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fluffybunbunkittens

fluffybunbunkittens

Apprentice
Arachnophobia deals more damage than Buzzed (widow's kiss being faster means you can lead into it from more things), but it's very meter-hungry, on an already meter-hungry character...

Widow's Kiss still isn't fast enough to react to projectiles (and if you're predicting, might as well b34 safer), and while I like the idea of Deadly Swarm, it's just more damage (and because it costs an offensive bar, it's not really even that).

It just does not seem worth losing Parasite strings and poopy bugs.
 
Dreamcatcher

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
fluffybunbunkittens said:
Arachnophobia deals more damage than Buzzed (widow's kiss being faster means you can lead into it from more things), but it's very meter-hungry, on an already meter-hungry character...

Widow's Kiss still isn't fast enough to react to projectiles (and if you're predicting, might as well b34 safer), and while I like the idea of Deadly Swarm, it's just more damage (and because it costs an offensive bar, it's not really even that).

It just does not seem worth losing Parasite strings and poopy bugs.
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Widow's Kiss has some nice improvements but I don't understand why they let you delay it and not cancel it. That would have been a great mind game since it's not reliable for counter-zoning. It's like the same principle as Noob's teleport and yet it's slower. Why would you delay it? Ever??? Lol
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Dreamcatcher said:
Let's just say I think I found my new main. I'm getting consistent 550-620 damage and the firefly setup is probably my favorite in the game now. Such a good mixup and some of the best offense in the game post patch.
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Wtf lol what's the BnB's for that??? I don't think I know the mixup though. I've legit only faced the bug variation, no one used this one before to my knowledge, or at least that I played against.
 
Dreamcatcher

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
SaltShaker said:
Wtf lol what's the BnB's for that??? I don't think I know the mixup though. I've legit only faced the bug variation, no one used this one before to my knowledge, or at least that I played against.
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It’s badass. All about setting up flies for the forward throw KB (290-370, 1 fly minimum and 5 fly max determines damage) or the DD1 gives you free 30 damage for each fly off a meter that you can cash out. So it’s supplemental damage as well if you already used the KB.

I do F13 to Widow’s Kiss amp (DB3 amp) 21 Swarm amp (BF4 amp, gives you the full 5 flies)

Then from there you are +4 so you basically have a free back throw against anyone that knows the MU and trying to avoid the KB. Or of course the KB. You can also go D3 to jail and keep mixing up with the flies to cash out as you please.

Only downside is if they tech ANY throw, the flies leave them. (So you have to do it again) Also another con is you burn a meter to use DD1 for the flies to bite anywhere at any time.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Dreamcatcher said:
It’s badass. All about setting up flies for the forward throw KB (290-370, 1 fly minimum and 5 fly max determines damage) or the DD1 gives you free 30 damage for each fly off a meter that you can cash out. So it’s supplemental damage as well if you already used the KB.

I do F13 to Widow’s Kiss amp (DB3 amp) 21 Swarm amp (BF4 amp, gives you the full 5 flies)

Then from there you are +4 so you basically have a free back throw against anyone that knows the MU and trying to avoid the KB. Or of course the KB. You can also go D3 to jail and keep mixing up with the flies to cash out as you please.

Only downside is if they tech ANY throw, the flies leave them. (So you have to do it again) Also another con is you burn a meter to use DD1 for the flies to bite anywhere at any time.
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I'm in practice now, I'm liking what I'm seeing here. Might have to learn a little and take a Day-0 few hours old D'Vorah into the League just to cement the GOAT status.:eek:
 
Pterodactyl

Pterodactyl

Plus on block.
Dreamcatcher said:
It’s badass. All about setting up flies for the forward throw KB (290-370, 1 fly minimum and 5 fly max determines damage) or the DD1 gives you free 30 damage for each fly off a meter that you can cash out. So it’s supplemental damage as well if you already used the KB.

I do F13 to Widow’s Kiss amp (DB3 amp) 21 Swarm amp (BF4 amp, gives you the full 5 flies)

Then from there you are +4 so you basically have a free back throw against anyone that knows the MU and trying to avoid the KB. Or of course the KB. You can also go D3 to jail and keep mixing up with the flies to cash out as you please.

Only downside is if they tech ANY throw, the flies leave them. (So you have to do it again) Also another con is you burn a meter to use DD1 for the flies to bite anywhere at any time.
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I used to use 21 or 4 as combo filler but I find f13 or dash d1 then f13 to be more optimal midscreen since it’s had it’s speed adjusted.

