The EVO 2019 MK11 Hype, Salt and Discussion Thread!

It's that time of year.. It's that time of the day.. We're in there boyz, it's EVO 2019. Discuss the craziness of this weekend and everything that happens here!

LET'S GO!!

P.S. for reference, here is dat bracket: EVO 2019 MK11 Smash.gg Brackets

And the stream:

 

Amazingly OP online and undervalued offline.

He's incredibly good offline as well, his toolset demands it.

I suppose those players just prefer the characters they chose.

As I said there was plenty of people in pools using him, they just all got owned and almost all the pros don't use them and none of the top pros do... that should tell you something about scorp.. he just isn't an issue. He is a good character, but no even remotely OP, in fact he doesn't make the cut at all.

 

So despite the character repetition, for fans of high level play this was really a treat. The first year for our games is often kind of random, but this may be the first year where both the competition and gameplay looked polished year one.

I saw endless quantities of reads, spacing, risks being taken, adjustments, etc. Watching both Sonic and Dragon play neutral is a delight, and the way that Sonic matches zoners’ movement literally dash for dash to stay in on them is really something else.

I did predict that Deoxys would make top 8, but I had no idea that he’d go so deep. Each year we’ve seen new stars rise up — Scar, Dragon, Tekken Master, Rewind, Tweedy, etc., and I won’t be surprised if Deoxys is the newest edition to that group. The kid’s fundamentals simply shine.

Hayatei is always a pleasure to watch, and his consistently smart play was one of the highlights of this tournament for me. Also for Foxy and TM to be as consistent as they’ve been at EVO across multiple games is really impressive.

This game will only get better after it is patched, and after years of starting from general brokenness, that’s a really exciting thought. I think there’s a lot more great stuff to come.

 

yeah it is hard being the biggest selling game in the history of the franchise and having the largest online player counts in the history of the franchise and the biggest event turn out ever for NRS at combo breaker, evo and more.... man what will they do with all this failure!!

Where i mentioned mk11 being a failure? I like the game a lot. But i didn't saw a single new thing coming out from it. Not that i wanted deborah suddenly smashing everyone, but even the top tiers still play the same way over and over again. I liked Viennality a lot more. But hey, for me MK11 right now it's a lot more fun to play than to watch at this point.

 

Amazingly OP online and undervalued offline.

He's incredibly good offline as well, his toolset demands it.

I suppose those players just prefer the characters they chose.

Or just maybe people that have problem against Scorpion online/offline are just not good enough or dont know how to play against him.
Most people just play "rushdown" offensive and that is. Against Scorpion you have to play more carefully and has to be ready to play more defensively, and block effectively. Most people just go straight aggressive and get punish by his teleport and cry non-stop against Scorpion.
But that is not a balance issue, but a bad knowing of the matchup.
I dont see anything wrong with Scorpion to be fair. Same for Sub Zero(my main with Jonny Cage).
You just need to adapt and play with certain style against them. But its like that against most characters ....

There is a reason why Sub Zero and Scorpion not deliever in pro tournaments and that is because at top level, they are not that good.
MashiroTamigi is International tournament, its lacks most top players ....

 

There is a reason why Sub Zero and Scorpion not deliever in pro tournaments and that is because at top level, they are not that good.
MashiroTamigi is International tournament, its lacks most top players ....

this is conjecture and not true.

 

Go prove me wrong then.
What is the best placement on Scorpion and Sub Zero players in majors?
And there is some skilled players that plays this 2 characters. From the moment Scar decide to plays Scorpion and dash Sonya for a while his placing is just plain sh***.
People that are low/mid tier online have problems mostly with Scorp teleport and Sub Zero OH. But top skilled players know how to react and plays against them and totally destroys them.

 

Go prove me wrong then.
What is the best placement on Scorpion and Sub Zero players in majors?
And there is some skilled players that plays this 2 characters. From the moment Scar decide to plays Scorpion and dash Sonya for a while his placing is just plain sh***.
People that are low/mid tier online have problems mostly with Scorp teleport and Sub Zero OH. But top skilled players know how to react and plays against them and totally destroys them.

What? Are you saying I'm a bad player because I can't react to a 19f move in an environment with a built in delay?

