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Tweedy's Far Superior Post Patch Tier List (That's Totally Better Than Sonics)

santanabar

santanabar

Apprentice
lordlosh said:
The funny part is when Tweedy Tier List come, people are like oO he got it right, it`s a lot more accurate than the SonicFox.
In the SonicFox Tier list thread, people are SonicFox was drunk, what the f**** he smokes i want from that too and blq, blq, blq.

And the real funny part is their tier list are kinda similar. :D That tells you a lot. :D
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Similar? dude there are major differences:

Scarlet: sonic tier 1, tweedy tier 3.
Scorpion and Shang Tsung: sonic bottom 6, tweedy mid tier above 10 chars at least
Raiden: sonic same tier as erron black, tweedy worst char in the game

With tweedy list most people could disagree by putting one character 1 tier up or down. But sonic list just looks too weird, he puts at the same level characters that are clearly better than others. How can Frost, Kitana, Dvorah and RAIDEN be at Erron Black tier level? And all of them above scorpion wtf?

Btw, I consider SF the best player ever, and I don't even like tweedy.
 
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LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
It looks like Tweedy copy pasted Sonics and moved 3 characters down from S and a few around. Almost Sonics verbatim. Sonic just has the belief Noob, Jax, Cetrion and others are sleeper tier
 
L

lordlosh

Apprentice
santanabar said:
Similar? dude there are major differences:

Scarlet: sonic tier 1, tweedy tier 3.
Scorpion and Shang Tsung: sonic bottom 6, tweedy mid tier above 10 chars at least
Raiden: sonic same tier as erron black, tweedy worst char in the game

With tweedy list most people could disagree by putting one character 1 tier up or down. But sonic list just looks too weird, he puts at the same level characters that are clearly better than others. How can Frost, Kitana, Dvorah and RAIDEN be at Erron Black tier level? And all of them above scorpion wtf?

Btw, I consider SF the best player ever, and I don't even like tweedy.
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You understand what mean kinda similar and what mean they are the same?
Of course they are not going to be exactly the same.
But they are just like and 3 more people in this thread said kinda similar ....
Both have Liu and Cetrion at 1 and 2. Both have Sonya, Geras, Skarlet, Jacqui, Noob, Kabal, Night Wolf, Cassie in top 10.

How is that no similarity?
Both have characters at their bottom like Kotal Khan, Shao Khan, Kollector and Kano. Both have Jade and Sub Zero low, both have Jonny Cage arround 15-18 place.

As far as Scorpion goes, SonicFox perfectly explain why he place him there, there is a video about it, where he explain it with words and gameplay.

Is SonicFox Tier List 100% correct? No of course. This is his opinion, and Tier List is all about that. Obviously he probably doesnt care much about half of the characters in the game. Same as Tweedy.


Now to the tier list topic:
Its a people opinion you get that? You said SonicFox tier list looks too weird by who ? Tier list is all about opinion.
And whether he is 100%, 90, 80 or 10% correct, there isnt anyone close to his level of understanding the game. It was the same in MK10, its the same in MK11.
He always knew what to pick, and if that doesn`t work how to counter pick you. Should i even mention his adaptive skill ?
When the game comes out he was telling people what character is good and what character to use, and he was advice Pro players.
And once again, this is no Casual Tier List, but rather what he think.
 
santanabar

santanabar

Apprentice
lordlosh said:
You understand what mean kinda similar and what mean they are the same?
Of course they are not going to be exactly the same.
But they are just like and 3 more people in this thread said kinda similar ....
Both have Liu and Cetrion at 1 and 2. Both have Sonya, Geras, Skarlet, Jacqui, Noob, Kabal, Night Wolf, Cassie in top 10.
Click to expand...
I honestly stopped reading there. There are major differences between putting a characters tier 1 like scarlet, andputting her mid tier, same level as other 10 chars and clearly below at least 5. And you just say "both have her top 10" rofl. Yeah, also both of them put raiden bottom 15, list are exactly the same :DOGE
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
LawAbidingCitizen said:
It looks like Tweedy copy pasted Sonics and moved 3 characters down from S and a few around. Almost Sonics verbatim. Sonic just has the belief Noob, Jax, Cetrion and others are sleeper tier
Click to expand...
If there were 100 characters that would make more sense. If there is a 25% difference, minimal, that's a sizable margin. Yes, no?
 
Hellbringer

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
lordlosh said:
His "insane" B1 can be low-profilied. Its only useful from range, but opponent jump you wont reach him and will eat punish.
His KB are so so. Like 10 to 15 characters with stronger/better KB than him.
Insane staggers really? :d
His anti-zoning is so so, its slow start up, its not as fast and you have to be bad at zoning to get hit by Sub Ice Ball. His Thin Ice Variation add to his zoning and anti-zoning.
His anti-air its inconsistent, a lot of char with betters.
His cross-up its inconsistent, most pro are droping combo with him and eat punish for that.
His FB is simply bad.
His damage is bad.
He have worst Getup attacks from the whole roster probably.
His pressure comes from his OH, which is completely shut by wakeup options. If you dont know how to counter Sub OH options, its your bad.
The so call "Vortex" its easy bypass by Fuzzy Guard.