I can’t test your combo/set up right now but I’m guessing you could use that here as well instead of 21.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Dreamcatcher said:
I do F13 to Widow’s Kiss amp (DB3 amp) 21 Swarm amp (BF4 amp, gives you the full 5 flies)

Then from there you are +4 so you basically have a free back throw against anyone that knows the MU and trying to avoid the KB. Or of course the KB. You can also go D3 to jail and keep mixing up with the flies to cash out as you please.
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I'm only like, half an hour into practice, but I'm finding this a consistent combo for more damage. Not sure if you're using 21 for a specific benefit. I have here-

F13-AMP Widow, JK, Dash F, F13 Infested- 308 Damage
F13-AMP Widow, JK, Deep Dash F, F13 Swarm- 286 Damage
 
Dreamcatcher

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
SaltShaker said:
I'm only like, half an hour into practice, but I'm finding this a consistent combo for more damage. Not sure if you're using 21 for a specific benefit. I have here-

F13-AMP Widow, JK, Dash F, F13 Infested- 308 Damage
F13-AMP Widow, JK, Deep Dash F, F13 Swarm- 286 Damage
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Are you able to get the swarm amp off a JK? I was trying like hell and couldn't, or with F13 so that's why I was using 21 for the better advantage.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Dreamcatcher said:
Are you able to get the swarm amp off a JK? I was trying like hell and couldn't, or with F13 so that's why I was using 21 for the better advantage.
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You're right, there's something weird going on here. I can get the Infested and the regular Swarm ender 10/10 times but the AMP version of Swarm won't connect. Wth lol.
 
Dreamcatcher

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
SaltShaker said:
You're right, there's something weird going on here. I can get the Infested and the regular Swarm ender 10/10 times but the AMP version of Swarm won't connect. Wth lol.
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Yeah I got all excited because I thought you found a way to dash cancel perfectly to get it to work! :eek:

That's what I was having happen, I could connect swarm without amp on just about anything... but I was missing out on 4 flies for more damage so I tried doing my other way so I could amp it off 21. Plus you could just go to straight swarm amp from widow's kiss so they can't breakaway. (If you see they have 2 d-bars and think it will kill your setup) It must have a different box because they knew that would be broken af if they didn't alter it. Lol
 
fluffybunbunkittens

fluffybunbunkittens

Apprentice
Learning 21 cancels into widow's kiss (12 works vs big bodies) made me give Arachno a proper go... It just deals so much more damage that it makes up for losing Buzzed safety/control. Plus, I like anything that gives an excuse to use fireflies (or swarm).

On that note, I don't think it's worth it to get 5 flies on them just for the throw KB, since you lose them on any escape/fatal/krushing. The main thing is getting the KB off with even just one, 290 is still an alright damage spike.

Throw escapes still vanish them after the KB has been used... but do consider is it even really worth it to pay 2 bars for amped swarm + recall doing 150 dmg at most, since the opponent can just block most of it (so you need to combo into it, which you need bars for). Unless you're in a losing round, where you will get the amped swarm bar back by the time the next round starts, as the bugs do persist between rounds.

But yay, two usable variations!
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
fluffybunbunkittens said:
Learning 21 cancels into widow's kiss (12 works vs big bodies) made me give Arachno a proper go... It just deals so much more damage that it makes up for losing Buzzed safety/control. Plus, I like anything that gives an excuse to use fireflies (or swarm).

On that note, I don't think it's worth it to get 5 flies on them just for the throw KB, since you lose them on any escape/fatal/krushing. The main thing is getting the KB off with even just one, 290 is still an alright damage spike.

Throw escapes still vanish them after the KB has been used... but do consider is it even really worth it to pay 2 bars for amped swarm + recall doing 150 dmg at most, since the opponent can just block most of it (so you need to combo into it, which you need bars for). Unless you're in a losing round, where you will get the amped swarm bar back by the time the next round starts, as the bugs do persist between rounds.

But yay, two usable variations!
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Keep in mind the frankly ridiculous comeback potential having 5 flies loaded gives you. Say you load 5 early on in a round, and only go for back throws after that. Opponent gets the life lead and you get your FB and 2 bars back. Now you can hitconfirm f13 into 50% unbreakable.
 
UghGetOuttaHere

UghGetOuttaHere

Number Cruncher. Jack of All Trades.
Dont know if anyone noticed this, but amplified strepsitera cant be cancelled anymore. They will have to deal with the at least 2 bugs if it lands on the ground.....
Unless it was always like this? But i dont think it was.
 
Pterodactyl

Pterodactyl

Plus on block.
fluffybunbunkittens said:
...and then you lose them all to a random KB.

Deadly Swarm is cute, but besides the new KB, not something to stock up on.
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The thing about deadly swarm is that it’s something you stack passively anyway.

It’s a useful bonus for just playing optimally.

I personally would only ever user amp bf4 against characters who don’t have a lot or easy KBs. Otherwise it’s using a whole bar on a meter hungry character for a gamble that doesn’t have a huge payoff.

If you aren’t fighting someone like Geras or Scorpion though, it’s a very convenient tool.
 
Dreamcatcher

Dreamcatcher

EFL Founder
fluffybunbunkittens said:
...and then you lose them all to a random KB.

Deadly Swarm is cute, but besides the new KB, not something to stock up on.
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Most will probably go for the higher damage if the KB is already spent of course, but if you do passively add flies up (like @Pterodactyl said) imagine stealing a game where their life is teetering and you cash out DD1 fullscreen? One word: Satisfying. Lol

One swarm amp is all it takes too, leaving you +4. I love it.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Dreamcatcher said:
Most will probably go for the higher damage if the KB is already spent of course, but if you do passively add flies up (like @Pterodactyl said) imagine stealing a game where their life is teetering and you cash out DD1 fullscreen? One word: Satisfying. Lol

One swarm amp is all it takes too, leaving you +4. I love it.
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Call back can't kill, or at least last i checked it couldn't. Which admittedly was aa long time ago.
 
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