 

So despite the character repetition, for fans of high level play this was really a treat. The first year for our games is often kind of random, but this may be the first year where both the competition and gameplay looked polished year one.

I saw endless quantities of reads, spacing, risks being taken, adjustments, etc. Watching both Sonic and Dragon play neutral is a delight, and the way that Sonic matches zoners’ movement literally dash for dash to stay in on them is really something else.

I did predict that Deoxys would make top 8, but I had no idea that he’d go so deep. Each year we’ve seen new stars rise up — Scar, Dragon, Tekken Master, Rewind, Tweedy, etc., and I won’t be surprised if Deoxys is the newest edition to that group. The kid’s fundamentals simply shine.

Hayatei is always a pleasure to watch, and his consistently smart play was one of the highlights of this tournament for me. Also for Foxy and TM to be as consistent as they’ve been at EVO across multiple games is really impressive.

This game will only get better after it is patched, and after years of starting from general brokenness, that’s a really exciting thought. I think there’s a lot more great stuff to come.

did you see Deoxys bait sonic to poke and catch it with the sand KB ? Play of the tournament, IMO.

Also, New addition, not edition.

 

It's laughable that people are saying sub and scorp aren't good because 8 of the top players didn't use them.

 

It's laughable that people are saying sub and scorp aren't good because 8 of the top players didn't use them.

No, it's laughable that people try to press that they are good when they honestly lack any threatening tools. They are decent characters, but there are ten to fifteen better than either of them.

 

No, it's laughable that people try to press that they are good when they honestly lack any threatening tools. They are decent characters, but there are ten to fifteen better than either of them.

50/50's, a full-screen insta freeze, and a cancelable tele aren't threating tools? I guess Baraka isn't a threatening character either since we saw so little of him amongst 8 players.

 

So why some people just use top 8 character as a pro tiers, mostly and how strong they are?
And no its not top 8. And its not one tournament, you get it ? In top 64 there is a lot more Kung Lao, Jade, Cetrion, Liu Kang, Baraka, Jonny Cage, Kabal, Jacqui Briggs and so on character, yet the so "super imba" character with moves "nobody" can react no one can do some good result, and really skilled top players not pick them. There is a reason for that.

thlityoursloat, from the whole comment you decide to catch one word? And not put a brain sense in the whole sentence, great i love such posters ....
Let me explain it even further.
Its not only about reacting to certain move, but how you approach this matchup, what your strategy is and a lot more.
Sub Zero have so many flaws, and so many moves that if you block or dodge you going to punish him hard. His combo are sh*** hard and most people drop them quite much.
And Sub Zero is in low tiers in most people(who really knows this game) tier lists.
SeymorSlash216, if you are getting freezed by Sub Zero from neutral, then yeah you are bad. His Ice Ball start up and speed move are so so slow in this game.
And go in the lab for his OH to learn the animation and you will see you will start doing a lot better. But do this daily if its so much of a problem for you. Same for Scorpion teleport.
And Sub Zero 50/50s it`s for you and for him. If you block he eat full punish.

 

If sub's combos are hard I must have godly execution......

 

I dont know your execution, but yeah Sub Zero combos(some of them) are hard as f** and its fu** hard to be consistent with them.
If you don`t believe me go watch pro Sub Zero players and how many combos they are dropping. Buffalo miss like 90% of his Frozen Over last shot(kick) combo or he simply skip it.
His conversion are also hard. Most time you will fail and you will eat punish.
Yeah combo that include jumping, dashing and cross-up are harder. In some of his combos you need to be extremeley fast and accurate for the Ice Ball(one of his anti-air or corner combo) or you going to miss it.
But you can always prove me wrong with a videos of yours where you do 10 of his combos in a row, without droping it.

 

But you can always prove me wrong with a videos of yours where you do 10 of his combos in a row, without droping it.

Ok fine, just as long as you promise to hit the Geras 72% combo one time for me

 

Who has SZ low tier? Seriously, who? All the lists I've seen have him mid-high tier.
How does he have many flaws? Not going to deny he has them, but "many" has me pressing x to doubt. What are his weaknesses other than a lack of an oppressive mid? and no, his launching 50/50 is not one, because that's just how a launching 50/50 should be.

