The EVO 2019 MK11 Hype, Salt and Discussion Thread!

It's that time of year.. It's that time of the day.. We're in there boyz, it's EVO 2019. Discuss the craziness of this weekend and everything that happens here!

LET'S GO!!

P.S. for reference, here is dat bracket: EVO 2019 MK11 Smash.gg Brackets

And the stream:

 

This guy's a piece of work lul

Ive never seen someone try so hard lol

 

The argument “hey, someone got hit by this once or twice, that means its not reactable” is bullshit
Milena’s f3 in mkx was 30 something frames of startup and people still got hit by it sometimes. And that is one of the most reactable moves in the history.
Yes u can react to sub’s f2, and yes people will get hit by it sometimes lmao.

 

Exactly. And i give plenty of example and proof with videos on labs or matches.
But as i said Lab is the perfect place to try to learn and improve your reaction and see if you can react to a move or not.
There was one guy that explain that the fastest you can react its between 14 and 16 frame. Still this is not a math and you probably not react that fast everytime. And obviously some people can react a lot faster than the others. There is a thing called muscle memory as well and when you practice/play against certain move, of course you are going to react to them, and some people not.
Depends on a certain individual.
But as i said you have to learn the animation and with practice you will start reacting to it most of the time.
Tom Brady said 2 months ago, that he is reacting to that move 80% of the time.
And just as he show in the video, if you dont wanna spend time in lab, just Fuzzy block it, you still are going to block it most of the time.

If you react to something in LAB most of the time, that mean its reactable. In matches there is a lot more conditions thats going on, thats why some pro or people not react to every/certrain move.
Im talking as a whole, not just Sub Zero OH. There was a lot of cry for Scorpion teleport and it was like if he decide to teleport he will combo you every time. There was plenty of complains about Erron Black drop kick.

 

The argument “hey, someone got hit by this once or twice, that means its not reactable” is bullshit
Milena’s f3 in mkx was 30 something frames of startup and people still got hit by it sometimes. And that is one of the most reactable moves in the history.
Yes u can react to sub’s f2, and yes people will get hit by it sometimes lmao.

People need to realize that in a real match you have to think about way more options than only the 50/50 ones. In the lab it‘s easy since you know it‘s coming but in a Match you can‘t just stand there and fuzzy like a maniac.
Also when a move is reactable on paper It doesn‘t mean it actually is all the time. Errons dropkick is a good example because it shares a similiar startup animation with slide, making it way harder to react. This is also why autoshimmy Strings work so good in this game because they look so damn close to a throw animation, making it so hard to react when they actually throw

 

P.P. Forget to mention that nowdays a lot pro are looking for Flawless block some moves and sometimes they get hit with a move that`s blockable reactable. You see them blocking string of attack and suddenly at the end they drop the block and get hit, this is because they are looking for flawless block in a lot of situation.
I think we will see a lot more flawless block with the time, because more and more people will master it.

 

Exactly. And i give plenty of example and proof with videos on labs or matches.
But as i said Lab is the perfect place to try to learn and improve your reaction and see if you can react to a move or not.
There was one guy that explain that the fastest you can react its between 14 and 16 frame. Still this is not a math and you probably not react that fast everytime. And obviously some people can react a lot faster than the others. There is a thing called muscle memory as well and when you practice/play against certain move, of course you are going to react to them, and some people not.
Depends on a certain individual.
But as i said you have to learn the animation and with practice you will start reacting to it most of the time.
Tom Brady said 2 months ago, that he is reacting to that move 80% of the time.
And just as he show in the video, if you dont wanna spend time in lab, just Fuzzy block it, you still are going to block it most of the time.

If you react to something in LAB most of the time, that mean its reactable. In matches there is a lot more conditions thats going on, thats why some pro or people not react to every/certrain move.
Im talking as a whole, not just Sub Zero OH. There was a lot of cry for Scorpion teleport and it was like if he decide to teleport he will combo you every time. There was plenty of complains about Erron Black drop kick.

Where is your video of a match where YOU are reacting to sub zeros overhead, cause u keep saying its easy reactable.
inb4 another 10 links of ppl posting twitter videos of them reacting to subs OH in practise mode.

