Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Trustful_Whale]

They gave him an unsafe launcher.
They gave d2 amp with buff push back

They took away the reason to use low pole in the first place
They took away your ability to punish anything that's only slightly negative
They took away your ability restand mid screen from some some combos

All the while still not fixing buff going away during any type of CS.

Did Rajin change yes, there is an argument to be made weather or not its ostensibly better.

Electric Current is the same as before, only with a launcher; the move was always unsafe. Now it gives us a combo when it hits and he has QC up. That's a buff.
I'll assume you meant df2 here, which the added push back at -5 makes this move safe on block, which it was not previously. That's a buff.

They took away nothing in regards to using the low pole. Making the amp hit mid makes no difference. This comment makes no sense.
They made Discharge 6 frames instead of 4, which is a nerf but this move can still punish things nobody else can. I should know, I took the time to find all the gaps for you guys in the Raijin thread.
Using Discharge to restand mid screen was never useful since they would be placed too far away to pick up the combo. Now it now longer combos, but is always +5 even on a grounded hit. The restand was always a corner thing. We'll call this a 'burf'.

I'm assuming this last one is in reference to Quick Charge being erased during Krushing and Fatal Blows, which is intentional. Nothing to fix here, even if it's kind of a drag.

Raijin changed a lot and is absolutely better than it used to be. Now please pass that joint over this way.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Yeah, it looks pretty boring to me. The lightning rod thing could be interesting, depending on how some other stuff shakes out. Probably not going to change his fortunes overnight though.

I think the flying stance could be interesting if they allowed us to enter it while airborne and also made Raiden's legs invincible.

 

[ExpectFlames]

Electric Current is the same as before, only with a launcher; the move was always unsafe. Now it gives us a combo when it hits and he has QC up. That's a buff.
I'll assume you meant df2 here, which the added push back at -5 makes this move safe on block, which it was not previously. That's a buff.

They took away nothing in regards to using the low pole. Making the amp hit mid makes no difference. This comment makes no sense.
They made Discharge 6 frames instead of 4, which is a nerf but this move can still punish things nobody else can. I should know, I took the time to find all the gaps for you guys in the Raijin thread.
Using Discharge to restand mid screen was never useful since they would be placed too far away to pick up the combo. Now it now longer combos, but is always +5 even on a grounded hit. The restand was always a corner thing. We'll call this a 'burf'.

I'm assuming this last one is in reference to Quick Charge being erased during Krushing and Fatal Blows, which is intentional. Nothing to fix here, even if it's kind of a drag.

Raijin changed a lot and is absolutely better than it used to be. Now please pass that joint over this way.

I don't directly infer weather or not rajin is better or worse I only posed the question. Old reversal stopped kabal specifically, I've been watching him since launch hes fucked up so in that particular perspective it's a direct hurt piece to the variation directly eliminating it from contention. Everything I don't disagree about. QC going away isnt consistant with the rest of the cast. Jax keeps arms kang keeps feet kano keeps venge it's not huge but I wouldn't call it minor either.

Still want to hear a matchup raiden actually wins

 

[Trustful_Whale]

QC going away isnt consistant with the rest of the cast. Jax keeps arms kang keeps feet kano keeps venge

Jax is the only one who keeps his buff after a KB or FB. Liu Kang and Kano do not.

Still want to hear a matchup raiden actually wins

Jade

 

[ExpectFlames]

Jade

Get out of the forum... JADE IS A TOP 10 CHARACTER R loses that matchup easy 7-3 jade easy LIGHT!!!

I do wanna know why you say he wins though legit interested.

My points would be raiden cannot contest b2 under any circumstance, arguably any of her long range normals. Jade wins at range and up close shes got dirt.

I don't think that's a super fire take either but I'm up for the debate for sure.

 

[JeffX]

I've made a post like this before, but Raiden's problem right now is that his normals and strings don't have any synergy with one another and that lightning strike is so negative.

-B12 should be a safe string. The second hit is already a high. If they don't want to make b12 safe, then superman cancels need to be free. (This might seem extreme, but you're fairly negative off of all of them and it's a much more reasonable buff than making storm cell safe.)

-F112 should be plus or be safe with some minor pushbash. (Think Kotal's b2 string)

-Lighting strike should be progressively safer the far it hits on block. And significantly safer than -27. As of right now you can only use the far version.

 

[Wizanski]

It's not really Raiden's special moves that are the problem guys. It's his slow normals, lack of mids, unsafe strings, and also the near impossible to get krushing blows.

