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Kitana General Discussion

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
What is the staple combo after Fan-Nado anyway?
I always end fan nado combos with fan nado for oki. She doesn’t really have enders in this variation lol. Gut slice switches sides and leaves her upclose, which is something fearless doesn’t want. Low amp fan is a lame ender imo.
 

Edmund

Kitana & Skarlet
i actually usually ended most combos with b141 to get full screen in fearless. I really only zone in that variation bc it excels in that
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Suck is a strong word. Highborn is just better, doesn't mean the other two suck.

For me, Kitana has only 2 variations. Highborn is a different character for me. It's a hybrid and it's called Kiteena. I don't like it. I hate it actually. Unless I'm a pro player and Highborn is top of the top tier, I have no good reason to play it. Ever.
Fool! You dare address her in such a way?

Her name is Milana!
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Glad to see that Dave agrees with me. I said that Kitana highborne could be top 5 if they fixed her razors and since they did, they made her into a powerhouse.

Hayatei and Tekkenmaster are also talking about how good highborne is. I also think that Dragon honestly needs to put more time into her outside of Cet, and he'd definitely be able to give Sonic a run for his money.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
She is not top 5. M2Dave’s obsession with Edenian Razors aside.
  • razors are safe on block, which is rare for a special move in this game, and have no gap when canceled into from strings
  • razors are the only special move that can be made plus on block without a gap
  • razors deal excellent chip damage and are one of the best round closers in the game
  • razors provide the most frame advantage on hit which makes them the best reset in the game
I say the Edenian razors are well-worth obsessing over.

I always end fan nado combos with fan nado for oki. She doesn’t really have enders in this variation lol. Gut slice switches sides and leaves her upclose, which is something fearless doesn’t want. Low amp fan is a lame ender imo.
I am not certain if this combo is optimal or not, but I do b+1,4 xx fan-nado, jumping kick xx EX aerial fan toss, f+2,3 xx d,f+2, which hits as krushing blow or can be saved. As Edmund stated, you can get full-screen positioning if you end combos with b+1,4,2, but you do less damage.

By the way, even if low fan toss had no gap in strings, I still think Highborn would be better than Fearless, but I may be wrong on this one. LOL. It would most certainly be top tier, though.

I also think that Dragon honestly needs to put more time into her outside of Cet, and he'd definitely be able to give Sonic a run for his money.
Nobody is going to beat Sonic Fox at the counter-picking game. Besides, Cetrion is so good that Dragon may not have a reason to invest more time into Kitana, but I thought both he and Semiij looked very uncomfortable using Highborn at ECT.
 
Hi guys, recently got the game, haven't played for like 3 years since i dropped MKX, i have really big trouble doing lift cancel after b231, it's just doesn't work online. I don't know why but it always fine in practice mode, but never comes out in actual games. Any tips? I'm on PC, maybe thats the problemo?
 

Juxtapose

Master
Hi guys, recently got the game, haven't played for like 3 years since i dropped MKX, i have really big trouble doing lift cancel after b231, it's just doesn't work online. I don't know why but it always fine in practice mode, but never comes out in actual games. Any tips? I'm on PC, maybe thats the problemo?
I'm also on PC, and B2,3,1~Fan Lift works great. Are you using a wifi connection, or wired in? What's the ping in your matches? Are they laggy?
 
Wired of course. Not laggy, except for some guys with wi-fi and 200 ping, otherwise my matches are pretty fine. Maybe i mash it too hard? When do you input lift? When Kitana does sweep attack?
 

Juxtapose

Master
Wired of course. Not laggy, except for some guys with wi-fi and 200 ping, otherwise my matches are pretty fine. Maybe i mash it too hard? When do you input lift? When Kitana does sweep attack?
In general, I just dial it in. I do recall needing to wait a slight beat to make sure it's properly registered the 3,1, as if I go too fast sometimes I get B2~Fan Lift despite having done the full string. I've been doing it so long though that it's all automatic to me now.

Since you are playing Online, in training, have you tried using the Input Delay that simulates online latency?
 
Hi guys, recently got the game, haven't played for like 3 years since i dropped MKX, i have really big trouble doing lift cancel after b231, it's just doesn't work online. I don't know why but it always fine in practice mode, but never comes out in actual games. Any tips? I'm on PC, maybe thats the problemo?
Are you talking about fan lift specifically or fan-nado? Because Fan-nado doesn't combo off b231 unless you're in the corner
 

Noserfatu

My eyes! The goggles do nothing!
@M2Dave loves to reference razors being plus on block as a huge kitana advantage.

I'll caveat this by saying I play mostly online, but razors are (1) not always plus on block. They range from -9 to +1. And (2) even if kitana is +1 on block every time, so what? Her fastest mid is 13 frames. Her fastest poke, that can actually hit at the range razors leaves her after most strings, is a 9 frame d1. If I use her 8 frame jab, they can d1 or d2.

So being +1 as kitana, in their face, is not great. It would be if she had a 7f d1 or an 11f mid, but she doesn't.
 
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xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
@M2Dave loves to reference razors being plus on block as a huge kitana advantage.

I'll caveat this by saying I play mostly online, but razors are (1) not always plus on block. They range from -9 to +1. And (2) even if kitana is +1 on block every time, so what? Her fastest mid is 13 frames. Her fastest poke, that can actually hit at the range razors leaves her after most strings, is a 9 frame d1. If I use her 8 frame jab, they can d1 or d2.

