Throws

[TakeAChance]

Even if d2s have priority over throws you can still get thrown out of them.

It's not a matter of priority. If you get thrown out of a d2 it's because the throw hit before the d2 hit. It's no different than any other counter hit where an opponent's mid stuffs your d2.



They don't "eat"pokes. Throws have 0 armor and 0 invulnerability. It's a 10 frame move and if it comes out before yours it wins. Same with every mid hitting move.

You're move isn't getting "eaten". You're getting counter hit because you're still in startup frames. Any other 10 frame mid would behave the same way.

I disagree. A 10 frame throw is crushing the lows due to the size of the throw hitbox. It's a giant mid square that extends to the floor when active. As soon as that throw becomes active it is indeed crushing pokes. Online this is Infuriating.

 

[Matador Fiend]

I have to disagree, I think throws are just fine. We already see alot of games go the full 90 seconds per round because its more difficult to open up opponents in this game due to a lack of mixup tools.

I understand people in this community have a fetish for "neutral" and enjoy walking back and forth, doing nothing for 30 seconds. That being said, when shit actually gets underway, i think its good opponents need to fear the 14% throw with possible oki (depending on char) so they dont just hold block the entire game and time out rounds

Im fine with throws crushing some pokes. They are full combo punish on njp and neutral crouch. I have also seen people be gods at teching the shit out of throws.

Just my 2cents

 

[Invincible Salads]

I honestly dont think injustice is a good comparison. It's a much different game.

If throw tech was the same as injustice people would probably be getting thrown out of shimmys left and right lol.

how exactly? lol, im saying that having a 1 button tech is fine

 

[Tony at Home]

I disagree. A 10 frame throw is crushing the lows due to the size of the throw hitbox. It's a giant mid square that extends to the floor when active. As soon as that throw becomes active it is indeed crushing pokes. Online this is Infuriating.

A mid hitting someone doing a d1/d3 shouldn't be surprising at all.

Also that is not "crushing". Crushing specifically means to make another move whiff in order to hit. This is just getting counter hit

 

[Scoot Magee]

how exactly? lol, im saying that having a 1 button tech is fine

With 1 button tech covering forward and back throws it would be way too easy to tech imo.

 

[Invincible Salads]

With 1 button tech covering forward and back throws it would be way too easy to tech imo.

yet this was the case in injustice and people still got thrown plenty, so again i don't see how it would be a problem, i think you just don't like how your main way of getting damage on people would be less brain dead.

 

[Kindred]

I hate when people say "Bro just neutral duck!"
That's not the point. Point is 14% is too much damage, 1 button covering both back and forward throws needs to be implemented so that characters dont just D1~grab or cancel a teleport into grab (ahem scorpion). And with the constant throws comes the inevitable escape failed and you can eat up to 620 dmg in one round with some characters. Thats stupid.

I agree 110% with the OP of the thread. Shit has to change and wtf is with the 14% dmg buff

 

[Scoot Magee]

yet this was the case in injustice and people still got thrown plenty, so again i don't see how it would be a problem, i think you just don't like how your main way of getting damage on people would be less brain dead.

But injustice didnt have one button throw techs. Lol why do you think I have to have some motive?

 

[Invincible Salads]

But injustice didnt have one button throw techs. Lol why do you think I have to have some motive?

um yes it did, you pressed throw in order to tech throw, thats it, done.

 

[Scoot Magee]

um yes it did, you pressed throw in order to tech throw, thats it, done.

Throw is a 2 button input assigned to a hot key. You would have to commit to a throw animation if you were expecting a throw.

This is why I mentioned that people would be getting grabbed out of shimmy attempts if that was the case.

 

[MsMiharo]

Throws were 12% in mkx which already was really strong. 14 seems a bit much to me. Also it rivals most command grabs which is kinda dumb

 

[Sanjo]

How many times was Sonic Fox punished in grand finals this weekend for attempting a throw? That’s high-level play, though.

But we shouldn’t act like they’re free. Better players are making it risky to be throw-happy. It turns into a mindgame, and imo mindgames are fun. Watching Sonic whiff and get blown up for it is just part of MK11’s meta.

I think overhauling entire characters just because you don’t like that they throw you is a bit extreme. Without the 50/50s and ridiculous plus-frame cancel-heavy pressure, this game is very defense and blocking-heavy. Throws help to open that up and keep the offense fast and fluid in-close.

Throws are also a way beat the wakeup roll, counter the pokes that some people are complaining about, etc.

