MK11 SHANG TSUNG Discussion

[kcd117]

I’m impressed at how little labbing people did against Shang lol. Ground Skulls is only safe against like 5 characters, and even then they get a free way in if they block it.

Any half decent player was able to exploit this pre patch, but when they made a bad decision Shang was able to make them pay for it. The patch made it so he needs to land 7 neutral ground skulls to kill you instead of 4, or 5 fullcombos instead of 3, without considering the fact that 1 bad spaced skull can mean death in a lot of matchups and he is not very good at opening people up.

It is not downplaying... it is just playing lol. I’m asking a simple question for those calling it bs downplay: out of your personal top 20 characters in the game, who does he not lose to now?

If you did a semi-competent lab work your answer shouldn’t be over 6. If you think a character can succeed at high level having 14 out of the 20 most common picks as bad matchups then just wait and see how many Shang’s in top 32 we’re gonna see from now on.

If only he had a viable second variation to cover some matchups...

 

[deathstroke187]

I’m impressed at how little labbing people did against Shang lol. Ground Skulls is only safe against like 5 characters, and even then they get a free way in if they block it.

Any half decent player was able to exploit this pre patch, but when they made a bad decision Shang was able to make them pay for it. The patch made it so he needs to land 7 neutral ground skulls to kill you instead of 4, or 5 fullcombos instead of 3, without considering the fact that 1 bad spaced skull can mean death in a lot of matchups and he is not very good at opening people up.

It is not downplaying... it is just playing lol. I’m asking a simple question for those calling it bs downplay: out of your personal top 20 characters in the game, who does he not lose to now?

If you did a semi-competent lab work your answer shouldn’t be over 6. If you think a character can succeed at high level having 14 out of the 20 most common picks as bad matchups then just wait and see how many Shang’s in top 32 we’re gonna see from now on.

If only he had a viable second variation to cover some matchups...

they nerfed his dmg hard but doesnt give him anything els in return. like you said he has so many bad mu. in the top 10 he lose to all of them. now the character isnt viable anymore , shang is dead

that kind of over nerf is bad for the scene, every competitive shang player will drop the character and go for broken top tiers. we wont have character variety even more now. NRS wonder why SF players are laughing at NRS games. cause they cant balance for shit witout creating a even bigger mess.

 

[kcd117]

they nerfed his dmg hard but doesnt give him anything els in return. like you said he has so many bad mu. in the top 10 he lose to all of them. now the character isnt viable anymore , shang is dead

that kind of over nerf is bad for the scene, every competitive shang player will drop the character and go for broken top tiers. we wont have character variety even more now. NRS wonder why SF players are laughing at NRS games. cause they cant balance for shit witout creating a even bigger mess.

I think we’ll have more character variety bc at least 5-8 new characters are better now after the patch, but Shang was the only victim lol. The character is good but not effective with his current variations.

They could maybe have made his special staight fireball on his second variation way faster on startup, make his regular db1 safe, his soul jar faster etc to make up for what he lost in the first one.

 

[deathstroke187]

Close hell sparks, yes I agree, are unsafe against almost all the cast, but why would you even use these up close? but what about far ones? This is where auto pilot comes with extremely low risk. Only Geras, Erron, Cetrion, Sub zero, Liu kang can punish and maybe someone else.. And even if they punish its like 12%~ And if you hit? take that 28% dmg. So about what risk we are talking about? Its just one of those "why not" moves.

go to the lab man

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

how the fuck is ground skulls in shang favor its UNSAFE most characters can just reversal at the 1st skull or dash full combo, you can also fb the second one full combo. you guys did 0 labbing before spitting bullshit around at how broken shang is.

The ground skulls in my opinion where in shangs favor because only a hand full of characters could punish them even off F24xxGS
Normally they had to FB the second hit making it -21 from -16 normally. Sub, Jacqui, Liu, had moves that could punish it without FB but 5 other characters had to. Also take into account a Slide, Flying kick, Dash Punch all did around 10% but if they guessed wrong they where eating 23%-28%
Either way not in thier favor.

Personally I still feel Shang is good but the damage nerf hurts for sure. He will have more bad MUs but only time will tell his placement.

