Tom's Incident Has Made it to Esports Mainstream News

[Dankster Morgan]

Correct. He, among others, also dropped out of college at that time to pursue a "career" in playing fighting games competitively.

And people wonder why 30+ year old gamers like me stopped traveling and playing fighting games competitively. Albeit I am far from the golden standard, we stopped not because we are too old to react to throws and overheads. We are simply not foolish to work for $11 an hour. I personally make very good money doing what I like and I have three months of vacation, at which time I can enjoy playing fighting games competitively and casually.

That's it right there man, I'm still in college but I'll be there some day

 

[NaughtySenpai]

A few points on this:

1) If a professional esports player’s career doesn’t matter because they don’t make millions, then 99% of other jobs don’t matter either.

2) Not every sports sponsorship is Nike. There are plenty of other sponsorships that have come and go over the years. But with brands like Coca Cola becoming involved with brands like Overwatch League, etc., it’s only a matter of time until big name brands are backing esports players as well.

3) How many pro athletes have a Nike shoe deal? It’s the vast minority. But plenty of athletes have smaller sponsors and do fine. When one deal ends, they find another, just like Sonic will after Echo Fox.

4) Sponsorships like Nike were built over years incrementally. Someone like Lebron is able to earn millions today because of all the people who paved the way for him. Sonic Fox has been able to earn a living playing games because of people who came before him and made less. And Sonic will pave the way for some kid in the next generation to make a lot more than he makes (as has happened in several other esports). We should be lauding these people, as they’re helping to build the future.

5) Plenty of people in this country will end up broke in their 30s for reasons other than “I played fighting games for a living”. And just like the gamers, most of them will just find another job and ultimately be fine. I think it’s a little presumptuous to say that having to reboot one’s work environment basically makes them useless to society. It’s not like Valle or LI Joe is living out the street in a cardboard box. People move on.

Yeah people acting like regular jobs were safe and shit.
Go ask those people who built cars for all their life in Detroit or in my homeland Germany all the motherfuckers mining coal.

And it's not like your fucking life is over because you lost your job at 30 or 40, or never had one in the first place because you were a pro gamer. I'm 38 becoming a social worker in 2 years and worked as a butcher before that.

Who the fuck even wants to do the same job for 40+ years in a row unless you hit the jackpot and get paid for getting your dick sucked or something?

There's plenty of reasons why you'd have to or just simply want to change your profession in your 30's or even 40's and that's not really a problem.

 

[MK9]

Tom has been around since umk3, when you actually had to leave your house to play, and couldn’t troll behind a tag name.

 

[GLoRToR]

Wake up.

ALL THE STREAMERS ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY FOR FREE.

They are doing NOTHING of actual worth that they should get paid for but you STILL pay them.

Stop vilifying Tom he's not the first or the last one to rip people off and get money for playing a computer game instead of getting a job.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Wake up.

ALL THE STREAMERS ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY FOR FREE.

They are doing NOTHING of actual worth that they should get paid for but you STILL pay them.

Stop vilifying Tom he's not the first or the last one to rip people off and get money for playing a computer game instead of getting a job.

Lol @ villifying.

There’s a big difference between people subbing because they like your content and giving you hundreds of extra dollars to make it to a tournament you don’t attend.

And if you create a joint channel with someone else, you should give them their share of the funds.

I don’t even know why this is debatable.

 

[deathblooms2k4]

Feel bad for the Tom and also the people he wronged. He seems like a good person but he needs to change his priorities and look at what really makes him happy and those of you who want to help need to stop feeding him false hope. His early success seems to have been a detriment as he's grasped at those straws for years now. I think chasing dreams is great but at some point you have to self reflect, look at the costs financially, mentally and physically.

It doesn't mean you have to leave the community, or stop playing the games you like. Just that a change in perspective and priorities would likely lead to a healthier overall state of mind. A lot of presumptions here, but I've watched Tom for a long time. Just my 2 cents.

 

[HeavyNorse]

He seems like a good person

I've only heard the bad things.
What good things has he done to make you say this?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

He seems like a good person

How so

 

[deathblooms2k4]

Wake up.

ALL THE STREAMERS ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY FOR FREE.

They are doing NOTHING of actual worth that they should get paid for but you STILL pay them.

Stop vilifying Tom he's not the first or the last one to rip people off and get money for playing a computer game instead of getting a job.

No. They're providing entertainment. They're getting sponsors paid from the ads that are run. Many streamers spend countless hours building their stream, searching for sponsors, editing content, engaging with viewers. Is it a conventional blue collar job? No. But to say they're doing nothing of worth couldn't be further from the truth.

I think a lot of people have a foolish outlook on streaming. They think it's lazy and easy and just free money for doing nothing. But the reality is to actually make anything that will pay the bills requires a ridiculous amount of time and dedication. More hours than you'd commit into most full time jobs. Sure you only stream for 40 hours, but then you have another 20 hours of content creation, social media, etc. It can be depressing and lonely, the investment more often than not never pays off. The games you once enjoyed are no longer enjoyable because they're work now. Streaming is ridiculously top heavy. With only a very small percentage of streamers making enough. There are plenty of articles published by the likes of kotaku that go into detail about how gruelling becoming a successful streamer can be.

