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Tom's Incident Has Made it to Esports Mainstream News

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I meant to add this; I played independent league Minor League baseball. I know what it means to chase a dream. I'm glad I have my education and I was able to rely on that as my plan A when baseball didn't work out the way I wanted.
Likewise I'm still supported by my passion and I wouldn't have made it if I'd listened to people like you. I'm glad I didn't.

I understood the risks, and it's paid off a thousand times over. Thus, different people have to choose different paths in life. My path might not be right for you. It's the beauty of living in a free society where we're free to make our own choices.
 

portent

Noob
I'd prefer my kids to follow their passions and talents. There are myriad ways to build a new career after one did not work out. It's the beauty of the first world we're living in. But there is no way to replace having done something you truly love. It's fulfilling in a way that many people will not understand.

I think it's important to educate people on the potential risks of doing so, so that they're aware. But to discourage people from pursuing something just because it might not work out is soulless.

If your kid doesn't like math, no amount of force-feeding it to them is going to guarantee them a happy life. There are plenty of dropouts for other reasons than athletics, plenty of people who quit 'promising' careers due to burnout to pursue their passions, and are much happier for it, etc. Life isn't as black and white as you're trying to make it out to be.
You're assuming too much. I never said I won't back my kids' passions and talents. Lord knows I spend enough time taking one to indoor winter baseball twice a week because he "wants to be like dad".

I tell him that baseball is second to his education. That part is black and white to me. If the time comes that he's drafted and can expand to professional athletics, then that's excellent. If his shoulder blows out from throwing too hard and he hasn't learned anything useful to earn a living because I negleted to encourage him to follow athletics over his education, that's just bad parenting.
 

portent

Noob
Likewise I'm still supported by my passion and I wouldn't have made it if I'd listened to people like you. I'm glad I didn't.

I understood the risks, and it's paid off a thousand times over. Thus, different people have to choose different paths in life. My path might not be right for you. It's the beauty of living in a free society where we're free to make our own choices.
You sound very educated. So you're telling me that education got you nowhere? You're telling me that what you do on a daily for a living has nothing to do with what you learned? If that's the case, then you're one of the lucky ones. Very few people "make it" that way. Most of us aren't golden and have to rely on our education.

Education is the foundation and the building block. I'm sorry bro, but I'm one of the ones that chased a dream and it didn't work out. I got hurt. I'll never walk correctly again. I have that experience. So yes, you're one of the lucky ones, and I am one of the smart ones. That doesn't mean you aren't smart, it means I was smart enough to know that "Plan A" existed if "Plan C" failed because of any specific reason.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
You're assuming too much. I never said I won't back my kids' passions and talents. Lord knows I spend enough time taking one to indoor winter baseball twice a week because he "wants to be like dad".

I tell him that baseball is second to his education. That part is black and white to me. If the time comes that he's drafted and can expand to professional athletics, then that's excellent. If his shoulder blows out from throwing too hard and he hasn't learned anything useful to earn a living because I negleted to encourage him to follow athletics over his education, that's just bad parenting.
If you prepare your kids to learn, nothing will stop them. There is a reason that so many of the most successful business are founded by people who either dropped out of school, or never went. Or were terrible students anyway. It's that ability to learn is not tied to your level of education -- it's tied to your mindset.

Anyone who can learn the skills necessary to analyze the frame data and matchups for 30 characters in a fighting game, and figure out how to defeat other people who are doing the same, in a high-pressure environment that is unforgiving of mistakes, has the tools necessary to transition to a new career, college degree or no.

It's about their attitude, plain and simple. Do they have work ethic? Are they willing to tackle something new?

Telling people in 2019 that if they have to transition career at 30, their life is basically over and they may as well hang it up unless they have a fancy degree, is silly. There are plenty of unemployed people sitting around with their college degrees, ultimately having to find work in a field where their degree does not benefit them. And there are plenty of other happily employed people who never went. Life isn't black and white.
 

portent

Noob
Telling people in 2019 that if they have to transition career at 30, their life is basically over and they may as well hang it up unless they have a fancy degree, is silly.
As you can see below from my own posts that I've quoted, I've never said that life is over if you have take on a new career. I've said that education before dreams, or more appropriately, education while chasing dreams.

The truth is, there is no sense in professional gaming as a conscious career path, same goes for professional athletics. If you HAPPEN to be talented and you chase it as plan C while working on plans A and B, then good. If not, then learn to be happy living in Mom and Dad's basement all while donating to the pot for the winners of each major you attend.
Being a professional gamer is not a smart career path. The likelihood of it happening is so small, that you're better off with it being "plan C".
What @M2Dave is trying to get across is that gaming isn't really a good "Plan A" career choice.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
There are plenty of unemployed people sitting around with their college degrees, ultimately having to find work in a field where their degree does not benefit them. And there are plenty of other happily employed people who never went. Life isn't black and white.
Actually, life is black and white in this instance. The data are as clear as the sky on a hot summer night.



Speaking of unemployment...



