MK11 SHANG TSUNG Discussion

[CorneliusBrutus]

Absolutely love Shang. Probably the fighting game character I've vibed with the most in quite a while.

HOWEVER...he's also a character that acutely makes me feel the need for NRS tearing the shackles off variations. Playing around with his loadouts, offline and in kasuals, is just so damn fun. He has so much great stuff...not just the ninja moves, but exploding corpses (D2 Necromancer!!)?? Curse spells??? GAH! So many combinations to try!

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

can someone tell me shang's negative frames on up skulls? i don't have the character

-16 normally and if you flawless block the second hit its -21 which is very easy to do.

 

[Marinjuana]

I was a big proponent of kustom variations being opened up for competitive play before release but I've slowly moved away from that. Shang made me realize that many of these variations would be worthless in kustom mode. I really enjoy Soultaker, despite feeling like DF3 is unfinished, I like his gameplay and how his moves work together. It's a variation built around DB1/Crashing Flames, and I don't feel like he's weak. But if you do kustom variations in competitive, then this variation is straight trash, there would be no argument for using a variation that does 25% punishes while other characters and other Shang loadouts are doing 20% more damage and all sorts of other nonsense. And Shang's Flame wall seems cheap af haha

So, while I think kustoms are fun, I don't really think it would be good for the game to open it all up for competitive.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

It's a variation built around DB1/Crashing Flames, and I don't feel like he's weak.

But every variation that doesn't have ground skulls will have Crashing Flames

 

[Marinjuana]

But every variation that doesn't have ground skulls will have Crashing Flames

Yeah, but not without the healing jar and Soul Scatter, which takes away a key neutral tool in Corpse Drop. As a kustom ability, Soul Scatter is objectively bad, but as a tournament variation, Soultaker can have value and a place in the meta.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

Yeah, but not without the healing jar and Soul Scatter, which takes away a key neutral tool in Corpse Drop. As a kustom ability, Soul Scatter is objectively bad, but as a tournament variation, Soultaker can have value and a place in the meta.

Well I don't want to hijack another thread for my kustom advocacy (lol), but it's TBD how much of a place in the meta Soultaker actually will have. Right now the value I've gotten from it is for the occasional surprise Soul Scatter amp which people just haven't played against it enough to remember what the hell it does, and for hipsters who want to break from the crowd. To my knowledge there hasn't been any tournaments yet with Shang, but the sense I get is it's going to be a very high % Warlock play. He should be playable in EVO, right? Anyway, in my mind the argument that kustoms might force obsolescence on an arbitrarily grouped and poorly constructed set of abilities is not something that convinces me against kustom viability.

 

[Marinjuana]

Anyway, in my mind the argument that kustoms might force obsolescence on an arbitrarily grouped and poorly constructed set of abilities is not something that convinces me against kustom viability.

I don't agree with this. Have a good one

 

[SaSSolino]

Yeah, but not without the healing jar and Soul Scatter, which takes away a key neutral tool in Corpse Drop. As a kustom ability, Soul Scatter is objectively bad, but as a tournament variation, Soultaker can have value and a place in the meta.

I think you are looking at the picture from a weird angle there. The problem to me are underpowered moves, fix those and you can have custom variations with every move having a use.

To use your example: what's the point in having a move who's sole purpose is taking away another move? Because that's all that Soul Scatter does at the moment.

In my opinion the solution would be to buff Soul Scatter so it's more or less as good as Corpse Drop, but with its use in rushdown. I'd say better, since it takes a slot away, but rushdown isn't what Shang's made for so it makes sense that he has to give up something for it.

 

[Marinjuana]

I think you are looking at the picture from a weird angle there. The problem to me are underpowered moves, fix those and you can have custom variations with every move having a use.

To use your example: what's the point in having a move who's sole purpose is taking away another move? Because that's all that Soul Scatter does at the moment.

In my opinion the solution would be to buff Soul Scatter so it's more or less as good as Corpse Drop, but with its use in rushdown. I'd say better, since it takes a slot away, but rushdown isn't what Shang's made for so it makes sense that he has to give up something for it.

Soul Scatter amplifiy has its uses and Soul Scatter has its uses as a block string ender, even if it's very underwhelming. But the combination makes for a fun variation.

I don't think buffing everything to make it cheap would make a fun game. Sub Zero with mid Ice Ball and slide is rough, Sub Zero ice ball clone thing is rough, Scorpion with Misery Blade is rough, Shang doing 40% combos is rough. Some of these moves don't belong in the meta we are currently playing in tourney mode and I enjoy this meta.

 

[SaSSolino]

I don't think buffing everything to make it cheap would make a fun game.

I never said cheap, I said useful. Besides if something is too good then you can nerf it just as well. I just want moves to actually do something.

 

[Marinjuana]

I never said cheap, I said useful. Besides if something is too good then you can nerf it just as well. I just want moves to actually do something.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth but I don't know how you can make the Soultaker loadout viable in Kompetitive without major nerfs to cheap stuff and buffs to Soultaker stuff. And Soul Scatter is horrendous as a kustom move but not useless as a move in the Soultaker tourney variation. But yes #BuffSoulScatter

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

I think you are looking at the picture from a weird angle there. The problem to me are underpowered moves, fix those and you can have custom variations with every move having a use.

