other characters don’t do even better. We play her because we love her.

Give me a fucking Injustice 2, Catwoman-level whiff punisher with fans to keep opponents in check and then maybe we’ll be onto something. Until then, all you really have to do to beat Kitana is disrespect her ass. In KL you can mop, but if someone knows the MU and her staggers? GG.

 

[Benlo]

As I have said, play Highborn and just shut up already

No, thanks. I don't wanna play Fake Kitana, personal opinion.

I appreciate Fan-Fare and Fearless, the only two bad things about these two :

- the parry is kinda useless. Can't parry two projectiles.

- fan-nado too slow, should be as faster as the regular one.

And Kitana's useless strings, of course (21434, 21222, 3212), because of the hitboxes issues, the whiffs etc.

But I think Fan Fare and Fearless are, though, functionnal, now, with the previous updates.

 

[chrisisnice]

I have no intentions of offending anyone and I apologize if I did. I am genuinely saying what is on my mind.

This forum is as bad as Johnny Cage one with all the buff suggestions, downplaying, complaining, whining, etc.

I understand a lot of what you are saying from a technical standpoint, and respect your opinion on a competitive level.... however... what I don't think you understand , and probably never will, is that Kitana is a massive character loyalist character. She is easily one of the biggest in the game - I have seen the same people in her forums since MK9. Your opinions, as valid as they are, at times are like a bull in a china shop. You don't have a character loyalist bone in your body, which is fine, but the majority here are.

Basically, saying to people "shut up and play Highborn" is never going to be well received. Kitana fans don’t want their favorite character in the series to be reduced to a lame Mileena (just like they didn't want a lame Jade with Mournful). This is why people are upset and wanting buffs for their "real" Kitana variations and nerfs for Highborn.

Personally, I would just want Ground War a base ability, and just have it clash with Mileena Stance. Then make some fixes to parry. This would give a small buff to the others without nerfing Highborn.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Wow.. found a new problem where 21222 the second hit randomly whiffs because s2 has pushback

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Have you guys fought soul master Shang Tsung? He feels like a very bad matchup between a parry that beats all our zoning options, and a slide as well. We can't punish max distance Ermac left either unless we're in fanfare

That variation is very strong anti zoning so yeah

 

[gitblame]

To be honest, if NRS would simply just fix B231 in any way that it cannot be punished on random jump on hit. Make standing 2 and / or sanding 3 faster I would be happy. And loose a little butt special move krushing blow requirement. It would help fan-fare and won't make highborn and fearless broken imo.

If I had to describe Kitana in one sentence after playing her 8 months, it would be:
Her basic toolkit is just terrible and she is as good as good her variation moves are and how they work in her specific variations.

Highborn currently just works the best. Variation moves of Highborn complements probably all her basic issues and turns it into stagger machine with ridiculous chip damage and screen control.
B231 whiffs? No problem. I will just to B2 razors. People react to my staggers? Now I have multiple stagger options with razors, stance cancels and cutting strings in half. People outzone me? I have teleport. I can build ton of momentum with sai. Bad OKI? I don't deal with wakeups and even if I do I can setup sai to be more than +20 on block.
Yeah, I know shit can be make so it whiffs. And you can falwless block 3rd fan of edenian razors after her mids, but she can counter that counter, so she is always up in that mindgame, because it is the Kitana player who is in the driving seat.
My only problem is that with Highborn I have to commit to post razors guessing mind game. Even though I have more information and control, I still make my decision on a guess how exactly on block those razors were. But it's more mine issue than character issue.

Fearless is good and in my opionon slept on. It's currently my main and I don't really thinking of going back to Highborn. Fan-nando gives her ridiculous space control tool and make every projectile trade on her favor. Combine that with low fan, and there are hardly any characters that can outzone her. Low fan is also ridiculous turn steal tool. The only better one I can think of is Kung Lao's orbiting hat. She also keeps her damage from her main mid - B14. And unlike Fan-fare when she opens you up there is more chance you won't have any meter for breakaways, because you already spent it before for example to breakaway from raw fan-nando that you got hit by trying to get in.
There are 2 issues that prevents Fearless from being the best Kitana's variation. The first one is her lack of damage from her fast punisher. That's why in some matchups when she can't really play defensively (Scorpion, Soul Eater Shang) she turns into worse fan-fare. The second one is that ex low fan is punishable on flawless block even without using meter.

Fan-fare's problem is that her variation moves does not really complement her basic weakensses. Unlike Fearless she cannot force you to spent defensive meter without opening you up first. She only really adds another layer to her already strong jumpin game. And butt reversal that can help with specific matchups. She needs a little more. For now I only use her as utility variation for some matchups when I need that damage from fast punisher and butt reversal.