Teachers exhibit posters of such statistics in their classrooms in order to discourage students from dropping out of high school and encourage them to pursue additional education after graduation.

The objective is not to be presumptuous or pessimistic. Teachers study these statistics because they want the best for their students. Playing fighting games competitively as plan A is simply not the best for students, yet many adolescence in the FGC will unfortunately follow this plan.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
It really depends on the field of work you're going into whether or not school makes a difference. For what I want to do, college won't do shit for me and I save money on tuitions, costs that I'll end up paying off for years. Of course if you want to be a doctor, lawyer or something then college, school is required. Then you have actors, entertainers, rappers and athletes who never went a day to college yet make more than people with any kind of degree. I also believe alot of it has to do with how fortunate you are. Sometimes it's not what you know, it's who you know.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Actually, life is black and white in this instance. The data are as clear as the sky on a hot summer night.



Speaking of unemployment...



Teachers exhibit posters of such statistics in their classrooms in order to discourage students from dropping out of high school and encourage them to pursue additional education after graduation.

The objective is not to be presumptuous or pessimistic. Teachers study these statistics because they want the best for their students. Playing fighting games competitively as plan A is simply not the best for students, yet many adolescence in the FGC will unfortunately follow this plan.
You're talking about degrees of average income, which was not at all what was being discussed here.

The route to maximizing your income is an entirely different topic. But in fact, many people end up giving up some percentage of income in order to do something they actually enjoy (including you, Dave).

I'm speaking about being happy, fulfilled, and being able to support yourself, which is something sheer income doesn't address.

You're also posting a 4% unemployment rate vs. 2% as being catastrophic. The truth is that the majority of Americans (55%) do not have a college degree, and the vast majority of those people are still employed.

The point is not to minimize colleges as a means of education -- but to dispel the notion that not having a degree at 30 means unemployment and a hopeless life.
 
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Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
People keep saying "This will be forgotten soon"... but people keep bringing it up and talking about it.
by soon we mean like 6months to a year. Some people will always care, like say the people that still hate Aries for the sexist comments on that show, but the majority of people will move on and forget about it and the new people will not even know about it. So after a while, his vids will come back and people will start to begin to follow him again. It will come up in chat now and then.. but few will care and nothing will change. Shit happens, life keeps going.. for eveyone.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
looks like he has started posting new vids again already.... good on him. Get right back into it I say.

 

NeonGroovyGator

Vampire mommy simp
Isn't getting higher education trending downwards in terms of value in the US right now, depending on the field of study? I only hear bad things about it especially considering the amount of people going to college growing while employment doesn't necessarily grow. I'm genuinely asking because in my country some fields are pretty much MLM schemes in the sense that if you're studying something that's too niche your best hope is that you're one of the lucky few that manages to get into academia and teach that very niche thing to other people, since it has little to no real world applications.
In other words, is going to college really worth it if you're not into STEM?
I'd imagine a lot of fields in the US are the same or even worse considering college education is expensive af (at least I'm not paying for my education out of my own pocket. I mean I get it taxpayer money blah blah but at least I won't have to pay college debt for years after graduating).
EDIT: besides I legit don't think academia is for everyone. I'd be most definitely not studying right now if I had more initiative or confidence like some of my family members do, I'm just too much of a pushover to not have a clear path to follow.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
Isn't getting higher education trending downwards in terms of value in the US right now, depending on the field of study? I only hear bad things about it especially considering the amount of people going to college growing while employment doesn't necessarily grow.
People say vaccinations are bad and the earth is flat.
 
While this is bad this doesn't even top the top 3 for most disgusting displays of humanity in the world. Anyone remember the dude and his girlfriend who acted as if they were war vets and disfigured and disabled in wheelchairs only to find out they weren't and scammed out thousands worth of money for several months from people? Brady hasn't stooped to that level yet and while he's a piece of crap for trying to scam people out of their monies, he is in NO WAY that bad of a human being that he deserves to be sent death threats and what not.

And what's worst is for all the good he did for this community, no one will ever recognize that anymore and will continue to keep shoving this down our throats -- again, let me clarify I am in NO SHAPE defending him but let us not forget those things either. P.S. I despise that SJW wannabe reporter... The SonicFox fanboying he was doing was literally too much. Like I get you agree with him but don't make it too obvious you're on his team as opposed to having neutral-based coverage.
 
As a long time Brady fan, I hope he's forever remembered as a fraud. He was always my favorite player and as a Sub main I looked up to him since the MK9 days. What he did is inexcusable, and while I overlooked his constant childish behavior and attention-seeking I can't overlook this a neither should anybody else. The guy is a mess, he needs to face real consequences after all this shit. Maybe he'll learn from it, maybe he won't, either way, he shouldn't be allowed to be relevant on this community anymore. He crossed the line.
"What he did was inexcusable..." Oh my gosh you're going way overboard now. It's not like he's a domestic terrorist going around shooting up kids and adults in mall or something and it's not like he hijacked a plane and drove it and the people in it into a damn building.

