The most recent REO podcast episode is huge, and we should talk about it

[theotherguy]

Ok, so after all that... can we get an answer to the original question??

can someone please explain what makes MK more RPS than any other fighting game? Are they not all based around block beats attacks, throw beats block, attacks beat throws?

 

[trufenix]

Ok, so after all that... can we get an answer to the original question??

Because that's how it was designed. Also throwing encouraged.

 

[trufenix]

You don't see any significance between the fact that alot of top mk9 and mkx players think mk11 is shit? Let's face it, this game had everyone playing every character in the 1st two weeks.... mainly out of boredom

Top mkx players love mk11. Go watch a tournament, compare the names.

The only people who think mk11 is shit ALSO BITCHED THEIR ASSES OFF ABOUT I2, MKX, I1 AND DING DING MK9.

Also none of them compete anymore and they only play each other for MU knowledge. In short, they are no longer top players.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

Is anyone surprised that the professional bitchers from the NRS scene are bitching again?
Let's face it, the NRS community excels at complaining about a game for its entire lifespan then complaining when the game dies after two years because a new one comes out then complaining that the new game is garbage and the previous one was better.
The only difference now is that we're most likely having longer support for this specific game so people will have longer to bitch about MK11

 

[Juggs]

Is this really true? not trying to be a gerk, I'm genuinely curious. I don't know much about high-level poker, but wouldn't a pro's mindgames and bluffing be leagues above what a new player can manage? Isn't that what would let the pro consistently come out on top?

Yes but all that doesn’t matter if a new player flops the absolute best, unbeatable hand. In the long run a pro will do better more consistently than a bad or new player. But in any given hand or tournament, the pro can lose outright to a complete noob.

 

[Juggs]

Ive been a professional pokerplayer for 7 years and what you say is true, but thats only on small samplesize. The more hands a pro play against a casual, the more edge he gets. Even just how pocket aces is played can be a big difference in winrate.

Yes of course. In the long run a pro will perform better more consistently. That’s why in Poker you don’t judge how good someone is based on one tournament or even in 10,000 hands. That’s why when someone wins the biggest Poker tournament, the WSOP, then claim they’re the best the poker community laughs. You can be the absolute best player in the world and NEVER win the WSOP ME (main event). The more hands you play the more you can demonstrate how good you are by your consistency. But in competitive video games, a complete noob or a bad player has no chance at beating a pro. They MAY win a round online in casuals or something, but they will never beat a pro in an offline tournament environment. The same can’t be said about Poker.

To clarify further, I am talking about a given hand or tournament not over time. Over time the pro will destroy the new/bad player.

 

[M2Dave]

NEC is obviously still in progress as of this post, but the results are predictable and consistent, even for the top 16. Please ignore the numbers after the top 8 as TYM lists the top 16 numerically for whatever reason. The first four players are t9th while the last four are t13th.

Winners bracket
FOX|SonicFox (Kollector) vs. STRELA|ArnKratos (Shang Tsung)
Noble|Kombat (Geras) vs. CGL|Ninjakilla212 (Liu Kang, Johnny Cage)

Losers bracket
Noble|Semiij (Cassie Cage) vs. BC|Dragon (Cetrion)
Illusion|SplashFGC (Kung Lao) vs. END|Scar (Kung Lao)

1. UYU|Rewind (Johnny Cage)
2. DF|Grr (Geras)
3. UYU|Deoxys (Jacqui, D' Vorah)
4. W2W|TheMightyUnjust (Erron Black, Noob Saibot, Shang Tsung)
5. BC|Biohazard (The Terminator, Kano)
6. K7 Showoff (Sub-Zero)
7. Doom? (Sonya)
8. Illusion|DeAdLyxReBeL (Kollector)

Some trivia...

• ArnKratos is to NEC what HeyGeorge was to ECT - the surprises for their respective tournaments.
• Semiij places top 8 for the first time in a while. Well-deserved!
• Lots of different characters were used throughout the tournament, including the "unviable" Kollector who is in winners bracket.
• I am personally no fan of Kung Lao, but I never thought we would see two of them in the top 8.

To those who still claim the game is "unbalanced" or "random", could you shut the hell up?

Thank you.