So being +1 as kitana, in their face, is not great. It would be if she had a 7f d1 or an 11f mid, but she doesn't.
Dave is notorious for exaggerating how good or bad something is. It’s best to just smile and nod.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
@M2Dave loves to reference razors being plus on block as a huge kitana advantage.

I'll caveat this by saying I play mostly online, but razors are (1) not always plus on block. They range from -9 to +1. And (2) even if kitana is +1 on block every time, so what? Her fastest mid is 13 frames. Her fastest poke, that can actually hit at the range razors leaves her after most strings, is a 9 frame d1. If I use her 8 frame jab, they can d1 or d2.

So being +1 as kitana, in their face, is not great. It would be if she had a 7f d1 or an 11f mid, but she doesn't.
If she had faster low pokes and mid attacks, she would have better pressure and frame traps than most rush down characters.

I agree that the frame advantage on razors is inconsistent. The move is more of a chipping tool and less of a frame-trapping tool. As long as you are safe on block and force your opponents to question when to take their turns sometimes, the inconsistency is not too relevant.

If you want to create space against characters with command grabs, use b+1,3.

Dave is notorious for exaggerating how good or bad something is. It’s best to just smile and nod.
I have already explained why razors are a great move and we have seen Highborn in the grand finals at ECT. You can choose to accept or ignore these facts.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
Highborn is the best tournament variation and the best custom moves are also what is in Highborn (Half-Blood Stance and Edinian Razors).
Labbing this character, and bc I could not find this elsewhere:
Can you explain to me the difference between regular Razors and the Razors "im place" or whatever it's called? Different usages?
 

gitblame

Apprentice
I am at the point that I feel Fearless is way better for me than Highborn. Before someone jumps at me, I am not saying Fearless is better than Highborn objectively - because probably she's not. But I feel I am way more comfortable playing Fearless spacing // keep away game than Highborn post razors mind game.
Also I really like she is able to steal turns. Highborn for sure is better is some matchups, because when Fearless can't really play defensively she turns into worse version of Fan-fare. But on those matchups I would rather not to use Kitana at all.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Labbing this character, and bc I could not find this elsewhere:
Can you explain to me the difference between regular Razors and the Razors "im place" or whatever it's called? Different usages?
The frame data is the same on the close (i.e., "in place") and far razors. You always want to use the far razors for combos. The only exception is b+3,4 xx close razors, 3,2 xx d,f+2 in the corner. You also want to use the far razors for block strings. Close razors can be used in block strings too, but they depend on the character (i.e., males versus females and even "breathing" hitboxes), the type of blocking (i.e., standing versus crouching), and the spacing (i.e., the range where Kitana's initial hit makes contact with the opponent). When executed properly, the first hit of the razor hits, the second whiffs while the third hits. This gap can be used to bait and punish low pokes in between the first and third razor. The opponent can backdash the third razor, though. Finally, you can use d+3 xx close razors to bait and counter certain retaliations such as low pokes and throws, but you can be punished if your opponent decides to wait and not press any buttons.

@M2Dave

Listening to your podcast with REO on stream, rn.

I agree that Kitana's main weakness is slow normals and poor anti airs, especially bc they toned down fan toss upward hitbox.
As I have explained before, the slow normal attacks are a necessity because of razors. As far as anti-aerial attacks are concerned, she has d+2 and d+3. Besides, she can play outside of jump kick range because of a great projectile and a long-range normal attack. To me, the fan toss has not been toned down. The upward hitbox is still present and catches jumping opponents more so than any other grounded projectile.

I am at the point that I feel Fearless is way better for me than Highborn. Before someone jumps at me, I am not saying Fearless is better than Highborn objectively - because probably she's not. But I feel I am way more comfortable playing Fearless spacing // keep away game than Highborn post razors mind game.
Also I really like she is able to steal turns. Highborn for sure is better is some matchups, because when Fearless can't really play defensively she turns into worse version of Fan-fare. But on those matchups I would rather not to use Kitana at all.
I respect your opinion. I think Fearless is good but gimmicky. People are not yet flawless blocking EX fan toss and they are getting hit by jumping kick xx twist. I know I am. A lot too. LOL. The only match up in which Fearless may perform better is against Sub Zero's slide variation, and I genuinely believe even this point is debatable.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
The frame data is the same on the close (i.e., "in place") and far razors. You always want to use the far razors for combos. The only exception is b+3,4 xx close razors, 3,2 xx d,f+2 in the corner. You also want to use the far razors for block strings. Close razors can be used in block strings too, but they depend on the character (i.e., males versus females and even "breathing" hitboxes), the type of blocking (i.e., standing versus crouching), and the spacing (i.e., the range where Kitana's initial hit makes contact with the opponent). When executed properly, the first hit of the razor hits, the second whiffs while the third hits. This gap can be used to bait and punish low pokes in between the first and third razor. The opponent can backdash the third razor, though. Finally, you can use d+3 xx close razors to bait and counter certain retaliations such as low pokes and throws, but you can be punished if your opponent decides to wait and not press any buttons.
Thanks. Do you have any video on youtube or something demonstrating this? Appreciate the reply.