To use your example: what's the point in having a move who's sole purpose is taking away another move? Because that's all that Soul Scatter does at the moment.

I think sometimes as gamers we tend to have a strict view on "balance". Fitting a bunch of fundamentally different things in a very narrow relative power band can be nearly impossible. I wouldn't stress too much about having all abilities picked at a rate above some minimum threshold because it's not very realistic, especially not if NRS decides to flip the switch on As long as those abilities are there to provide interesting options for people to at least try and experiment with, or can be played with by people who like them for fun if not at the highest levels of competition, that's OK.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Soul Scatter amplifiy has its uses and Soul Scatter has its uses as a block string ender, even if it's very underwhelming. But the combination makes for a fun variation.

I don't think buffing everything to make it cheap would make a fun game. Sub Zero with mid Ice Ball and slide is rough, Sub Zero ice ball clone thing is rough, Scorpion with Misery Blade is rough, Shang doing 40% combos is rough. Some of these moves don't belong in the meta we are currently playing in tourney mode and I enjoy this meta.

I probably didn't see all of your posts. But what I'm getting is you don't want customs out of fear of moves being too strong.
I feel it can be done safely by adjusting the moves after they have made that leap. Obviously certain moves are strong but hopefully they will adjust them. I feel many variations can benefit from Kustom Ranked. Many variations are lacking and having different choices is always good. I see why some are reorehensive to the idea with how long a patch takes to come in 11 but I feel it shouldn't be the chain that limits characters possibilities.

 

[M2Dave]

Shang Tsung

• Shang Tsung - Ground Eruption first hit now does 50 damage (was 60), second hit now does 40 damage (was 60)

• Shang Tsung - Ground Eruption Amplified now does 30 damage (was 60)

• Shang Tsung - Serpent Stab (Down + Front Punch) now has 7 startup frames (down from 8), 2 more recovery frames, and has 1 more frame of hitstun

• Shang Tsung - Ankle Snap (Down + Front Kick) now has 8 startup frames (down from 7), 2 more recovery frames, and has 1 more frame of hitstun

• Shang Tsung - Fixed several visual effect issues while "Soul Swap" ability is performed

• Shang Tsung - Fix for visual issue with a floating weapon appearing after performing Kollector's "Play For Souls" Krushing Blow while morphed

• Shang Tsung - Fixed problem with Shang Tsung facing the incorrect direction after hitting Kronika with Reptile Slide

• Shang Tsung - Fixed a rare issue that could allow the damage buff from Soul Steal to persist into the next round

 

[Marinjuana]

Slight ground inferno nerf, slightly faster d1, less spammy d1/d3 and no more damage buff through rounds from Soul Steal. Wish the damage buff thing was still there but these are reasonable nerfs IMO, I thought they might go for ground inferno block frames tbh

 

[SaSSolino]

Slight ground inferno nerf, slightly faster d1, less spammy d1/d3 and no more damage buff through rounds from Soul Steal. Wish the damage buff thing was still there but these are reasonable nerfs IMO, I thought they might go for ground inferno block frames tbh

I don't think nerfing his damage was the right move, personally I would have gone for some hit regions instead, but yeah the nerf seems absolutely reasonable.

 

[kcd117]

yeah, his nerfs were pretty insignificant imo. He used to get 30% from a jik now he gets 25%, I don't think it is that big of a deal tbh.
He'll be fine!

 

[Agilaz]

I consider the nerfs unreasonable, but at the same time they're not super impactful. Feels more like they nerfed him for the sake of it? Oh well.

Shang Tsung Lives.

 

[legion666]

So they leave Spellmaster the same WTF, it is unplayable! Should have taken that variation out completely and gone with ninja moves.

 

[Agilaz]

anybody have a way to get above 300 damage now without kb or morph?

 

[Agilaz]

3U2 ex ground skulls, 4, ground skulls does like 285 now

 

[M2Dave]

yeah, his nerfs were pretty insignificant imo. He used to get 30% from a jik now he gets 25%, I don't think it is that big of a deal tbh.

5% less on combos will be a very big deal at a high level, but damage reduction is preferable over nerfing frames as someone else already mentioned.

3U2 ex ground skulls, 4, ground skulls does like 285 now

That combo used to do 34% if I remember correctly.

Nonetheless, Shang Tsung should definitely remain one of the better characters in the game.

 

[kcd117]

I consider the nerfs unreasonable, but at the same time they're not super impactful. Feels more like they nerfed him for the sake of it? Oh well.

Shang Tsung Lives.

5% less on combos will be a very big deal at a high level, but damage reduction is preferable over nerfing frames as someone else already mentioned.



That combo used to do 34% if I remember correctly.

Nonetheless, Shang Tsung should definitely remain one of the better characters in the game.

Yeah I know but I meant that he didn't change that much gameplan-wise. I still can see him beating the characters he already beat.
Some of his matchups got worse, like Sonya and Liu, but some are a bit better, like Erron and Jacqui.
He remains pretty much the same imo.

 

[Agilaz]

I have to say, Amp Ground Skulls into Ground Skull only doing 16% now kinda hurts..

 

[deathstroke187]

they nerf shang dmg but not Geras and they buff liu.. haha fuck nrs