MK11 SHANG TSUNG Discussion

[AK Harold]

I think it was much needed Nerf tbh. The margin for error against shang was too slim.

Luckily his tools are still intact and can still play the same. He just has to do it 20% more. Also it gives reason to soul steal to gamble for damage now even after the bug fix.

I am worried about him competing in zoning wars a little bit, but I think the corpse damage is still enough to contest.

 

[imblackjames]

is spellmaster shang still really bad?

 

[M2Dave]

I am worried about him competing in zoning wars a little bit, but I think the corpse damage is still enough to contest.

I think so. Fortunately, corpse drop still does 9% while the average projectile does 6% so the trade is in Shang Tsung's favor. If you cannot afford the trade, almost all projectiles are punishable on block and/or whiff by far ground eruption at mid range.

 

[GoaThief]

Luckily his tools are still intact and can still play the same. He just has to do it 20% more. .

It's more than that, around 25% more and arguably fundamentally changes the way in which you play that variation due to the meter reward. You also think Kitana has been buffed when most mains I've seen have said otherwise (isn't her other variation just broken now?) so I'll take what you say with a pinch of salt.

Given ST gets out zoned by a large number of the cast, can easily eat a full combo/KB from miles away should a zoning attempt fail, and nobody I've seen was complaining about ST I'm confused by this change unless I'm overlooking something. Cetrion is far better at zoning, better combos and does similar damage. What is the purpose of ST right now?

I'm not even a ST main (picked him up for a few days before patch) and I'm not convinced this was needed at all. The reward for catching someone with GS was a good trade off considering the risks. I guess we shall see how this pans out in time. Having a lot of fun with the Jade changes right now to investigate further.

 

[MagicMan357]

@GoaThief the ironic thing is kitana actually got a super buff but as usual the mk kommunity is very slow so thats a really bad point lmfao

 

[GoaThief]

@GoaThief the ironic thing is kitana actually got a super buff but as usual the mk kommunity is very slow so thats a really bad point lmfao

Haha, only just catching up today. Last I knew the usual places were in meltdown so gladly concede that if it's not the case.

 

[deathstroke187]

competitively Shang is dead not cause shang is bad but because he has too mutch bad match ups and low rewards for mid to high risks. I really dont get why they nerfed Shang harder than they nerfed Geras or Sonya wich both characters shit on Shang btw. Scorpion got a slap on the wrist anyway. fuck this game and fuck nrs

 

[kcd117]

I think so. Fortunately, corpse drop still does 9% while the average projectile does 6% so the trade is in Shang Tsung's favor. If you cannot afford the trade, almost all projectiles are punishable on block and/or whiff by far ground eruption at mid range.

Honestly, I think he can’t compete at a high level now. Not bc he is abysmal or anything, just bc he has soooo many bad matchups now that it is just not worth it.
I’ll name 15 characters, and I’d like you to point those he goes even with... not those he beat, only those he doesn’t get beat by:

Geras
Cetrion
Liu Kang
Jacqui
Sub Zero
Sonya
Cassie
Erron
Scorpion
Raiden
Kitana
Skarlet
Frost
Kabal
Baraka

I'm pointing these characters bc I think they'll be the most used in tournaments from now on, and consequently, any Shang main is very likely to run into most of them.

I'd be ok with the nerfs if everyone was nerfed just as hard... that was obviously not the case, some former top 5 characters are arguably better than they were pre-patch. Meanwhile, Shang lost the thing that made him scary, the hard punish on bad movement and spacing, and got nothing in return.

 

[SHAOLIN]

His buttons are still good guys.

 

[Mandolore1123]

The nerfs probably want Shang to focus more on morphing? The one move that makes the MU become even for a short period of time. Sure he might get out zoned, but ending in morph for bad MUs at least grants you the tools of the opponent for some time and you can capitalise

 

[dribirut]

The downplaying in this thread is actually unbelievable. Jesus..

 

[t3kwytch3r]

After playing a few matches since yesterday, i can definitely see how shangs viability has dropped with the damage nerf. I think it was a bit heavy handed, considering the risk / reward of hellsparks was always high on both ends. The definitely shaved too many points of damage off, close to 100 is too much. They should have pumped his KB damage if they were gonna neuter his usual avenues. Now i barely get 300 for b1u2 KB and D2 KB.