Would you say NRS does nothing of actual worth since they simply develop forms of entertainment for you?

 

[deathblooms2k4]

Just his demeanor. While often selfish it seems evident that he wants to be liked. His friends and many who have met him speak kindly of him. he's had a chip on his shoulder for years and not that he hasn't earned it but the community has often been extremely toxic to him so it's not without merit that his persona over the years has grown more and more negative.

This doesn't excuse or justify taking peoples money under false pretenses, paying those people back would be the right thing to do. But people are complicated and to simply reduce their character to nothing over some mistakes they've made seems harsh. Haha I could be wrong maybe he's just an asshole. Just seems like he wants to be recognized and liked which has been hard to do with the toxicity associated with some of his mistakes, and being overshadowed by a newer generation of competitive players.

 

[NeroOps]

What is this wannabe TMZ -_-

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Just his demeanor. While often selfish it seems evident that he wants to be liked. His friends and many who have met him speak kindly of him. he's had a chip on his shoulder for years and not that he hasn't earned it but the community has often been extremely toxic to him so it's not without merit that his persona over the years has grown more and more negative.

This doesn't excuse or justify taking peoples money under false pretenses, paying those people back would be the right thing to do. But people are complicated and to simply reduce their character to nothing over some mistakes they've made seems harsh. Haha I could be wrong maybe he's just an asshole. Just seems like he wants to be recognized and liked which has been hard to do with the toxicity associated with some of his mistakes, and being overshadowed by a newer generation of competitive players.

The community has never been toxic to Tom. Any pushback is just what he’s brought on himself, but his whole narrative of the community supposedly not supporting him is just a repetitive ploy to emotionally manipulate gullible people into feeling sorry for him.

 

[Orochi]

I think everyone should follow their dreams.

 

[GLoRToR]

Lol @ villifying.

There’s a big difference between people subbing because they like your content and giving you hundreds of extra dollars to make it to a tournament you don’t attend.

And if you create a joint channel with someone else, you should give them their share of the funds.

I don’t even know why this is debatable.

Eh, I'm trying to be a devil's advocate but I got nothing.
Facts are facts.

Burn him.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Tom is 40 or something old, right ? What really happens is .... simply is the traditional reality scenario of "time charging" catching .... lots of real life responsabilities to care about, so, no time anymore to dedicate to player career or whatever people call it these days when someone trying to be a pro level competitor in games ....

Besides, the current competitive level for fighting games is way much more demanding and hard today than 8-10 years ago .... no real motivation for older players to spending hours and money in trying to catch up with the new generation of players, that, for real, are better players than the old school dudes .... sad but true, yeah !

Of course his knowledge on fighting games, especially MK series, is very good and outstanding; the man is a living book about knowing regarding fighting games techniques and advancing topics about, no argument here about it.

Life is cruel, and ask for a lot of strategic choices and decisions ..... hehe

 

[portent]

Lol @ villifying.

There’s a big difference between people subbing because they like your content and giving you hundreds of extra dollars to make it to a tournament you don’t attend.

And if you create a joint channel with someone else, you should give them their share of the funds.

I don’t even know why this is debatable.

It's debatable because there is ZERO signed contract and ZERO legal obligation to spend donated money any other way than the recipient sees fit.

I am not saying it's moral. It's very immoral. I'm saying that Tom has zero legal obligation to use donated money for anything other than the way he saw fit.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

It's debatable because there is ZERO signed contract and ZERO legal obligation to spend donated money any other way than the recipient sees fit.

I am not saying it's moral. It's very immoral. I'm saying that Tom has zero legal obligation to use donated money for anything other than the way he saw fit.

Scumbaggery doesn't have lawbreaking as a prerequisite. It's still scumbaggery and people shouldn't put up with it.

Also civil judgements aren't dependent on criminal legality. People who were misled into giving up their money for a false cause, could easily be awarded In a civil trial.

I don't think this should go to trial, or that this was even the point of this thread or the video it's about -- but imo, your statement is sitting on some pretty questionable ground.

Regardless, my comment had nothing to do with whether it's illegal. It's wrong, period, and that's enough.

 

[portent]

Yeah people acting like regular jobs were safe and shit.
Go ask those people who built cars for all their life in Detroit or in my homeland Germany all the motherfuckers mining coal.

And it's not like your fucking life is over because you lost your job at 30 or 40, or never had one in the first place because you were a pro gamer. I'm 38 becoming a social worker in 2 years and worked as a butcher before that.

Who the fuck even wants to do the same job for 40+ years in a row unless you hit the jackpot and get paid for getting your dick sucked or something?

There's plenty of reasons why you'd have to or just simply want to change your profession in your 30's or even 40's and that's not really a problem.

Nobody is saying that changing jobs is a bad thing. What @M2Dave is trying to get across is that gaming isn't really a good "Plan A" career choice.

 

[portent]

Scumbaggery doesn't have lawbreaking as a prerequisite. It's still scumbaggery and people shouldn't put up with it.