There are still characters that struggle to get through far to close GS's and the rest requires micro dashes done timed perfectly between first GS and Second dash canceling into advancing mids.

I will not act like I know what tier Shang is i bECause its far too early.
But many characters got nerfed hard, take into account that many characters got adjusted and several ate sub 30% now like Shang.

 

[deathstroke187]

The ground skulls in my opinion where in shangs favor because only a hand full of characters could punish them even off F24xxGS
Normally they had to FB the second hit making it -21 from -16 normally. Sub, Jacqui, Liu, had moves that could punish it without FB but 5 other characters had to. Also take into account a Slide, Flying kick, Dash Punch all did around 10% but if they guessed wrong they where eating 23%-28%
Either way not in thier favor.

Personally I still feel Shang is good but the damage nerf hurts for sure. He will have more bad MUs but only time will tell his placement.

There are still characters that struggle to get through far to close GS's and the rest requires micro dashes done timed perfectly between first GS and S

dude you can dash b1 ground skulls full combo punish my friend plays sub close to mid screen its a free punish everytime.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

dude you can dash b1 ground skulls full combo punish my friend plays sub close to mid screen its a free punish everytime.

You Are not supposed to use B1/B11xx DB1 on anyone its punishable and if you do it you deserve to get punished. You also shouldn't be using Ground Skulls in the corner they will miss leaving you 44 recovery.

Safe strings to use Ground Skulls is:
F24
3U2
B3
B3U4
114

3U2 will allow Amp to hit them but the rest Wiff 3rdamp hit on block.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

dude you can dash b1 ground skulls full combo punish my friend plays sub close to mid screen its a free punish everytime.

If you space yourself properly or use the safe strings to cancel into Ground Skulls you will be safe and they can't dash through second hit and most can't punish with specials. Spacing is what keeps you safe

 

[deathstroke187]

If you space yourself properly or use the safe strings to cancel into Ground Skulls you will be safe and they can't dash through second hit and most can't punish with specials. Spacing is what keeps you safe

fb the skulls and you can dash anyway this seems like a big waste of time repeating myself , pick up shang get at high level and tell me how good shang is please and how safe the ground skulls are

 

[deathstroke187]

You Are not supposed to use B1/B11xx DB1 on anyone its punishable and if you do it you deserve to get punished. You also shouldn't be using Ground Skulls in the corner they will miss leaving you 44 recovery.

Safe strings to use Ground Skulls is:
F24
3U2
B3
B3U4
114

3U2 will allow Amp to hit them but the rest Wiff 3rdamp hit on block.

i never said i use b1 to start my combo/punish.

b3u4 isnt safe plus the string has a gap
b3,114,3U2,B3 db1 is full combo punish

the only range shang is safe from certain character is farter than mid screen. character like geras kb punish shang from that range.
shang has no real mixups and his kb are trash his throw kb does what 120 dmg ? his only good kb is f243 and even that isnt that great since its on the slow side.

 

[SHAOLIN]

I'm just gonna do my rebuttal in questions
( i'm lazy, sue me.)

1.He was getting punish then and still now for POORLY space UP Skulls. What changed?

2. Its a launcher/Punisher/ Anti-Air and Damage on top of that, it was doing mostly 30%+ at ever turn. What more do you want?

3. Blockstrings. Most of his usable string are at worst slightly negative or at best plus on block and you get to play this Strike/Throw mindgame. How can you use that to your advantage?

@PreNerf_
@t3kwytch3r

 

[M2Dave]

I'm just gonna do my rebuttal in questions
( i'm lazy, sue me.)

1.He was getting punish then and still now for POORLY space UP Skulls. What changed?

Absolutely nothing.

2. Its a launcher/Punisher/ Anti-Air and Damage on top of that, it was doing mostly 30%+ at ever turn. What more do you want?

Well, after reading this thread, I get the impression that some people also want to end every string with ground eruption while being completely safe against every character, which would be entirely broken.

3. Blockstrings. Most of his usable string are at worst slightly negative or at best plus on block and you get to play this Strike/Throw mindgame. How can you use that to your advantage?