 

Ok fine, just as long as you promise to hit the Geras 72% combo one time for me

The one ninjakilla does?
Not playing Geras, but gimme the string and i try to do it for you.

thlityoursloat, a lot of people:
Should i list them?
SonicFox had him very low

HoneyBee and Biohazard

PND Ketchup

Reo had him at 11 place in his tier list

Tweedy had him in 14th place
https://media.eventhubs.com/images/2019/07/19_tweedy01.jpg

This one?:
https://mk11.tierlist.gg/

Should i continue ?
And who is the ones who put Sub Zero in a high tier list so i can laugh on them ?

And yeah he have many flaws. His Low-Profiling Issues is just insanely bad. You can counter a lot of his move by crouch. Go check that thread:

Subzero's Low-Profiling Issues

So I've mentioned this a few times already but I want to properly document it and hope NRS see this and fix it D1, wakeup U3, and DF2 are all low-profilable EDIT: Fatal Blow can also be low profiled.... 2nd edit: B21 too....

testyourmight.com

His moves are relative slow and if pressure him he is going to eat it. The only thing you need to carry on him is his OH. And for that you have Lab. Yeah online su** because of wifi warriors, but let`s hope for f** ping filter.

 

Don't think he works like that offline.

Scorpion being on the same level as Erron, Geras, Sonya, etc. is a myth.

 

The one ninjakilla does?

That's the one

 

50/50's, a full-screen insta freeze, and a cancelable tele aren't threating tools? I guess Baraka isn't a threatening character either since we saw so little of him amongst 8 players.

Subs 50/50 is threatening in his variation with ex ice ball, sure. But what does that matter when other characters do the same thing with more safety, more damage, or with more options? Strike/Throw is a 50/50 and characters with good mids can abuse that without resource on loop. Subs threatening tool is just out classed. Insta freeze? Wtf, dude. Its a fast projectile that freezes, dont trade with it. Its not even that hard to deal with.

Scorpions teleport and cancels are so memed now. If he does it once and you punish, he cant break. Risk/Reward is not in his favor.

Sorry that you dont fully understand the game.

 

That's the one

You know the strings or has to search for the video with him doing it ? Will try to record it, but it will be tomorrow, cause girlfriend is here and wanna watch a movie. So bye from me for now.

 

Subs 50/50 is threatening in his variation with ex ice ball, sure. But what does that matter when other characters do the same thing with more safety, more damage, or with more options? Strike/Throw is a 50/50 and characters with good mids can abuse that without resource on loop. Subs threatening tool is just out classed. Insta freeze? Wtf, dude. Its a fast projectile that freezes, dont trade with it. Its not even that hard to deal with.

Scorpions teleport and cancels are so memed now. If he does it once and you punish, he cant break. Risk/Reward is not in his favor.

Sorry that you dont fully understand the game.

Most other characters can't put you into a vortex that you can't break or roll out of that's where sub is different from other characters with 50/50's. Ex freeze isn't just useful for trades, it can also be used to extends whiff punishes if you can react or make the read.

Lol @ punishing a tele and thinking a scorp will just stop using it until they get bar back. I'm not even gonna respond to how insane that sounds. If you understand the game so well, where's that top 8 @ a major?

 

Most other characters can't put you into a vortex that you can't break or roll out of that's where sub is different from other characters with 50/50's. Ex freeze isn't just useful for trades, it can also be used to extends whiff punishes if you can react or make the read.

Lol @ punishing a tele and thinking a scorp will just stop using it until they get bar back. I'm not even gonna respond to how insane that sounds. If you understand the game so well, where's that top 8 @ a major?

Stay free, bud.

 

You know the strings or has to search for the video with him doing it ? Will try to record it, but it will be tomorrow, cause girlfriend is here and wanna watch a movie. So bye from me for now.

s4xxdb21(kb), d1xxbf2(amp), s4xxbf1(amp), d2, d2, jbd2, s4xxdb1

I just wanted to shimmy in and say that sub’s combos are mad easy lol

 

Stay free, bud.

So that's a no on the top 8, just like I thought.