He doesnt have solid close range attack. His best attack is 13f. Everyone beat him to the punch up close. His 1,2 range sucks and you a re going to whiff 99,99% of the time. His D1 is almost unusable, because of its range.
Zero good mid string.
He have the worst throw range. You are going to whiff even on throws wow.
If you pressure him, the character is completely shut.
Have one of the worst string option in the game. Same for special moves.
They way the character is used, you going to eat a lot of punish or going to miss a lot of opportunities to punish, they way he convert to combos.
Its one-dimensional and hasn`t have much options.
He probably have the least special attack. His Dead of Winter Variation get only Amplified IceBall.
And his OH is full punishable on sleep mode. Same for the Shoulder Charge.
Oh and did i mention this already:

Subzero's Low-Profiling Issues

So I've mentioned this a few times already but I want to properly document it and hope NRS see this and fix it D1, wakeup U3, and DF2 are all low-profilable EDIT: Fatal Blow can also be low profiled.... 2nd edit: B21 too....
testyourmight.com testyourmight.com
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"His pressure comes from his OH, which is completely shut by wakeup options"

Mind blown.
 
Pterodactyl

Pterodactyl

Plus on block.
Arqwart said:
Is Kotal really better than Kollector, Raiden, and Shao? I'm having trouble believing that he isn't the worst in the game right now.

Also, I fear everyone is sleeping on Kollector at the moment. Mark my words: someone is gunna pull a WhiteBoi IJ2 Scarecrow sorta shit with Kollector soon, catching everyone off guard and pushing Kollector way up on tier lists.
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My thoughts exactly.

I want to hear his reasoning behind placing these two at those points.

Everything else looks more or less fine.
 
lionheart21

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
"Still really good but just below the point of balance."

That pretty much does sum up Johnny. Since Showstopper was fixed, I could see him possibly getting a faster parry in the next patch.

But as for in the top 4 vs male characters....yeah, I really like Johnny, but that's a stretch there. Top 15? Yeah, definitely. Top 10? A bit of a stretch, but possible in the right hands. Top 4? Yeah....no.
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Mine is a lot closer to this one than SonicFox’s.

S: Liu Kang, Cetrion, Sonya, Jacqui

A+: Skarlet, Geras, Kabal, Jax, Noob, Jade, Cassie, Erron Black, Baraka, Kung Lao, Scorpion

A: Sub-Zero, Frost, Shang, D’Vorah, Johnny Cage, Kitana, Raiden

B: Kano, Shao, Kotal, Kollector

Too early to place Nightwolf. If I had to he would be A or A+.
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Let me just help Tweedy and Sonic """""downplay""""" Jade a bit harder and say that she's worse than Kotal now.
 
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NaCl man

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
Ok so from the list from him and sonic they both don't play top tier even when money is on the line....Ok no agenda here lol.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
ChoseDeath said:
If there were 100 characters that would make more sense. If there is a 25% difference, minimal, that's a sizable margin. Yes, no?
Click to expand...
Personally I feel they are quite similar and I expect other big names to follow sonics flow chart. I halfway think Sonic made that tier list to see others and how they respond with theirs.
But yes there are some notible differences bit things that are very important that are also similar.
Both has two S tiers, both have two A's and bottom out at Solid tier known as mid. On both they are basically the same top tiers from S to A and the biggest differences are in low A to B.
It really does look like Tweedy looked at Sonics before making his or used Sonics as the blueprint or possibly sat down with Sonic and others and just added his personal flair to it.
No doubt Scars, HayatiEs and others complaining about Liu Kang had something to do with Liu as #1. Obviously he has better jailing from his Auto Shimmy 12 having 5f window now but he actually had that before just a much smaller window and he actually got a couple nerfs in the patch. I believe Liu is definitely top 5 but just saying.

Personally I feel its a little different than both of theirs but its possible Sonic knows tech we don't?
My tier list looks like this:
15691
Still unsure on a few of them. There where a lot of changes to matchups with last patch and possibly more tech to discover.
 
Darth-Nero

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
The thing about Raiden is like what SonicFox said, Both Raiden and D'vorah are top 2 hardest characters to master in the game. He is just being invalidated to an extent because he's not a dumbass character like Geras, Erron, Sonya..,etc whom you can pick up for a couple of hours and then they carry you on ladder. Raiden doesn't carry. But if you're fundamentally sound and your neutral is good, Then investing in Raiden would be rewarding.

As much as i'd love to downplay my main and see him buffed next patch, I have to disagree with Tweedy there. Raiden is not bottom 2, He's just a character designed for big brain players only.
 
MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Darth-Nero said:
The thing about Raiden is like what SonicFox said, Both Raiden and D'vorah are top 2 hardest characters to master in the game. He is just being invalidated to an extent because he's not a dumbass character like Geras, Erron, Sonya..,etc whom you can pick up for a couple of hours and then they carry you on ladder. Raiden doesn't carry. But if you're fundamentally sound and your neutral is good, Then investing in Raiden would be rewarding.

As much as i'd love to downplay my main and see him buffed next patch, I have to disagree with Tweedy there. Raiden is not bottom 2, He's just a character designed for big brain players only.
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I love how you say "I don't downplay my character, you just need to be big brain like me".

(I should clarify that I am NOT being ironic, I agree on the assessment but also I love a bit of confidence)
 
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