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Throws

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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I don't like the idea of balancing a game around online play, but online throws in this game are straight bullshit. Combined with regenerating Fatal Blows, they are the big thing killing my hype for this game. You'll know 100% a throw is coming. You'll know 100% which direction the opponent will throw you. But thanks to online delay, there is still maybe a 25% chance your tech actually registers.

My solution would be to increase the size of the tech window by the amount of online delay you're experiencing at the time of the throw. Ideally, this would create a standard tech window regardless of lag and would not affect offline play. If you've got 80ms of delay, you have an extra 80ms to tech the throw. Probably easier said than done, though.

Throws shouldn't do 14% fucking damage. A throw should be a tool to break through an overly-defensive player's constant blocking. It should not be a primary source of offensive damage. A throw should not do more damage than an entire uncancelable string, most of which do around 12%. Characters that rely on regular throws to get their damage are just poorly designed and in great need of an overhaul. Throws should do maybe 10%. That's enough damage to make the opponent not want to eat them, but not enough damage that a player would opt to throw rather than use their better offensive tools. Right now throws aren't being used specifically to break heavy defense, they're being used to turn every fucking character into Zangief.

The last big issue is that this throw meta significantly benefits the best characters that have strong mids. A lot of the poorly-designed characters that rely on throws to get their damage lack decent mids. This makes them more likely to eat D2 krushing blows than the characters that don't need to rely on throws. After all, no one is going to be neutral-ducking Kabal, Geras, Cassie, or any other character with a fast mid that leads to 25%+.

Right now throws are so strong in this game, I almost think they should cost an offensive meter. That's pretty extreme and I won't blame you if you disagree, but something needs to be done because the current throw meta is not a fun or satisfying mechanic, and is really hurting an otherwise fun game.
 
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thlityoursloat

kick kick
Bin throw crushing blows, either that or just change their requirements so they don't depend on your opponent teching the wrong direction.
Just what the fuck is that kinda shit? Why is there a mechanic that punishes players that actively try to tech and rewards those that don't know how to it? I don't get it at all. Against low tiers with crappy mids it's actually much more viable to just mash d2. A mechanic that encourages mashing.. spectacular.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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If they gonna touch how throws are working in this game, they gonna kill a loooooot of character.
Right, which is why I said those characters are in need of an overhaul. If a character relies on a universal mechanic to get their damage, they are a poorly designed character destined to be low tier. After all, the mechanic is universal, so even the characters with better tools can still use it if they want, making the low-tier character utterly redundant.
 

Sazbak

Noob
And then half the playerbase drops because not everybody likes back to block.
I doubt that's the reason people play the game. MK is still MK with its familar characters and gore but at least they don't have to either

  1. Make a game based around only oh-low mixes and without neutral
  2. Make a game based around hit/throw mixes for lot of the characters.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
Back to block for mk is a hell no

As for throws my only issue is why the fuck is it a 50/50 PLUS a crushing blow?

They shouldve made throws combo-able again and if someone breaks out but you catch them with throw then you get a kb

Oh yea and damage for a tech makes NO sense
 

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
agreed .... throws are boring and annoying to deal with in this game .... make them :

  • not 50/50
  • increase the window of reaction by more frames
  • diminish the damage done by them
this could kill them in the game ? fuck yeah, throws are supposed to be second class moves and secondary strategy to rely with .... combos and footsies are way more interesting and cool to priorize over throws that are somehow, super powered by game design decision .... and when using throws end being a component of the main meta, you know you have a big trouble to deal with, hehe :p
 
Right, which is why I said those characters are in need of an overhaul. If a character relies on a universal mechanic to get their damage, they are a poorly designed character destined to be low tier. After all, the mechanic is universal, so even the characters with better tools can still use it if they want, making the low-tier character utterly redundant.
overhaul is a bad term for a game, i don't know, it smells like failure. But, i think that a lot of character needs it. I just don't believe that a game like this can pretend to exist without balance patches for like 4 months
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
I think throws eating buttons is absurd.