Shang Tsung's strings are superior to characters of similar archetype such as Cetrion and Skarlet. Unlike them, he has access to an exceptional jab string, a 10 frame mid (well, technically low) attack, and a couple of advantageous normal attacks as well as strings. In my early of assessment of this patch, I think Shang Tsung remains a top 10 character. He is certainly not low tier, dead, or ruined.

I have been highly critical of NRS since Mortal Kombat 9, but the community's reaction, including this forum's, to the most recent patch has been largely hyperbolic, absurd, and embarrassing.

 

[deathstroke187]

Absolutely nothing.



Well, after reading this thread, I get the impression that some people also want to end every string with ground eruption while being completely safe against every character, which would be entirely broken.



Shang Tsung's strings are superior to characters of similar archetype such as Cetrion and Skarlet. Unlike them, he has access to an exceptional jab string, a 10 frame mid (well, technically low) attack, and a couple of advantageous normal attacks as well as strings. In my early of assessment of this patch, I think Shang Tsung remains a top 10 character. He is certainly not low tier, dead, or ruined.

I have been highly critical of NRS since Mortal Kombat 9, but the community's reaction, including this forum's, to the most recent patch has been largely hyperbolic, absurd, and embarrassing.

ok dude sure shang is top 10

 

[Hellbringer]

fb the skulls and you can dash anyway this seems like a big waste of time repeating myself , pick up shang get at high level and tell me how good shang is please and how safe the ground skulls are

Reading your posts i higly doubt you made it past kombatant.

 

[deathstroke187]

Reading your posts i higly doubt you made it past kombatant.

im demi god close to god only playing shang you ?

 

[Hellbringer]

im demi god close to god only playing shang you ?

Demigod last season with only like 80 games played and this season i hardly played any.

 

[deathstroke187]

Demigod last season with only like 80 games played and this season i hardly played any.

do you want to play ? even money match ill shut your big mouth ill even stream it

i have like 25-3 right now 80 games lol

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

i never said i use b1 to start my combo/punish.

b3u4 isnt safe plus the string has a gap
b3,114,3U2,B3 db1 is full combo punish

the only range shang is safe from certain character is farter than mid screen. character like geras kb punish shang from that range.
shang has no real mixups and his kb are trash his throw kb does what 120 dmg ? his only good kb is f243 and even that isnt that great since its on the slow side.

Shang is safe on all of those strings if you do them at max range. You can space yourself to do Far Ground Skulls so nothing can punish and it can jail many characters into Close Ground Skull after but if the player is on point and does Micro-Dashes within 4f they can get past consecutive GS's far to close but its a guess and more or less a 50/50 because the window to get through successive GS is small and is beat by F2/s3.
Many characters have to work hard to get past his amazing zoning and only 5 characters ignore it completely so its in his favor. If the opponent guesses wrong they eat 23% from a connected GS from near full screen. They have to make multiple reads and lose health and are put full screen on every touch to do it again. If Shang guesses wrong and throws out the wrong projectile he takes zero damage from max range Far Ground Skulls which is his optimal range they only gain some ground but even when they block it and make the right read it has very good pushback and he can force a guess by using another GS or Mids or disjointed hitbox normals like s3/B3.
He also has great buttons up close, mid range and far. Something for everything.

There are characters that can get in easily and out zone him but mist of the cast are working hard vs his tools.

He went from 28% to 24% midscreen off F2 and 114 and went from 23% to 16% ground Skull into Ground skull. He lost chip from GS but not much and still has multiple Staggers, Number of Hit mix and frame traps to open up the opponents and force guess including his Auto-Shimmy 11/114/112 which he has a disjointed hitbox on making it hard for players to interrupt 11-114 pressure. B1 stagger/B1D2 is a guess. He has get off me tools B3D4/B3xxGS (50/50) F2 stagger which has a KB like B1 and is hit confirm able and has frame traps.
I was a Shang main I don't like that he got a damage nerf but I don't feel he is garbage like some have made it sound.
Many characters lost damage from the patch:
Sonya lost her combo extender and 35% midscreen rest and and lost almost 20% on some combos. She us clearing about 27% mid screen.
Jacqui lost damage
Hell Cassie has always done less than 30% and does 22% in yaas queen and is considered top 5 by everyone.
Half the cast are characters that get less than 30% midscreen and they are still good if not A Tier and up.