 

[Ramuans]

The move is launcher, punisher, amazing anti air and mid range tool that did 28% without any risk against maybe half of the cast (?). Yes, the dmg nerf is big but I think it shouldnt be that strong to begin with.

 

[t3kwytch3r]

The move is launcher, punisher, amazing anti air and mid range tool that did 28% without any risk against maybe half of the cast (?). Yes, the dmg nerf is big but I think it shouldnt be that strong to begin with.

The move did all those things, yes, but it wasn't without risk. If you spaced it badly, you were getting blown up. The close version was probably the most unsafe move to use in a blockstring in the whole game.

 

[SHAOLIN]

The risk/rewards on Up Skull was heavily in Shang Tsung favors, let's not downplay that fact...

 

[t3kwytch3r]

The risk/rewards on Up Skull was heavily in Shang Tsung favors, let's not downplay that fact...

And now the R/R is in the opponents favour. If you space it right, midscreen, raw, amplify and combo, it's like, 210? Mess it up, you eat their optimal >300 damage punish

 

[PreNerf_]

It's more than that, around 25% more and arguably fundamentally changes the way in which you play that variation due to the meter reward. You also think Kitana has been buffed when most mains I've seen have said otherwise (isn't her other variation just broken now?) so I'll take what you say with a pinch of salt.

Given ST gets out zoned by a large number of the cast, can easily eat a full combo/KB from miles away should a zoning attempt fail, and nobody I've seen was complaining about ST I'm confused by this change unless I'm overlooking something. Cetrion is far better at zoning, better combos and does similar damage. What is the purpose of ST right now?

I'm not even a ST main (picked him up for a few days before patch) and I'm not convinced this was needed at all. The reward for catching someone with GS was a good trade off considering the risks. I guess we shall see how this pans out in time. Having a lot of fun with the Jade changes right now to investigate further.

Yea it was completely uncalled for. Most people don't understand how big of a deal an extra combo or two is in competitive play is. Yesterday I was playing him in kl and was getting more and more pissed off as I normally win more than i lose. Almost never lose to Kung Laos or Jade's and watching as I worked as hard as I could to win matches only to lose the whole set to a 15% life lead over and over, which would have been a win given the damage was where it was at. Most people don't understand that 4-6% is a huge difference. Now you can outplay your opponent get more touches than them and still lose with shang. So fucking angry with netherrealm.

 

[PreNerf_]

Yea it was completely uncalled for. Most people don't understand how big of a deal an extra combo or two is in competitive play is. Yesterday I was playing him in kl and was getting more and more pissed off as I normally win more than i lose. Almost never lose to Kung Laos or Jade's and watching as I worked as hard as I could to win matches only to lose the whole set to a 15% life lead over and over, which would have been a win given the damage was where it was at. Most people don't understand that 4-6% is a huge difference. Now you can outplay your opponent get more touches than them and still lose with shang. So fucking angry with netherrealm.

Paying for a dlc and then getting him nerfed from A teir down to the low end of the spectrum really chaps my ass. So my brother says, look, nightwolf is coming out in a few days. Telling me I should just pick up nightwolf. I told him that's all peachy but I spent the last two months honing my character and if I do that again with a new character and then the same thing happens to that character then I'll be done with this game. I'm not like him. I don't play every character in the cast I pick two or three (one of them a main) and stick mostly with that one. Putting two months of effort into a character only for them to make him unviable in competitive play makes me feel like not playing when i have to put the effort into months worth of another character.

 

[Agilaz]

For the record, I don't think the damage nerf makes him unviable. Not entirely at least. I just think the nerf should have been half of what it is.

I mean lol, Jacqui lost what? 10 base damage off certain moves? That's a joke of a nerf, she still hits you like a truck.

I do wish we'd get an explanation from QA when it comes to these decisions. They explained some characters changes on stream but left Shang out of that. Makes me think this a knee-jerk reaction, based on data from people (like some in this thread) who were unable to see the risk in ground skulls.

Oh well, it is what it is. It's gonna be a hard six months until maaaaybe we get a little bit of damage back.

 

[PreNerf_]

For the record, I don't think the damage nerf makes him unviable. Not entirely at least. I just think the nerf should have been half of what it is.

I mean lol, Jacqui lost what? 10 base damage off certain moves? That's a joke of a nerf, she still hits you like a truck.