Y'all really trying to grief this man like he's Hitler or Osama Bin Laden and that's in no way, shape, or form anywhere close to all of that. He scammed people out of their money and deserves to be accounted for it but jeez stop acting like he killed your mother or your favorite animal.
 

portent

Noob
Isn't getting higher education trending downwards in terms of value in the US right now, depending on the field of study?
I don't have statistics, but I'm not so sure I'd call it "trending downward". It's more like more value is being placed on vocational jobs, blue collar work and jobs that don't require a fancy piece of paper to do. In the US, many of these are rewarding, high paying careers. Most people don't know, but sanitation workers (garbage men and women) make a HUGE salary, get a pension, and some of the best health benefits in the country. That job requires little to no experience and no college education.

Trade workers, like electricians, plumbers, etc all have the potential to out-earn most college level educated people.

I am a college drop out. I never finished. I'm lucky in that I made the best of my time in college and applied it extremely well to my industry.

That said, I'm also a prime example of someone who had a plan based on athletics and it fell through, and what time I had in college was my "Plan A". I honestly thought I was headed for the MLB. I was scouted, I went to college to play ball as well. I got hurt, shredded my knee and that was the end of my playing career. I tried to comeback through independent Minor League but by then my knee was too far gone and my age wasn't conducive to making a productive career out of baseball. "Plan A" may not have been my PREFERRED choice, but it was my primary choice and I'm glad I had it on standby when "Plan C" failed.
 
Dunno I think it'd be much easier if he'd actually come clean though. Even now he's acting like he actually been there and just lost the receipts or whatever, so he had to forge the ridiculous ones he showed everybody.

I just can't deal with people that keep on lying while apologizing, because how can you take that apology serious?
 
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MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I agree with most regarding the gaming "professionally" is not a career, it's why I can't help but chuckle a little bit when someone says "oh he's a pro gamer" lol no he's a gamer with TONS of time and more money to waste on his hands to be able to game more than others. How I see it, as you get older your reflexes, hand eye coordination gets slower. You think SF will still be dominating people in NRS games 10-20 years from now vs new kids? Yeah....well are all the 2D era MK players dominating the current MK games? Hmmm exactly. Between aging and life, it's just not possible. I see it as a part time fun gig that you can enjoy for a certain period of time, especially once the game dies down

@portent Tough break about the MLB gig. I used to play myself but by the time I got more interested I was too old which was junior year high school, and my studies were my main concern which sucked because during tryouts I went 3 for 4 and coach said I had a good arm but I was competing with guys who were there 2 and half years already so I joined competitive yet casual leagues.

I think it depends on the career path we choose as to whether or not we can still do it. Like anything athletic you have to do younger and have luck with no injuries of course. Where as if you want to be a singer you can do that a little older even, so long as you're up to the travelling around part.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
You think SF will still be dominating people in NRS games 10-20 years from now vs new kids?
Most people won't be in their current career 10-20 years from now. We're a long way from the days where everyone just works at the factory until they're pensioned and collects retirement.

Some of us will, but many of us will have to switch jobs and careers. So just because Sonic might have moved on after a decade dominating fighting games, and have earned over a million in the process, while doing what he loves, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile now.

Also, we have plenty examples of older players dominating games well past their supposed 'young player' prime. Kazunoko is in his 30s, Mago, Tokkido, and Fuudo are in their thirties and just beat out many players younger than them to make Top 8 at Capcom Cup last week,

Bonchan was 2nd place in CPT earnings this year and he's in his 30s as well. He made over $56,000 this year in winnings, not including his Red Bull sponsorship just to play a fighting game. Not bad.
 
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MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Most people won't be in their current career 10-20 years from now. We're a long way from the days where everyone just works at the factory until they're pensioned and collects retirement.

Some of us will, but many of us will have to switch jobs and careers. So just because Sonic might have moved on after a decade dominating fighting games, and have earned over a million in the process, while doing what he loves, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile now.

Also, we have plenty examples of older players dominating games well past their supposed 'young player' prime. Kazunoko is in his 30s, Mago, Tokkido, and Fuudo are in their thirties and just beat out many players younger than them to make Top 8 at Capcom Cup,

Bonchan was 2nd place in CPT earnings this year and he's in his 30s as well. According to esportsearnings he made over $56,000 this year to play a fighting game. Not bad.
It depends on the person and age. Some will be others not so much. My dad stayed with his company for 45 years. Not a factory job but office job, he also got it without any kind of degrees though he did go to college for a few years.

That's what I'm saying although after his good gaming resume of being good at a few fgs, even if he did tally a million theres still taxes and his Bill's so probably a bit less than that. I believe he went to school as I recall so he probably put some towards that I'm sure, family, Bill's etc. Yeah he can afford to do it now I was just saying down the line he probably wont be or wind up doing it less due to other priorities.

Yeah, I mean every gaming community is different like smash seems to have a lot of younger players as oppose to other fg in the genre. Alot of the tetris worlds best players are older or in their layer 30s usually. I think it depends on the game/franchise as well.