Buff Raiden pls!

 

[rainuS]

ye b12 should be -7 to be fair
I think his 3rd variation gonna be the worst one.

 

[ExpectFlames]

ye b12 should be -7 to be fair
I think his 3rd variation gonna be the worst one.

I said it earlier but you can do some gimmicks with amp LR even though its negative you cant really punish it under threat of hit. But well see

 

[Wizanski]

Can someone here on twitter please post this and tag in 16bit, Tyler, Ed Boon, NRS, and anyone else relevant? #BuffRaiden

 

[Black Chapters]

I said it earlier but you can do some gimmicks with amp LR even though its negative you cant really punish it under threat of hit. But well see

Rod isn't out long enough to matter.

 

[ExpectFlames]

Rod isn't out long enough to matter.

I'm mean place it on them they can really only block. Throw resets dont work currently but maybe thell adjust that? At the very least they wont be able to punish.

 

[JeffX]

It's not really Raiden's special moves that are the problem guys. It's his slow normals, lack of mids, unsafe strings, and also the near impossible to get krushing blows.

Buff Raiden pls!

He actually has really good mids on start up. His f3 and b1 are good mids. B12 is just full combo punishable which is absurd. F1 is basically useless though. And f4 is really slow on recovery so despite being -3, it's not like kung lao's f4 where he can sneak in a d3

 

[rainuS]

Even Kollector has better 10f mid safe on block and ppl says he is Raiden tier. He can literally spam it being safe and hitconfirm to full combo.

 

[Black Chapters]

I'm mean place it on them they can really only block. Throw resets dont work currently but maybe thell adjust that? At the very least they wont be able to punish.

placing the rod after an attack you have enough time for 2 Lightning Bolts, but due to its slow startup, nearly the whole cast can just trade projectiles and the rest can escape, the rod boost only travels within the radius of the rod, whether its MB'd or not.

Any teleporter can escape and most characters travel specials will get them away.

even when hit its lackluster........like Raiden in general.

 

[ExpectFlames]

placing the rod after an attack you have enough time for 2 Lightning Bolts, but due to its slow startup, nearly the whole cast can just trade projectiles and the rest can escape, the rod boost only travels within the radius of the rod, whether its MB'd or not.

Any teleporter can escape and most characters travel specials will get them away.

even when hit its lackluster........like Raiden in general.

You cant tele out of it. I'm talking aboutthe bubble they cant leave. The projectile is worthless

 

[ExpectFlames]

placing the rod after an attack you have enough time for 2 Lightning Bolts, but due to its slow startup, nearly the whole cast can just trade projectiles and the rest can escape, the rod boost only travels within the radius of the rod, whether its MB'd or not.

Any teleporter can escape and most characters travel specials will get them away.

even when hit its lackluster........like Raiden in general.

I have amp LR set-up I'll post later

 

[Trustful_Whale]

I expect the first change to be Lighting Rod either stays on the field longer, or until Raiden calls it back.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I've made a post like this before, but Raiden's problem right now is that his normals and strings don't have any synergy with one another and that lightning strike is so negative.

-B12 should be a safe string. The second hit is already a high. If they don't want to make b12 safe, then superman cancels need to be free. (This might seem extreme, but you're fairly negative off of all of them and it's a much more reasonable buff than making storm cell safe.)

-F112 should be plus or be safe with some minor pushbash. (Think Kotal's b2 string)

-Lighting strike should be progressively safer the far it hits on block. And significantly safer than -27. As of right now you can only use the far version.

B12 can be made completely safe. In Raijin with buff you should always cancel into DF2 on block and DB4 on hit. It’s basic stuff and eliminates your concern of B12 being unsafe. This alone will open up staggers for B1 and B12. B12 having one hit being high means it is bad for use in delayed WU situations where the second hit whiffs and you get D2, but that’s where B14 comes in. Sure it sucks and could probably use some sort of buff but it’s an option so it should be used. In TW you can make B12 quasi-safe by doing fly cancels or far teleport, both cost resources and you are still punishable on read by fast far-reaching specials but then the mix-up is whether or not you do the fly cancel. He’s not really a pressure character. His options after B12 are designed to bait out movement from the opponent and he can punish with his plethora of whiff-punishing moves (B12, F11, F4)

F11 is already safe. Why are you using F112 anyway? Idk how I would make this move useful but DO NOT make it like Kotal’s B223. It’s full combo punishable when you interrupt with D1. That’s even worse than F112 now.

I agree with lightning strike changes and have been a proponent of that since day 1.