Imo without them the entire meta would take a turn for the worse.

I couldn't agree more. I find the throw meta great. The damage is fine too. And last but not least, KB throws are usually well distributed as it helps characters who come short in the mix up department and habe trouble opening their opponents (like Noob and his lack of overhead, 50/50, etc...). I think that throws should remain the same.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Throws aren't the reason people are bums.

 

[spidey300]

I don't like the idea of balancing a game around online play, but online throws in this game are straight bullshit. Combined with regenerating Fatal Blows, they are the big thing killing my hype for this game. You'll know 100% a throw is coming. You'll know 100% which direction the opponent will throw you. But thanks to online delay, there is still maybe a 25% chance your tech actually registers.

My solution would be to increase the size of the tech window by the amount of online delay you're experiencing at the time of the throw. Ideally, this would create a standard tech window regardless of lag and would not affect offline play. If you've got 80ms of delay, you have an extra 80ms to tech the throw. Probably easier said than done, though.

Throws shouldn't do 14% fucking damage. A throw should be a tool to break through an overly-defensive player's constant blocking. It should not be a primary source of offensive damage. A throw should not do more damage than an entire uncancelable string, most of which do around 12%. Characters that rely on regular throws to get their damage are just poorly designed and in great need of an overhaul. Throws should do maybe 10%. That's enough damage to make the opponent not want to eat them, but not enough damage that a player would opt to throw rather than use their better offensive tools. Right now throws aren't being used specifically to break heavy defense, they're being used to turn every fucking character into Zangief.

The last big issue is that this throw meta significantly benefits the best characters that have strong mids. A lot of the poorly-designed characters that rely on throws to get their damage lack decent mids. This makes them more likely to eat D2 krushing blows than the characters that don't need to rely on throws. After all, no one is going to be neutral-ducking Kabal, Geras, Cassie, or any other character with a fast mid that leads to 25%+.

Right now throws are so strong in this game, I almost think they should cost an offensive meter. That's pretty extreme and I won't blame you if you disagree, but something needs to be done because the current throw meta is not a fun or satisfying mechanic, and is really hurting an otherwise fun game.

I know 100% what direction the throw is coming? I must be a god or something. the problem is releasing block to do anything

 

[Sanjo]

Im all for shitting on this game but throws are fine. The only changes that need to be done is to either widen the throw break window or let you break while holding block. The fact that i have to let go of block in order to throw break is absurd.

Something needs to be done about the 5050 kb throw. That shit stupid youre already getting thrown for decent dmg but they buttfuck you guessing wrong. Dont know what would be the fix but if it were up to me i would just remove that shit from the game altogether.

But idk NRS thrives on clunky mechanics and skewed risk reward.

I'm not sure but I think that if you could break the throw while blocking you could potentially have a block/tech OS which would IMO break the game's balance. The current top tier and characters woth build-in 50/50 would be even more dominant, pushing the current "not top tier" into trash tier.

 

[DrFolmer]

Throws are a universal mechanic that somehow ended up being extremely polarizing in how efficient they are. It's odd how already mixup heavy characters also get loopable throws yet people who genuinely need throws as a central part of their gameplan have throws that essentially give up their pressure more or less end their turn. I know it's not a thing for all characters, but I just feel like mixup characters who already get crazy oki shouldnt have throws that resets the oki situation.

I really don't like these loopable throws. Throws should universally create space between the fighters.

 

[Sanjo]

Throws are a universal mechanic that somehow ended up being extremely polarizing in how efficient they are. It's odd how already mixup heavy characters also get loopable throws yet people who genuinely need throws as a central part of their gameplan have throws that essentially give up their pressure more or less end their turn. I know it's not a thing for all characters, but I just feel like mixup characters who already get crazy oki shouldnt have throws that resets the oki situation.

I really don't like these loopable throws.TThrows should universally create space between the fighters.

That's a fine request. Indeed, throw loops, or at last mid-screen, should not exist. After a succesful throw, we should be back to neutral.

 

[GLoRToR]

Why would being able to tech while blocking be a good idea?

Why not?

 

[TakeAChance]

A mid hitting someone doing a d1/d3 shouldn't be surprising at all.

Also that is not "crushing". Crushing specifically means to make another move whiff in order to hit. This is just getting counter hit

A 10f mid, throw countering a 7f poke is in fact quite infuriating. Op originally stated this as an online issue, and I concur that it is. I don't think it's an issue offline due to no delay.