For example, last night on 2 occasions in one match, I knew the opponent was going to throw, so I neutral ducked and pressed d2... and still got thrown?! Wtf? First time I thought it was a fluke, but then it happened again!

I also get infuriated when a throw eats my d1. It just makes no damn sense.

Other than the 50/50 techs, those are my complaints.
 

Vhozite

Waiting on SF6
If we are nerfing throws to 100 damage or lower i definitely still want them to be able to KB.

However, I'm really not in favor of nerfing throws, especially with only a few characters having a legit High/Low game. Instead of actively trying to escape the game becomes another "lol take the throw" meme like SFV. In a game where you can duck at point blank to blow up an obvious throw for a full combo, a throw nerf seems unecessary. I've always been a fan of strong block beaters.

All of that said, throws eating buttons is total horseshit. I can take or leave teched throws still doing damage.
 
the thrown damage should be at max 12%, and increase windtow time to tech especially online , i love the idea 80 ms , you get plus 80 ms
to tech, and no krushing blows for throws too.
 

Metin

Ermac & Smoke Main
As a Frost player i have to say that her throws are really annoying to your opponents cos if you escape failed the last throw that means her next throw (both) now will be a krushing blow. 310 damage!!! Also her throw hitboxes are insane. They can catch you even while you performing d4.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
I think throws eating buttons is absurd.

For example, last night on 2 occasions in one match, I knew the opponent was going to throw, so I neutral ducked and pressed d2... and still got thrown?! Wtf? First time I thought it was a fluke, but then it happened again!

I also get infuriated when a throw eats my d1. It just makes no damn sense.

Other than the 50/50 techs, those are my complaints.
You did the D2 too soon.

Not saying I agree with it eating the button, but the throw animation is long af. You have to wait a bit before going with the punish.
 
Throws aren't "eating buttons". Throws aren't real highs and are better understood as "mids that can be neutral ducked"

If you're getting thrown out of your d1 then maybe don't press d1 when your -4? I can't reconcile how much this community complains about the poke system but then freaks out when they get tossed for trying to mash d1 repeatedly on block.

It's good the entire cast has access to a universal option to beat poke mashing. I already get jack shit off Kotals +6 d3. The fact that I can still throw someone whose smashing their face against the d1 button is a good thing.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
It's a strike/throw meta. The whining in this thread is a bit ridiculous. The entire focus of the game is playing neutral and footsies... when you win the neutral and it's your turn you are trying to mix your opponent in order to open them up. Do you do a full string, stagger, shimmy, throw? All things you have to think about on the defense.

And if you make the correct read that a throw is coming... why wait for the tech? Neutral duck for full combo or D2 kb.

I'd be down for making throws 12% like they've always been, but that's about it.

Some of y'all in here need to level up tbh.
 

Tanya-Fan-28

TanyaShouldBeInMK11
Its only been the throws that have tilted me the past few months gameplay wise. Even When I tech the right way, I still get thrown.
"Throws Encouraged"-Loading screen tip
Idk if that sounds like nrs instegating shit because they know they're OP. Or maybe I just need to take my tinfoil hat off, but players wouldn't have to be encouraged if they were that important so.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Throws aren't "eating buttons". Throws aren't real highs and are better understood as "mids that can be neutral ducked"

If you're getting thrown out of your d1 then maybe don't press d1 when your -4? I can't reconcile how much this community complains about the poke system but then freaks out when they get tossed for trying to mash d1 repeatedly on block.

It's good the entire cast has access to a universal option to beat poke mashing. I already get jack shit off Kotals +6 d3. The fact that I can still throw someone whose smashing their face against the d1 button is a good thing.
Doesn’t it reward mashing, though? You get your poke blocked and just go into a throw with your negative frames. Opponent who is plus after blocking your poke tries to counter poke, but instead gets thrown. Depending on the frames, the throw will beat anything you do except jumping, neutral crouching, or using certain specials. And that’s with the thrower being negative...