Raiden isn’t a good character by any means but he still plays MK11 well enough. He just need lightning strike changes and maybe (big maybe) some touches to frame data. Being -6 isn’t a huge deal in this game because of flawless block reversal. You get punished for trying to take your turn after F3/F32 and you eat at minimum 17%. Can we please at least wait until the patch drops before proclaiming stuff is bad when we don’t know how NRS will change the character yet? How can you make a fair assessment of the 3rd variation when currently Jo push replaces lightning bolt and we clearly know that’s not the case in the coming build?

 

[Mandolore1123]

He actually has really good mids on start up. His f3 and b1 are good mids. B12 is just full combo punishable which is absurd. F1 is basically useless though. And f4 is really slow on recovery so despite being -3, it's not like kung lao's f4 where he can sneak in a d3

F11 works wonders for whiff punishing D’vorah normals since it has no hurtbox and is an extended staff hitbox. I’ve explained before, for whiff punishing Raiden’s normals work in different ranges (B12<B31<F11<F4). It needs a hitbox fix though because it whiff randomly. This I agree with but it’s still useful to whiff punish.

 

[Slymind]

Hey Raiden crew, let me ask you something. Is superbolt a good move? i've been experimenting with Raiden and tried his customs moves, i love the overall aesthetics of superbolt, but didn't find it much more useful than superman for instance.

 

[Marlow]

One thing I noticed when messing around with stuff, when I did 243 into MB Lightning rod, as the opponent was getting up it triggered the hit from the lightning bubble, but it didn't register or do any damage. Anyone know a reason why?

I was able to set it up just fine with 21 and B31.

 

[Gooberking]

B12 can be made completely safe. In Raijin with buff you should always cancel into DF2 on block and DB4 on hit. It’s basic stuff and eliminates your concern of B12 being unsafe. This alone will open up staggers for B1 and B12. B12 having one hit being high means it is bad for use in delayed WU situations where the second hit whiffs and you get D2, but that’s where B14 comes in. Sure it sucks and could probably use some sort of buff but it’s an option so it should be used. In TW you can make B12 quasi-safe by doing fly cancels or far teleport, both cost resources and you are still punishable on read by fast far-reaching specials but then the mix-up is whether or not you do the fly cancel. He’s not really a pressure character. His options after B12 are designed to bait out movement from the opponent and he can punish with his plethora of whiff-punishing moves (B12, F11, F4)

F11 is already safe. Why are you using F112 anyway? Idk how I would make this move useful but DO NOT make it like Kotal’s B223. It’s full combo punishable when you interrupt with D1. That’s even worse than F112 now.

I agree with lightning strike changes and have been a proponent of that since day 1.

Raiden isn’t a good character by any means but he still plays MK11 well enough. He just need lightning strike changes and maybe (big maybe) some touches to frame data. Being -6 isn’t a huge deal in this game because of flawless block reversal. You get punished for trying to take your turn after F3/F32 and you eat at minimum 17%. Can we please at least wait until the patch drops before proclaiming stuff is bad when we don’t know how NRS will change the character yet? How can you make a fair assessment of the 3rd variation when currently Jo push replaces lightning bolt and we clearly know that’s not the case in the coming build?

Bunch of this stuff.

So much of the time it feels like people think he sucks because he doesn't have a LK style f4 go to move, or has moves that aren't great at absolutely everything. He sets you up where you have to out read your opponent to get them to hang themselves. You can't just go ham and expect to steam roll everyone. You can't just hit f4 over and over, sprinkle in some wild whatever and kill 3/5 of players without bothering to learn much else.

That probably means he isn't an ideal character to just be all hyper casual about, but I doubt he starts failing people as a character until the elite skill levels. I know I'm not pushing him to his potential.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Hey Raiden crew, let me ask you something. Is superbolt a good move? i've been experimenting with Raiden and tried his customs moves, i love the overall aesthetics of superbolt, but didn't find it much more useful than superman for instance.

From what I’ve heard its a worse version of superman because you can’t really catch ppl on many strings and can only combo from B12. Cancels leave you up close by at the same frame data as fly cancels (ie super minus), so I don’t find it super useful

 

[Marlow]

I have no idea how good or bad the new variation will end up being, but I'm interested. Could be some interesting setups with that MB Lightning rod. If Jo Push catches the opponent out of the air, or in a juggle like 243 it's got some really nice push back, which should help set up Lightning rod. If he still has summon lightning he should be able to anti air pretty well. Maybe some synergy there, who knows.