 

[Shale101]

To be honest, if NRS would simply just fix B231 in any way that it cannot be punished on random jump on hit. Make standing 2 and / or sanding 3 faster I would be happy. And loose a little butt special move krushing blow requirement. It would help fan-fare and won't make highborn and fearless broken imo.

If I had to describe Kitana in one sentence after playing her 8 months, it would be:
Her basic toolkit is just terrible and she is as good as good her variation moves are and how they work in her specific variations.

Highborn currently just works the best. Variation moves of Highborn complements probably all her basic issues and turns it into stagger machine with ridiculous chip damage and screen control.
B231 whiffs? No problem. I will just to B2 razors. People react to my staggers? Now I have multiple stagger options with razors, stance cancels and cutting strings in half. People outzone me? I have teleport. I can build ton of momentum with sai. Bad OKI? I don't deal with wakeups and even if I do I can setup sai to be more than +20 on block.
Yeah, I know shit can be make so it whiffs. And you can falwless block 3rd fan of edenian razors after her mids, but she can counter that counter, so she is always up in that mindgame, because it is the Kitana player who is in the driving seat.
My only problem is that with Highborn I have to commit to post razors guessing mind game. Even though I have more information and control, I still make my decision on a guess how exactly on block those razors were. But it's more mine issue than character issue.

Fearless is good and in my opionon slept on. It's currently my main and I don't really thinking of going back to Highborn. Fan-nando gives her ridiculous space control tool and make every projectile trade on her favor. Combine that with low fan, and there are hardly any characters that can outzone her. Low fan is also ridiculous turn steal tool. The only better one I can think of is Kung Lao's orbiting hat. She also keeps her damage from her main mid - B14. And unlike Fan-fare when she opens you up there is more chance you won't have any meter for breakaways, because you already spent it before for example to breakaway from raw fan-nando that you got hit by trying to get in.
There are 2 issues that prevents Fearless from being the best Kitana's variation. The first one is her lack of damage from her fast punisher. That's why in some matchups when she can't really play defensively (Scorpion, Soul Eater Shang) she turns into worse fan-fare. The second one is that ex low fan is punishable on flawless block even without using meter.

Fan-fare's problem is that her variation moves does not really complement her basic weakensses. Unlike Fearless she cannot force you to spent defensive meter without opening you up first. She only really adds another layer to her already strong jumpin game. And butt reversal that can help with specific matchups. She needs a little more. For now I only use her as utility variation for some matchups when I need that damage from fast punisher and butt reversal.

WOW.....it's been 8 months......where has the time gone? Kitana has always been my main but I put her on the back burner in this game for Jade waiting and hoping that one day she would resemble a kitana I know and love. I guess im facing a reality that I didn't want to ........I'm just never going to like her or play her in this game. sigh......

 

[M2Dave]

However, one of the flaws of the variation system is universal frame data, so here we are: stuck with a character who has flaws in her design and we need changes to even out the playing field.

The variation system does not work for the vast majority of characters. Jacqui, Geras, and arguably a couple of other characters are exceptions to the rule because they have powerful universal normal attacks as well as special moves.

No one’s going to take the bitch seriously until they fix her normals anyway. Even with Highborn’s “pressure” you’re then in the face of the majority of the cast with better buttons up close.

Aside from hitbox inconsistencies on certain normal attacks, there is nothing to fix. She does not have fast mid strings because she is a zoning character by design. Cetrion and Johnny Cage do not have fast mid strings for the same reason.

Fact of the matter is, Kitana doesn’t do anything particularly well in this game that other characters don’t do even better. We play her because we love her.

You are right about Fan-Fare and Fearless, but Highborn does lots of things particularly well that many characters do not. I have mentioned and discussed them a dozen times by now.

No, thanks. I don't wanna play Fake Kitana, personal opinion.

I appreciate Fan-Fare and Fearless, the only two bad things about these two :

- the parry is kinda useless. Can't parry two projectiles.

- fan-nado too slow, should be as faster as the regular one.

And Kitana's useless strings, of course (21434, 21222, 3212), because of the hitboxes issues, the whiffs etc.

But I think Fan Fare and Fearless are, though, functionnal, now, with the previous updates.

Neither one of those buffs would change Fan-Fare or Fearless dramatically and people like you would continue complaining about how the "Fake Kitana" (i.e., Highborn) remains superior to the "Real Kitana" (i.e., Fan-Fare and Fearless).