Also civil judgements aren't dependent on criminal legality. People who were misled into giving up their money for a false cause, could easily be awarded In a civil trial.

I don't think this should go to trial, or that this was even the point of this thread or the video it's about -- but imo, your statement is sitting on some pretty questionable ground.

Regardless, my comment had nothing to do with whether it's illegal. It's wrong, period, and that's enough.

Please at least remember that I'm not even remotely condoning what was done. It's absolutely terrible and immoral. The worst part was the lying. Once caught, he absolutely should have told the full and honest truth. People will be more likely to forgive and not forget.

That said, how is this any different than the bum on the street begging for $1 for dollar menu at McDonald's and then uses your donated $1 to buy a beer?

What legal obligation did the bum have to actually buy a cheeseburger?

 

[xenogorgeous]

Nobody is saying that changing jobs is a bad thing. What @M2Dave is trying to get across is that gaming isn't really a good "Plan A" career choice.

Word.

In fact, it's a suicidal choice and major failure in life just opt for that, hehe

At least for fighting games ....

 

[CrimsonShadow]

What @M2Dave is trying to get across is that gaming isn't really a good "Plan A" career choice.

Neither is trying to make the Olympics, or being a professional figure skater, or a magician, a skateboarder, or a model or an actress. Neither is dropping everything to start a band and go on tour. People pursue those things because they love them and are passionate about them. And the chance that they may, for a while, be able to sustain themselves doing something they really love -- which is something 90% of people will never get to do in life -- is worth it to them.

If you haven't done it, you might not understand; but it's something you may only have one chance to do in life. Telling everyone who pursues their passion 100%, even when it's not a lifelong career, that they're foolish is silly. People should just accept the risks when doing so.

Without these people we wouldn't have a lot of the entertainment we're all consuming on a regular basis. And we wouldn't have most of the great art in history either.

 

[portent]

Neither is trying to make the Olympics, or being a professional figure skater, or a magician, a skateboarder, or a model or an actress. People pursue those things because they love them and are passionate about them. And the chance that they may, for a while, be able to sustain themselves doing something they really love -- which is something 90% of people will never get to do in life -- is worth it to them.

If you haven't done it, you might not understand; but it's something you may only have one chance to do in life. Telling everyone who pursues their passion 100%, even when it's not a lifelong career, that they're foolish is silly. People should just accept the risks when doing so.

Without these people we wouldn't have a lot of the entertainment we're all consuming on a regular basis.

How many olympians find a successful job in their sport (outside of coaching) following their run in the games? Most of them use what money the get from endorsements to further their education or invest it.

The talent pool for athletics, at the professional level is so small that anyone would be a fool to rely on that solely for a career. Too many outside factors. Injury, poor grades, questionable morality; all of these can lead to a quick end to a promising POSSIBILITY of an athletic career.

You're going to tell me that you want your children to bank their (and their family's) future on being a running back when some 360lb sasquatch wants to shred his knee into 47 pieces before he enters the NFL Draft? Sorry, I'll tell my kid to study his math instead. Play football secondarily and if you make it, you make it. If not, go make your money with your education.

 

[portent]

@CrimsonShadow likewise, I'm not going to teach my kids that playing video games for a living is the smart choice as well. If they're talented and are successful SECONDARILY, then go for it. I'm not going to let them make the mistake of foregoing education for a career where we consistently see things like;

-fan scamming
-scumbag gatekeeping (don't act like you don't know what it is or who does it)
-favoritism

there's more, but do I really need to go into why?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

How many olympians find a successful job in their sport (outside of coaching) following their run in the games? Most of them use what money the get from endorsements to further their education or invest it.

The talent pool for athletics, at the professional level is so small that anyone would be a fool to rely on that solely for a career. Too many outside factors. Injury, poor grades, questionable morality; all of these can lead to a quick end to a promising POSSIBILITY of an athletic career.

You're going to tell me that you want your children to bank their (and their family's) future on being a running back when some 360lb sasquatch wants to shred his knee into 47 pieces before he enters the NFL Draft? Sorry, I'll tell my kid to study his math instead. Play football secondarily and if you make it, you make it. If not, go make your money with your education.

I'd prefer my kids to follow their passions and talents. There are myriad ways to build a new career after one did not work out. It's the beauty of the first world we're living in. But there is no way to replace having done something you truly love. It's fulfilling in a way that many people will not understand.

I think it's important to educate people on the potential risks of doing so, so that they're aware. But to discourage people from pursuing something just because it might not work out is soulless.

If your kid doesn't like math, no amount of force-feeding it to them is going to guarantee them a happy life. There are plenty of dropouts for other reasons than athletics, plenty of people who quit 'promising' careers due to burnout to pursue their passions, and are much happier for it, etc. Life isn't as black and white as you're trying to make it out to be.

 

[portent]

If you haven't done it, you might not understand; but it's something you may only have one chance to do in life.

I meant to add this; I played independent league Minor League baseball. I know what it means to chase a dream. I'm glad I have my education and I was able to rely on that as my plan A when baseball didn't work out the way I wanted.