I do wish we'd get an explanation from QA when it comes to these decisions. They explained some characters changes on stream but left Shang out of that. Makes me think this a knee-jerk reaction, based on data from people (like some in this thread) who were unable to see the risk in ground skulls.

Oh well, it is what it is. It's gonna be a hard six months until maaaaybe we get a little bit of damage back.

That's exactly what I said. They should have only taken half the damage. They need to put it back. Please netherrealm!!! Hot fix at least half of shangs damage back on his GS!?!?.... Once people quit playing him and you never see him in tournaments, then i think they will make the right decision.

 

[PreNerf_]

For the record, I don't think the damage nerf makes him unviable. Not entirely at least. I just think the nerf should have been half of what it is.

I mean lol, Jacqui lost what? 10 base damage off certain moves? That's a joke of a nerf, she still hits you like a truck.

I do wish we'd get an explanation from QA when it comes to these decisions. They explained some characters changes on stream but left Shang out of that. Makes me think this a knee-jerk reaction, based on data from people (like some in this thread) who were unable to see the risk in ground skulls.

Oh well, it is what it is. It's gonna be a hard six months until maaaaybe we get a little bit of damage back.

Btw, his kb combos are rediculous now. They do the damage that you got for his regular bnb before the Nerf. It's not even worth using them or risking yourself to get them anymore.

 

[SaSSolino]

For the record, I don't think the damage nerf makes him unviable. Not entirely at least. I just think the nerf should have been half of what it is.

I mean lol, Jacqui lost what? 10 base damage off certain moves? That's a joke of a nerf, she still hits you like a truck.

I do wish we'd get an explanation from QA when it comes to these decisions. They explained some characters changes on stream but left Shang out of that. Makes me think this a knee-jerk reaction, based on data from people (like some in this thread) who were unable to see the risk in ground skulls.

Oh well, it is what it is. It's gonna be a hard six months until maaaaybe we get a little bit of damage back.

That's exactly what I said. They should have only taken half the damage. They need to put it back. Please netherrealm!!! Hot fix at least half of shangs damage back on his GS!?!?.... Once people quit playing him and you never see him in tournaments, then i think they will make the right decision.

Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but I've never seen NRS go back on a change. Usually they buff other things instead, I guess they don't think it would look good if they straight up revert (even partially) a change.

 

[PreNerf_]

The risk/rewards on Up Skull was heavily in Shang Tsung favors, let's not downplay that fact...

Heavily in his favor? If you make the wrong read then you eat a full combo and he doesn't have the tools to deal with most of the cast in close even if they somehow mess up and don't get a combo in at higher level play it's impossible to keep anyone out specially the higher teirs in the cast. You have to make all the right reads or it's goodbye shang. I'm not saying that he doesn't have strong tools. He does. But he couldn't deal with most other zoners I the game or rushdown characters once they get in. The ground skulls are a risk to use at all times and if you throw one at the wrong time that results in a loss when it's high level play. It was already a struggle to win matches at higher level play, trying to keep people out and capitalizing on others mistakes. Most of my losses came from the player reading that i was going to throw GS and then to dashing in for a combo or buffer dashing the second one for a combo. Since he came out, everyone acted like shangs GS are invincible. They were his strongest toll if you make great reads all day but if you don't they are also what gets him punished.

 

[deathstroke187]

how the fuck is ground skulls in shang favor its UNSAFE most characters can just reversal at the 1st skull or dash full combo, you can also fb the second one full combo. you guys did 0 labbing before spitting bullshit around at how broken shang is.

 

[PreNerf_]

Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but I've never seen NRS go back on a change. Usually they buff other things instead, I guess they don't think it would look good if they straight up revert (even partially) a change.

how the fuck is ground skulls in shang favor its UNSAFE most characters can just reversal at the 1st skull or dash full combo, you can also fb the second one full combo. you guys did 0 labbing before spitting bullshit around at how broken shang is.

yea, they don't get it man, and most if not all people that cry for nerfs don't lab anything. They are too lazy to spend time figuring out how to punish anything that bothers them and would rather cry Nerf and get someone's character ruined instead of labbing it up. Poor Sonya mains got it worse than shang because of people like this. She needed adjustment, but not to be completely stripped down and raped lol, and believe me I hate playing a good Sonya. But then again when I realized I was having trouble with her. I went to the LAB!!!