But from a player standpoint it's really silly to see the animation of a throw which involves a player to be standing up crushing something like a d4. Your opponent d1'd you and you blocked. They are negative. You try to counter poke and your d1 whiffs (let's say against scorpion or geras who have long range d1s) if you pressed a d1 there reading that throw, you die. If you hold block anticipating another d1 you get thrown. If you jump you get d1'd. Etc.) Watch Scorpion teleport and cancel. By the time you realize he canceled and tried to interrupt him, he can just hit throw, which they do, all the time, and get away with murder.

It just created this really silly mind game that shouldn't exist. Perhaps a solution is just to slightly reduce throw ranges so they aren't near as long as some of the more notorious ones.

Btw side note - I always looked and understood the term crushing to mean a move that literally beats an option by stuffing it/going over it like you said. If in using the term incorrectly Ill hold that.

***Late Edit- I also don't think we should get confused on this. I don't think anyone should be arguing the validity of throws. This game NEEDS throws. I just don't like the sizes of their hurtboxes and the ability for them to counter low profiling moves/uppercuts.

 

[xKMMx]

I think throws eating buttons is absurd.

For example, last night on 2 occasions in one match, I knew the opponent was going to throw, so I neutral ducked and pressed d2... and still got thrown?! Wtf? First time I thought it was a fluke, but then it happened again!

I also get infuriated when a throw eats my d1. It just makes no damn sense.

Other than the 50/50 techs, those are my complaints.

YUP!!! last night I played an online Scorpion who's ENTIRE gameplan was to tele cancel into grab or tele into d3 mashing. After I realized this I did the LOGICAL thing. I waited for the tele cancel and tried to poke him out of his throw.... and guess what??? I still got grabbed like 3/4 of the time.

Dude won the first match and as per the usual for this kind of player ...... tbagged relentlessly

Then I decided to start teching the throws and as @karaokelove stated in his OP the freakin mechanic is so broken that only a few of my techs even worked.

In the end I won and had the most rewarding tbag revenge ever .. but still this needs to be fixed

 

[JTC]

I'm not sure but I think that if you could break the throw while blocking you could potentially have a block/tech OS which would IMO break the game's balance. The current top tier and characters woth build-in 50/50 would be even more dominant, pushing the current "not top tier" into trash tier.

I dont see how this a problem. OS would be something that guarantees the throw break while blocking. You still need to guess the 50/50. Every single fighting game out there lets you be on your guard and be able to attempt a throw break. Heck, Virtua fighter has GTE or ETE where you can buffer your inputs in order to throw escape and at the same time evade/guard.

This whole letting go of block to throw break is jus an added layer of nuisance and clunkyness.

 

[OnlineSkunk]

Although I wouldn't mind it I think throws need to stay 50/50s because most character would need a new design and I don't want Cetrion to be Elder God tier and Dragon winning every tournament, however, I think krushing blows should do less damage and its requirements to trigger on a punish universally. That way you have the option for some unbreakable damage or a full combo punish depending on the situation. Also throws eating normals needs to be fixed and we good. I think this are realistic changes and won't affect tiers as much.

 

[L0B0T0MIZ3R]

Since we're talking about throws, can we address Liu's throw animation making him launch forward and then back to where he was originally standing? Even when you duck his throw to D2 punish his hurtbox retreats him back to his original position and makes D2'ing his throws nearly impossible, it's actually just dumb. Obviously the answer is to duck and then punish with a forward advancing move, but why is this a thing in the first place lol.

 

[xKMMx]

Since we're talking about throws, can we address Liu's throw animation making him launch forward and then back to where he was originally standing? Even when you duck his throw to D2 punish his hurtbox retreats him back to his original position and makes D2'ing his throws nearly impossible, it's actually just dumb. Obviously the answer is to duck and then punish with a forward advancing move, but why is this a thing in the first place lol.

THing about that is his throw animation is ending so it would make sense that his weight shifts back to his neutral stance. I think you gotta just time your D2 better.

Believe me I feel your pain on this cause Jacqui is my main and her D2 range is pitiful.

 

[Darth Mao]

I think throws eating buttons is absurd.

For example, last night on 2 occasions in one match, I knew the opponent was going to throw, so I neutral ducked and pressed d2... and still got thrown?! Wtf? First time I thought it was a fluke, but then it happened again!

I also get infuriated when a throw eats my d1. It just makes no damn sense.

Other than the 50/50 techs, those are my complaints.

This 100%
Its total bullshit and happens to me 101% of the time