I wish they would have only reduced GS by half 2-4% instead of 4-6% but I feel he is still A Tier or above hell maybe higher. We have so many changes to the cast and need time to learn MU's before knowing where everyone falls tier wise. Its just that its Day 2 after patch and some are claiming Shang is bottom 15 because he got a 4-6% damage reduction.

Let's give it time. Take into account many characters got changes and damage nerds and that makes many characters stronger from that alone.

 

[deathstroke187]

Shang is safe on all of those strings if you do them at max range. You can space yourself to do Far Ground Skulls so nothing can punish and it can jail many characters into Close Ground Skull after but if the player is on point and does Micro-Dashes within 4f they can get past consecutive GS's far to close but its a guess and more or less a 50/50 because the window to get through successive GS is small and is beat by F2/s3.
Many characters have to work hard to get past his amazing zoning and only 5 characters ignore it completely so its in his favor. If the opponent guesses wrong they eat 23% from a connected GS from near full screen. They have to make multiple reads and lose health and are put full screen on every touch to do it again. If Shang guesses wrong and throws out the wrong projectile he takes zero damage from max range Far Ground Skulls which is his optimal range they only gain some ground but even when they block it and make the right read it has very good pushback and he can force a guess by using another GS or Mids or disjointed hitbox normals like s3/B3.
He also has great buttons up close, mid range and far. Something for everything.

There are characters that can get in easily and out zone him but mist of the cast are working hard vs his tools.

He went from 28% to 24% midscreen off F2 and 114 and went from 23% to 16% ground Skull into Ground skull. He lost chip from GS but not much and still has multiple Staggers, Number of Hit mix and frame traps to open up the opponents and force guess including his Auto-Shimmy 11/114/112 which he has a disjointed hitbox on making it hard for players to interrupt 11-114 pressure. B1 stagger/B1D2 is a guess. He has get off me tools B3D4/B3xxGS (50/50) F2 stagger which has a KB like B1 and is hit confirm able and has frame traps.
I was a Shang main I don't like that he got a damage nerf but I don't feel he is garbage like some have made it sound.
Many characters lost damage from the patch:
Sonya lost her combo extender and 35% midscreen rest and and lost almost 20% on some combos. She us clearing about 27% mid screen.
Jacqui lost damage
Hell Cassie has always done less than 30% and does 22% in yaas queen and is considered top 5 by everyone.
Half the cast are characters that get less than 30% midscreen and they are still good if not A Tier and up.

I wish they would have only reduced GS by half 2-4% instead of 4-6% but I feel he is still A Tier or above hell maybe higher. We have so many changes to the cast and need time to learn MU's before knowing where everyone falls tier wise. Its just that its Day 2 after patch and some are claiming Shang is bottom 15 because he got a 4-6% damage reduction.

Let's give it time. Take into account many characters got changes and damage nerds and that makes many characters stronger from that alone.

this is why this community is seen has a joke from other fgc.
people spreading bullshit like that comparing jacqui,sonya and fucking cassie to shang when all those character absolutely shit on shang. im done wih you dude

 

[AK Harold]

I like the attitude @deathstroke187 even though I don't agree with you I appreciate people actually wanting to play the game to show what works and what doesn't in real time.

 

[MagicMan357]

Shang is still top 10 and i bet you dedicated players will find more combos (as usual).

 

[deathstroke187]

Shang is still top 10 and i bet you dedicated players will find more combos (as usual).

hes still top 10 ? never was .. prove it man

 

[MagicMan357]

hes still top 10 ? never was .. prove it man

You have a whole thread, your saltiness isnt going to fool me. M2dave already shitted on people like you go take it up with him LMFAO.

 

[Hellbringer]

do you want to play ? even money match ill shut your big mouth ill even stream it

i have like 25-3 right now 80 games lol

If your record is so good then why do you act like a scrub?

 

[deathstroke187]

If your record is so good then why do you act like a scrub?

you dont know what a scrub is. you are spreading false information that is a problem and will hurt the game in a long run sorry that you are too blind or ignorant to see this.