 

Again visit a doctor, because there were 4 videos of matches when people reacted to OH.
The conversation was about is it reactable or not, and not if i can react it or not.
Tho i still can react it most of the time. But im Sub Zero player and i know the pattern. And actually use the Lab.
And as i said im not a 15 year old kid, who will go into it and record a match to prove something i already have done.
I make my point. Future conversation with zero arguments/facts its usless. Its like its is, its not. Im into constructive discussion that leads to something, not usless like this.
I couldnt care to change your or anyone opinion. There is obviously people who understand the game, actually use the Lab and instead of complaining about characters certain move and constantly moan for buff/nerf they actually strive to improve.
Everone have two option, to constantly moan or to actually play the game and not find easy excuses why they lost to certain character/player and to continue playing finding their mistake and aim to improve.
And the really last thing from me into this topic is this, cause i already waste too much time for discussion should have been over 2 pages ago.

 

Of course people get opened up. But sonic got hit with it in a 50/50 scenario and not as a whiff punisher. When people say it's reactable it should mean that in a 50/50 scenario OH or low case, the overhead should be blocked every single time. But it doesnt. You cannot compare f4 of Erron Black as it is a mixup by itself as its startup is similar to Slide lul.

As for your statement, the reason people get opened up could be due to:

• pressing buttons
• input errors
• trying to jump

But this is not the case in the scenario I'm referring to. This is Sub-Zero tried and true mixup against Sonic Fox, who gets head by the overhead in a guessing situation. You gotta HOLD this fact, you cant just keep brushing it aside by claiming I have no knowledge of FG's. These personal attacks just indicates you have run out of stuff to say lul


I literally just proved to you he was used in top 8. How are we supposed to have a discussion when you say stupid stuff like it "doesnt mean a sh***". I have to acknowledge Sonic's videos. I cant just say "oh, for no apparent reason imma just say it's irrelevant". Support your claims with evidence and less emotions


Yes, he has shown he can do it in a training room with nothing else to worry about. He has also shown, that he cannot apply this in real matches, thus making the notion that it's reactable at least partly false. It is a fuzzy-able mixup if done at the first possible frame, but it's not applicably reactable.

Nobody is calling for nerfs, sigh. You're just downplaying how good Sub is a high level. Scar was beat by a Sub player at CEO - and listen, Scar is one of the most consistent NRS players and fundamentally strong players as well. He's Sonic's training partner ffs and has beat him in grand finals before. This guy's reactions is no joke. If he falls to Sub-Zero it means the character is PRETTY damn solid.

To further your point about scorpion specifically, he was used in top 8 of Defend The North. Here's a reference https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2019/jul/19/defend-north-2019-results/

Not trying to keep this 'constructive debate' going. Just trying to rein in the facts.

 

Again visit a doctor, because there were 4 videos of matches when people reacted to OH.

Dude, how are you not getting this? You claim it’s reactable, so post a video of you reacting to it during an actual match. You, not “people”.

People say Jade’s 28-frame f21 is reactable, yet I still catch people with it regularly. Yes, it’s reactable, but people aren’t robots and aren’t going to react correctly 100% of the time.

 

Dude, how are you not getting this? You claim it’s reactable, so post a video of you reacting to it during an actual match. You, not “people”.

People say Jade’s 28-frame f21 is reactable, yet I still catch people with it regularly. Yes, it’s reactable, but people aren’t robots and aren’t going to react correctly 100% of the time.

It is like when people determine a move is "reactable" they think that means the move might as well not exist because no one will ever be hit by it... I have seen sonic fox get hit by reactable moves in tournament many times and he arguably has the best reactions of any player in our scene. I agree with you. Just because a move CAN be reacted to doesnt mean it WILL be reacted to 100% of the time in an actual match. In fact, even if you can react to an OH/low mixup with the training dummy 100% of the time in practice mode doesnt mean you will even react to it 50% of the time in a real match against a live opponent who can do other things besides the 50/50.

