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The most recent REO podcast episode is huge, and we should talk about it

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
And if there were would it magically fill the room?

This isn't a sport like football or tennis where the "stars" are just as much of a draw to the game.
Yeah it kinda is.
You want to see the best games at the highest level. It's like comparing a weekend local basketball comp to the NBA.
What would you rather watch.
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
I said MK. As in Mortal Kombat as a whole. Not MK11 specifically.



Then yes, I would like for you to start designing a fighting game you wish the next MK to become. Make a thread and put down words in a post what YOU think MK needs to become the good fighting game YOU want it to be! Come with constructive criticism, write down ideas that you think would work well with the MK brand, mention what parts of the franchise you liked and would like to see in the game, talk about the roster and what you would like to see for each individual character, what features and modes you'd like to see in the game...

Put all this stuff into words... instead of just spitting and shitting on the current games and those who play it and like it, with your "lul game is shit" comments which does absolutely nothing for anyone.
I got better things to do. like make status updates about the next 5 MK games’ roster slots could be filled by the amount of empty chairs in the crowd at NEC

You're just rubbing in some desperation since a hype tournament and Top 8 has you sweating :p

I know you can come with better than this Shazzy.

Damn Crimson did you see that burn ^. Gimme some skin, up top lul
 

HeavyNorse

Super Fighting Gay Boy
I got better things to do.
Meaning that this:

Im here to prevent it from ever happening again
... was actually a huge fat lie, because nothing you say or do now will actually do that. You're contributing absolutely nothing of worth. Your presence is meaningless, because you don't make any sort of effort to make it into anything else.

Yet again, you prove to be a disappointment.
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
How are some of y’all still getting got by Shazzy after all these years
Right it’s only me. The guy offered multiple sponsorships this year to play the most popular and competitive fighting game. Take Haketh or Magicman’s expert fg opinion over mine because... yeah?

Meaning that this:



... was actually a huge fat lie, because nothing you say or do now will actually do that. You're contributing absolutely nothing of worth. Your presence is meaningless, because you don't make any sort of effort to make it into anything else.

Yet again, you prove to be a disappointment.
Its not my job. I dont owe the community anything. Im content in my own game. Take my posts or leave them, but they’re the truth.
 

HeavyNorse

Super Fighting Gay Boy
Its not my job. Im content in my own game.
If you're not here to contribute anything for the game to evolve into something better, then you have absolutely no right to expect anything from the devs at all. You say you want the next NRS game to be something you consider a good game, to your standard, something you wish to play, but in the same breath say that you don't actually care to do anything to try and make that happen, then no... you deserve nothing. All you do is act like an entitled spoiled brat who won't lift a finger to get what you want, and then start complaining that you're not getting it.

You're worthless, and my time spent on you was a waste, as always. Which I can only blame myself on, because in retrospect... I should've known better.
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
Ayaya... if you had a crush on me you coulda just said so lul. Thats what DMs are for you know

Anyways, guys I have to go think of some more NEC Mk11 empty chair jokes
 

Gooberking

Solidly Mediocre
...I already said this game is hopeless. It is what it is. Im not here to fix this game. Im here to prevent it from ever happening again. So no, I dont care about MK11. Idk how to be any more clear.
You know, I didn't think I would have been for me. I thought it was going to be for youngsters who were better a the genre than I would ever be, and I would just skip the thing and play something else.

I ended up trying it, and I ended up connecting to it more than any other FG. I happen to like it for a lot of the reasons other people aren't liking it. I'm better at it that other fighters because it's more basic and generally accessible than other offerings. It lets me explore and appreciate it so much more fully than most other fighting games, and that's a bit of a treat.

I get that it's not for everyone. I'm fine with that. I can live with that. I would however, prefer if there wasn't a mob of people trying to change the one game that is working for me into something else when there are like 65 other really cool fighting games on the market. Not everything has to work the same way. Rumor has it that you are pretty good at these things, and maybe you could just be content in the corner of the FG world you love.
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
Yeah, you're that guy who's an easy fuck, where people think "Hmm, maybe, why not give it a try, everyone else had a ride anyways", but then walk away disappointed, dissatisfied and with crabs.
Uh... this still isnt my dms silly goose lul

You know, I didn't think I would have been for me. I thought it was going to be for youngsters who were better a the genre than I would ever be, and I would just skip the thing and play something else.

I ended up trying it, and I ended up connecting to it more than any other FG. I happen to like it for a lot of the reasons other people aren't liking it. I'm better at it that other fighters because it's more basic and generally accessible than other offerings. It lets me explore and appreciate it so much more fully than most other fighting games, and that's a bit of a treat.

I get that it's not for everyone. I'm fine with that. I can live with that. I would however, prefer if there wasn't a mob of people trying to change the one game that is working for me into something else when there are like 65 other really cool fighting games on the market. Not everything has to work the same way. Rumor has it that you are pretty good at these things, and maybe you could just be content in the corner of the FG world you love.
I believe there is an objectively good fg possible. That goes beyond preference. You and others may like MK11, that’s ok. I understand the intent of the game, but the execution is so botched it’s an actually a bad game. I also believe modern NRS players dont know what a really good fg can feel like. They have no concept of it, its not their fault. Or perhaps they just lost their way like Dave. As the shepard guides his flock, I work for a future to make that day a reality one post at a time.
 
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Some of y'all need to get that mk is now catering to an audience that doesn't care by their game design even they clearly don't need to. Street fighter, guilty gear, mk11; just a few of the games hit by casulization. Y'all should just play tekken. A real man's game :DOGE
 
Another video from a pro, like, confirming that the difference between characters ans the game itself disguises who is "the best" player.
According to him, the best player (which ia daigo...) is more than a guy who picks the best character and win tournaments.