 

[armani]

if the movelists were as versatile as the wake up options we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. the game lacks a serious amount of depth. couple that with them splitting characters into 3 incomplete variations. MK11 starts looking and tasting like boiled pasta when MK9 gave us a full course alfredo meal with a stick of dynamite.

the statement below is an idea don’t blow me up for it

we had a variation switching mid game, like the MKD days I think it would be pretty cool. maybe connecting it to the offensive meter.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

if the movelists were as versatile as the wake up options we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. the game lacks a serious amount of depth. couple that with them splitting characters into 3 incomplete variations. MK11 starts looking and tasting like boiled pasta when MK9 gave us a full course alfredo meal with a stick of dynamite.

the statement below is an idea don’t blow me up for it

we had a variation switching mid game, like the MKD days I think it would be pretty cool. maybe connecting it to the offensive meter.

Except that the characters in MK9 didn’t have any more specials and strings than the variations in MK11, save for a couple DLC that were given the kitchen sink.

There are far more characters that are complete and viable in MK11 than there were in MK9.

This is a recycled talking point that has already been debunked multiple times, including with people posting side-by-side examples, and is mainly pushed by people who don’t actually know both games well.

 

[NaCl man]

@M2Dave
I watched a bit of this yesterday and it was really fun to watch. Kollector is a beast.
With the throw 50/50 thing it added to the hype knowing when the KB was loaded and when they lost it so i was wrong about that i think. On paper it sounds silly but to watch it at high level it was cool.

Oh and the commentary was awesome great job.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I watched a bit of this yesterday and it was really fun to watch. Kollector is a beast.
With the throw 50/50 thing it added to the hype knowing when the KB was loaded and when they lost it so i was wrong about that i think. On paper it sounds silly but to watch it at high level it was cool.

I think you're in the wrong thread my man

But since you mention it, this is an important point imo. KB's are hype when the character involved has to work to set them up. Rather than it just happening seemingly as a given (Geras neck chop KB for example.. When does he not get that).

That is why, imo it'd be best for Krushing Blows to be the kind that, for each character, take at least a little bit of effort to obtain, because then it's hype to watch them finally get the payoff and cash out.

 

[MagicMan357]

EVen the haters are starting to admit mk11 is good. Its going to get harder and harder to bullshit yourself because MK just gets better and better, and its on the community to learn it and promote it.

 

[Skylight1]

Also I appreciate you posting this @BRAZILIAN SHEEP. This is the most important conversation had about this game. It's hilarious that I've been saying everything they've talked about since couple months after release and no one has believed me. Also, the way they are speaking is how a lot of top players feel about the game as well. They're just never going to say this publicly for reasons discussed in this podcast.

The idea this is a neutral and footsie heavy game is a joke when the risk reward on the fuck neutral tools is not in line with what they offer on top of the oppressive set play this game has. It's hella degenerate at the highest level and I think anyone who honestly looks at the game can see this from a mile away.

I've been saying this since before the game came and I've been met with nothing but harsh threats and insults that I wouldn't give to my worse of enemies. Sad they'll only listen to someone of an upper level though.

 

[B. Shazzy]

“people love mk11 man haters btfo”

meanwhile there’s at least 100 empty chairs watching this nec top 8. All this blind brand loyalty is cool but some people want an actually good game. So yeah, us haters will just be direct about it and maybe nrs will listen to us and the hundreds of empty chairs at tournies. Or not, but its worth a shot.

 

[M2Dave]

“people love mk11 man haters btfo”

meanwhile there’s at least 100 empty chairs watching this nec top 8. All this blind brand loyalty is cool but some people want an actually good game. So yeah, us haters will just be direct about it and maybe nrs will listen to us and the hundreds of empty chairs at tournies. Or not, but its worth a shot.

Mortal Kombat 11 is the last game of the tournament so lots of people leave to get some rest for their flight or drive in the morning.

This has happened a hundred times before, including to Street Fighter 4, your favorite game.

Mortal Kombat 11 is currently being viewed by slightly less than 8,000 people, which is easily the most out of any other fighting game at this event from what I have observed.

Honestly, these are points and arguments are abysmal.... like Tremor on release...