 

karaokelove, wasnt i clear already ? How many time i need to answer to a convesartion that should have been over 2-3 pages ago ?
I wont record anything to satisfied some random guy. Once again my point was made.
And i repeat many time your second sentence. You obviously not follow/read my statement.

xx007iam, all due respect, but Defend ot the North is not a major, it`s a local tournament, and just as you see, probably 80% of top players are missing.

 

karaokelove, wasnt i clear already ? How many time i need to answer to a convesartion that should have been over 2-3 pages ago ?
I wont record anything to satisfied some random guy. Once again my point was made.
And i repeat many time your second sentence. You obviously not follow/read my statement.

xx007iam, all due respect, but Defend ot the North is not a major, it`s a local tournament, and just as you see, probably 80% of top players are missing.

TYM seems to be full of these users who will post all manner of nonsense and then refuse to actually back it up when called out. I'm sure the reason you won't record has nothing to do with the fact that you can't do it. It's just like that Jade downplayer who refused to fight my Jade unless I "paid him for his time." You're all fucking punchlines just wasting everyone's time and energy.

 

How hard is it to get it ? The initial conversation was not if i can react to it, but if its reactable. You see the difference? If not, then the problem is yours.
And no im not going to satisfied anyone. And why should i, when i ask a simply question, yet they comfortable ignore it, because they cant said anything about it and put weight into my opinion.
And i backed my word with plenty of material, where people react to it.
When people said certain move its not reactable, its mean its not reactable. So what is it matter if i upload a video of 5 different people react to it, but instead its me ? Then something else will come.
And i dont care much if you or anyone believe me if i can react to something or not. For 15 time im not a 15 year old. I won`t lose my sleep on that.
I spend enough of time in this useless conversation.

 

 

End of the topic:
https://streamable.com/00hab
Time: 0:42, 1.39.

 

DEFEND THE NORTH IS A LOCAL TOURNAMENT GAHAHAHAHA

 

WHO CARES IF THE COMPETITION IS HELLA STACKED LUL

 

I dont know the problem to u guys understand @lordlosh ‘s point.
He’s saying that the move IS reactable, period.
He didn’t say in any moment that the move will never hit someone because of it.
Again, Milena’s f3, shinnok’s b3, jade’s OH.. all of them ARE reactable, but in the heat of a match they will hit you sometimes because many reasons.
There’s no point in asking him to make videos of him reacting it cuz there’s no need to, everything above 20 frames is reactable, but that doesn’t mean it will never hit.

 

There’s no point in asking him to make videos of him reacting it cuz there’s no need to, everything above 20 frames is reactable, but that doesn’t mean it will never hit.

I don't have a horse in this race but that's the key point here. Is everything about 20 frame reactable? We can say out of hand that no it is not, because it depends on the animation. Just saying. Sub's overhead does have a distinct animation, so maybe it is reactable, but evidently not everyone believes that to be the case.

Overall though there's really only so much point of arguing over this exact point when people have different reaction speeds, input delay from their setup and online latency.

 

I don't have a horse in this race but that's the key point here. Is everything about 20 frame reactable? We can say out of hand that no it is not, because it depends on the animation. Just saying. Sub's overhead does have a distinct animation, so maybe it is reactable, but evidently not everyone believes that to be the case.

Overall though there's really only so much point of arguing over this exact point when people have different reaction speeds, input delay from their setup and online latency.

I agree with you there, it totally depends on the animation.. like Erron’s f4 being 26f, it having similar animation to his slide makes it really hard to react, even tough i’ve seen people do it before.
And sure, online play is way harder to react to these moves because of delay, but definitely still possible

 

Marinjuana i have said that many, many times, its depend strongly on animation and if the character have similar move, that start with the same motion.
But Sub Zero for example doesnt move with similar animation. So if you have the reaction and see the start-up animation you can react to it.
And of course not everyone can react to it. I said that many time, that you need to use lab and to have good reactions. This comes with a lot of playing and a lot of time investment.
There is people with 26+ frame reaction, there is people who probably have 30+ frames reaction, and there is people that probably have 15-16+ frame reaction. But still this is not a constant value.
And yeah of course offline > online. The difference is huge depending on the ping you are playing.

And finally writing for the thread we are in.
Is someone have Kombat or Scar matches and their lost at the EVO? I can`t find them anywhere.