In order to make changes that matter, NRS would, for example, have to remove the gap for EX fan toss, which would turn the move into another EX rising star.

You're looking at this specifically from a competitive standpoint where one good variation means the character is fine.

I understand a lot of what you are saying from a technical standpoint, and respect your opinion on a competitive level.... however... what I don't think you understand , and probably never will, is that Kitana is a massive character loyalist character. She is easily one of the biggest in the game - I have seen the same people in her forums since MK9. Your opinions, as valid as they are, at times are like a bull in a china shop. You don't have a character loyalist bone in your body, which is fine, but the majority here are.

This point is well-taken although I personally could not care less about character loyalty.

As far as the variation system is concerned, I am well aware that the system is impractical. I have said my piece on various occasions so I am moving forward. If one variation is clearly above the other two, so be it.

 

[Dogeofthesea]

I found it very ridiculous that NRS completely changed her design from MK9 - MKX to MK11. Why nerf fix things that aren't broken?

 

[xKhaoTik]

It’s funny how Kung Lao can use multiple spins in a combo but Kitana can’t use more than one fan. Sad since she’s known for her fan juggles lol

 

[Juxtapose]

It’s funny how Kung Lao can use multiple spins in a combo but Kitana can’t use more than one fan. Sad since she’s known for her fan juggles lol

I am happy they at least added the option to spend a Bar of Offensive Gauge with Air Fan Toss to extend combos. That's something.

Though perhaps it's just me being old-man-slow again, but I find I oft just miss being able to connect after doing so. I'd love for a few frames to be added to make it a smidge easier.

 

[armani]

It’s funny how Kung Lao can use multiple spins in a combo but Kitana can’t use more than one fan. Sad since she’s known for her fan juggles lol

what makes me even more pissed is that Stephanie made a remark during her kombo kast that the kitana community gave her this combo queen status off the random, like we pulled it out of our ass.

huge slap in the face tbh.

 

[DarkSado]

what makes me even more pissed is that Stephanie made a remark during her kombo kast that the kitana community gave her this combo queen status off the random, like we pulled it out of our ass.

huge slap in the face tbh.

Yea I remember that even though she call her combo queen on her first shown on the kombat kast.

 

[exflyingbooty]

what makes me even more pissed is that Stephanie made a remark during her kombo kast that the kitana community gave her this combo queen status off the random, like we pulled it out of our ass.

huge slap in the face tbh.

it's not like all through out her entire existence except mk11 and maybe deception she had long combos

 

[xKhaoTik]

So Kitana can combo after her amp up fan in the corner. Not sure if this is intentional or not but amp up fan is +12 on hit, and you can link into s1 afterwards

for example, you can do b231 amp up fan 12 lift and do whatever. Air fan juggles also.

Sad part is, this is the closest to a real Kitana you can get, and it’s not even tournament viable and probably not intentional lol.

 

[MagicMan357]

@xKhaoTik bro what you said about kung lao being able to do 2 spins is one of my huge turn offs about mk11. Why can Sindel do a double launcher but kano cant? Like this kind of shit is maddening beyond reasoning.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Man I’m done with fan fare lol

I was fighting a Sonya player and he did onion ring. I reacted to it and did royal protection. Tell me why this bitch was still able to use another onion ring and hit me during the recovery of the last protection mannnnnnn. It counted as a punish.

I can’t use this variation anymore lol.

 

[Zviko]

Man I’m done with fan fare lol

I was fighting a Sonya player and he did onion ring. I reacted to it and did royal protection. Tell me why this bitch was still able to use another onion ring and hit me during the recovery of the last protection mannnnnnn. It counted as a punish.

I can’t use this variation anymore lol.

I really don't understand why it can't be like Terminator's absorb thing where you can hold it and absorb multiple. The buff you get is not even good. At least make it good anti zoning tool.

 

[DarkSado]

Man I’m done with fan fare lol

I was fighting a Sonya player and he did onion ring. I reacted to it and did royal protection. Tell me why this bitch was still able to use another onion ring and hit me during the recovery of the last protection mannnnnnn. It counted as a punish.

I can’t use this variation anymore lol.

I been complaining for that for the longest lol

 

[xKhaoTik]

I been complaining for that for the longest lol

I didn’t know it was that bad lol. I did some further testing and you can legit get full combo punished for REACTING TO A PROJECTILE.

For example, if you do it against Kabal’s straight saws, he can nomad dash during the recovery of the protection and get a full combo. Sub can slide in certain ranges. Same with Liu and his flying kick.

Obviously you can just walk and duck but that defeats the whole entire purpose of a “projectile parry”. This is so bad lmao