So....REO and people from the podcast don't know shit, now tokido.....that is right.


Remembering that of course he is not talking about mk11, but he is confirming someghing huge in fighting games that, if you pick the best char or the best ones it can give you a huge advantage, and you can even surpass people that are better than you.

Do you really think that with all the bullahit that mk11 has, it does not apply? I think it is applied x 100.
 
Another video from a pro, like, confirming that the difference between characters ans the game itself disguises who is "the best" player.
According to him, the best player (which ia daigo...) is more than a guy who picks the best character and win tournaments.

So....REO and people from the podcast don't know shit, now tokido.....that is right.


Remembering that of course he is not talking about mk11, but he is confirming someghing huge in fighting games that, if you pick the best char or the best ones it can give you a huge advantage, and you can even surpass people that are better than you.

Do you really think that with all the bullahit that mk11 has, it does not apply? I think it is applied x 100.
i dont remembe REO saying anything about that.. of course Tier matters why do you think Sonic only plays characters he thinks are either broken aka top5 in tourneys ? same for NK or Dragon. they could do good with lower tier characters but why would they ? its just logic. if you are a bad player and play a low tier character you are gonna be worst that a bad player with a top tier character.
 
What would you rather watch.
Good point. But I don't know if weekend local basketball compared to NBA is a valid comparison. I'd say more like a tennis ATP Finals event where a couple of the big names have pulled out. You'll still be getting top level play, just that you won't get to see the biggest names in the game.

But i still don't feel there's a loyalty to a player like there is in the sports scene.
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
Good point. But I don't know if weekend local basketball compared to NBA is a valid comparison. I'd say more like a tennis ATP Finals event where a couple of the big names have pulled out. You'll still be getting top level play, just that you won't get to see the biggest names in the game.

But i still don't feel there's a loyalty to a player like there is in the sports scene.
That's true but I'd much rather watch a match between knee and arslan ash than sourpiggy and fightinggm. No disrespect to the latter they are great players but they are not the killers in this game.

To use NBA again you will most likely get high level play at any game but the best moments come from the best. MJ vs Iverson comes to mind. That was awesome.
 
Firstly, fix your mics holy shit.
Secondly, I'm sorta new to this podcast so I don't have the history, but do we really need Dave and REO calling each other morons about armor?
Grow the fuck up, damn.

Now as someone who was around during KI since its launch and pretty active on the forums I had actually somehow completely forgotten all about Paul B and only had a vague sense that his name brought me some dark nostalgia. That said, as much as I dislike the man and how two-faced he was with comments like "it's the community's fault" regarding backlash towards the game or the devs, he still had a lot of good points about risk/reward aspect of neutral breaking attacks using the KI comparisons.

Regarding things like Geras sand trap and how this part of the discussion explored it I was disappointed nobody brought up Raiden's lightning strikes as this move already functions pretty much how everyone in the stream would like all the other similar moves to function; hella unsafe mid screen and closer. Unfortunately it's also just as unsafe at full screen to a few characters, but the general idea is there where encroaching on Raiden's space fucks him up.

Tom gets a lot of shit but he always makes a lot of strong points, and I think his findings on the way i-frames work on wakeup is not only interesting as fuck but also a colossal deal that I'm surprised nobody else seemed to care about it when explained. I do agree that the shouting and interruptions could use a nerf though, Tom.

Dave, I really dislike your attitude of "x will never get fixed so cut our losses". Tom brings up an important happening where NRS decided to rebuild their entire online feature at great cost to themselves (and I don't just mean money) more than a year after MKX was released. This is an unheard of thing to do with a game.
The moment this happened I no longer find "this won't or can't get fixed" as a viable answer. I think there's merit in perhaps NRS is just chilling due to backlash for patching previous games too much, but I also agree with REO that these concerns should still be voiced constructively to NRS if anything is going to improve.
I understand that you mean we're not going to be seeing large overhauls to the variation system (agreed) or how the block button works (agreed, sadly) but I think a lot of the suggestions brought to the table in the stream to be viable changes.

I love this game too and I do agree with Tom that it's pretty close to where it needs to be but there are a lot of little weird shits that bring down the experience tremendously when they appear. I think forward roll and delay wakeup are great examples to talk about for character specific stuff that makes these mechanics even more frustrating than they already are:

Characters like Geras and Jax get to stand on top of you while you're in knockdown and continue throwing out their usual buttons without even needing to care about roll or delay because their best strings either catch jumpers/buttons, blow up the delay, or move them out of punish range if you rolled forward.​
Meanwhile a character like Raiden can't do any of that since all of his buttons are 1 or 2 hits with big whiff animations and goofy hitboxes. This character gets disintegrated by rolls and delay wakeup, and holding up is probably the safest thing you can do against him. Raiden players are always talking about B2 KB being bad because you can block it when the real problem is Raiden actually has to stand there with his eyes taped open to try and read the full wakeup or he dies while top characters literally don't care.​


I think we're having an important discussion and I am grateful that this conversation is happening and even with people we don't always get along with. That said, I was pretty frustrated listening to this one due to the mics cutting, several people talking over each other and not listening to one another, and again whatever that was between Dave and REO; it's bad enough the forums are rife with ad hominem so allowing it onto your stream makes you guys look really bad no matter how good your talking points may be. Whatever your history, if that was actually friendly ribbing or something I think it needs to be checked because it certainly doesn't read as such and I don't believe it has any place in the discussion nor does it do any favors for this game or community.

-Fuck me I just looked at this after posting, sorry about the wall.
 
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