 

[DarkSado]

Mortal Kombat 11 is the last game of the tournament so lots of people leave to get some rest for their flight or drive in the morning.

This has happened a hundred times before, including to Street Fighter 4, your favorite game.

Mortal Kombat 11 is currently being viewed by slightly less than 8,000 people, which is easily the most out of any other fighting game at this event from what I have observed.

Honestly, these are points and arguments are abysmal.... like Tremor on release...

I don't know man when I watch sf 4 top there was definitely more full seats lol.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Mortal Kombat 11 is the last game of the tournament so lots of people leave to get some rest for their flight or drive in the morning.

This has happened a hundred times before, including to Street Fighter 4, your favorite game.

Mortal Kombat 11 is currently being viewed by slightly less than 8,000 people, which is easily the most out of any other fighting game at this even from what I have observed.

8k viewers when there’s absolutely nothing else to watch on Sunday, prime time, for the last tourney in the pro tour? Nobody in the crowd? The game’s only been out for half a year...?

Ive been here almost as long as you have. You can tell this there’s a decline in the nrs game tournament scene, that is, after the new-game-hype wears off. Regardless of your opinion on the gameplay. Its an all time low, despite the game sales, the pot bonuses etc etc. Just look around. In the tech threads, in your friends list on psn, and at actual tournaments. MK11 smells like death and we all should realize its 100% because the gameplay is the not interesting to most people, period.

 

[HeavyNorse]

“people love mk11 man haters btfo”

meanwhile there’s at least 100 empty chairs watching this nec top 8. All this blind brand loyalty is cool but some people want an actually good game. So yeah, us haters will just be direct about it and maybe nrs will listen to us and the hundreds of empty chairs at tournies. Or not, but its worth a shot.

What is it you want though? Just for MK not to exist? For people to just not enjoy or play the game? Because you don't think it's good enough?

 

[B. Shazzy]

What is it you want though? Just for MK not to exist? For people to just not enjoy or play the game? Because you don't think it's good enough?

This is a thread discussing the state of the game. And I told you this exact thing would happen before the game come out. In the SF thread, in 6 months the game would be dead. Can you really call me a hater for telling the truth? I want NRS to make a fg for people who actually play fgs, to be proud of. Not just good for the same 5 certain tym posters you see in every thread who will now try to convince people these seats arent filled for “reasons” besides the obvious.

 

[HeavyNorse]

This is a thread discussing the state of the game. And I told you this exact thing would happen before the game come out. In the SF thread, in 6 months the game would be dead. Can you really call me a hater for telling the truth? I want NRS to make a fg for eople who actually play fgs, can be proud of. Not just good for the same 5 certain tym posters you see in every thread who will now try to convince people these seats arent filled for “reasons” besides the obvious.

You didn't answer the question. What is it you want for MK? You have time and time again expressed your disdain for it, but I've never seen what you want to see it become instead. So... what is it you want?

 

[NaCl man]

EVen the haters are starting to admit mk11 is good. Its going to get harder and harder to bullshit yourself because MK just gets better and better, and its on the community to learn it and promote it.

so constructive criticism is considered hating now.

Good shit

 

[MagicMan357]

@NaCl man you cant make constructive criticism when you dont even know how to play it, so yea.

 

[B. Shazzy]

You didn't answer the question. What is it you want for MK? You have time and time again expressed your disdain for it, but I've never seen what you want to see it become instead. So... what is it you want?

There is no saving this game. Year 1 is done and this game has another year tops before everyone wants the next nrs game. The best way to see change is to advocate for it now, before the next release, while they’re developing the next. Making sure the community understands that game actually did/does suck, is important for the future. Only way to improve it.

 

[MagicMan357]

You didn't answer the question. What is it you want for MK? You have time and time again expressed your disdain for it, but I've never seen what you want to see it become instead. So... what is it you want?

You wont get a legit response because the mk haters have none.

 

[HeavyNorse]

There is no saving this game. Year 1 is done and this game has another year tops before everyone wants the next nrs game. The best way to see change is to advocate for it now, before the next release, while they’re developing the next. Making sure the community understands that game actually did/does suck, is important for the future. Only way to improve it.

Improve into what? What is it you want for MK to become like?