MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[Owerbart]

Nut Punch is still good because it negates wake up options of your opponent. It's good to pepper it in here and there for mind games and so you don't become too predictable. Johnny has to take risks and make reads. Is he going to turtle? Throw him. Is he going to poke or D2? Back dash and punish. I tend to always nut punch in the corner because I don't want them rolling out. Sometimes they jump so D1 is convertible into a combo.

It's good. Not great, but good and has it's time and place.

The +6 definitely have use. F4 becomes an 8 frame attack. I've stuffed so many fucking pokes doing 124 followed by F4. Sometimes you go for the yolo F4~NP, or just F44 to be safe. Again, it's reads. If they're pokey, Hesitate and then B3. Defensive? Dash and throw or stagger F3s. There's many other options. Once they respect 124, you can do 12~throw, 12~poke, 12, pause, D4~NP.


Sure, there's a ton of risk involved in all of this, but that's just how you have to play Johnny. He's absolutely not a flow chart character in his current state. You have to keep them guessing and keep up the momentum. I've almost hit God in KL just using Cage, and it hasnt been because I've played safe.

F3 doesn't need to be a mid. It wouldnt actually change anything. F2 on the other hand....

good luck with that 8f mid on that distance, anyone expecting the f4 is just gonna crossjump you.

That makes no sense! How come he gets to have meterless launcher and guaranteed pressure after restand while Johnny is getting mashed out of everything?

despite what people might tell you, this is the classic nrs game with atrocious balance. Liu's restand is actually better than cage since even if its only +3 liuhas better options to follow up due to having usable mids. Same way i would argue that cassie's nutkick is also better. Until johnny's f2 or f3 aren't changed to be mid, and the nutpunch actually gets serious plusframes on hit, johnny won't get past the bottom tier.

 

[Owerbart]

I'm almost scared to ask this..

How are you all finding the Shang MU? What's working for you, what's particularly troublesome, etc etc? Just curious. I've been stuck offline almost since Shang dropped due to the ever evolving idiocy of my job, bulldozers that destroy cable infrastructure on accident THREE TIMES, and pesky pesky life in general.. but I'm about to dive back in with my main training partner, and he plays Shang exclusively.. so I have thousands of Shang rounds ahead of me, and I'd like to start this shitshow off with some knowledge.

for me it falls in the category of "if only we had acceptable mids". The zoning isnt that hard to get past and if you actually get the lifelead you can zone since this has to be the best cage projectile in history. But unfortunately, due to lacking mids, getting pressure is hard (also the fucking whiffing issues)

 

[DeftMonk]

good luck with that 8f mid on that distance, anyone expecting the f4 is just gonna crossjump you.




despite what people might tell you, this is the classic nrs game with atrocious balance. Liu's restand is actually better than cage since even if its only +3 liuhas better options to follow up due to having usable mids. Same way i would argue that cassie's nutkick is also better. Until johnny's f2 or f3 aren't changed to be mid, and the nutpunch actually gets serious plusframes on hit, johnny won't get past the bottom tier.

The point ur making about the options after liu’s restand is right on. Kinda sad really... would be super nice if they changed johnnys nut punch at least in the corner to be like + 8 or some shit.

 

[Name v.5.0]

good luck with that 8f mid on that distance, anyone expecting the f4 is just gonna crossjump you.




despite what people might tell you, this is the classic nrs game with atrocious balance. Liu's restand is actually better than cage since even if its only +3 liuhas better options to follow up due to having usable mids. Same way i would argue that cassie's nutkick is also better. Until johnny's f2 or f3 aren't changed to be mid, and the nutpunch actually gets serious plusframes on hit, johnny won't get past the bottom tier.

Opponents literally can’t jump after 124 on block if Cage follows up with F4. It catches forward, backward, and neutral jumps. Soooo what are you talking about?

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Still playing this character like a dumb ass but 1 thing I noticed play other characters is trying to punish with cage is alot more difficult unless their moves end up in your nose.
S1 and S2 have crap range, f3 f4 are so slow you can poke or grab through them and F2 why is that 11 frames should be like 9 with no mixups attached.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Opponents literally can’t jump after 124 on block if Cage follows up with F4. It catches forward, backward, and neutral jumps. Soooo what are you talking about?

Thats correct if your frame perfect, why even bother with that all d1s stop that gimmick in its track.
Just like d4 into f3 is a gimmick, all pokes beat that

 

[dennycascade]

Thats correct if your frame perfect, why even bother with that all d1s stop that gimmick in its track.
Just like d4 into f3 is a gimmick, all pokes beat that

Stop downplaying a gapless +6 string lol. You can condition them not to jump and then when they start mashing you have the option to full combo them using b3. And d4 jails into f3 on hit wym

 

[Name v.5.0]

Thats correct if your frame perfect, why even bother with that all d1s stop that gimmick in its track.
Just like d4 into f3 is a gimmick, all pokes beat that

Why bother with anything? Why even play as JC? Half the people in this thread do nothing but tell you how nothing Cage does works, like that somehow helps. Make a fucking read, take a chance and see how it goes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. We're talking about a low tier character that has problems so you have to expect a level of danger to get damage, and you're going to take losses. Your post is almost completely pointless, not to mention factually inaccurate. Make a contribution or stop playing as JC. Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Stop downplaying a gapless +6 string lol. You can condition them not to jump and then when they start mashing you have the option to full combo them using b3. And d4 jails into f3 on hit wym

Not downplaying 123 or 34 u3 but saying something is a definite is false info, b3 can also be mashed out of wtf its even slower.
Sorry for my misinfo in kombat league where pings say 140 then join the match its 200+ d4 does not jail into f3

 

[M.D.]

LoL people who don't play cage actually thinking 124 actually HITS and doesn't whiff the 1 on 20 characters out of 24 on block.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Why bother with anything? Why even play as JC? Half the people in this thread do nothing but tell you how nothing Cage does works, like that somehow helps. Make a fucking read, take a chance and see how it goes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. We're talking about a low tier character that has problems so you have to expect a level of danger to get damage, and you're going to take losses. Your post is almost completely pointless, not to mention factually inaccurate. Make a contribution or stop playing as JC. Jesus fucking Christ.

Why play johnny wtf has been my favorite character for almost 25 years.
The issue im having is saying johnny has options that never fail is wrong info that gets spread, not innacurrate im speaking from someone that plays a shit ton of wifi warriors knowing frame perfect moves dont always work. Make reads wow I learn something everyday.

As for your make a contribution or stop playing johnny uh no sorry for posting on a public forum my bad didnt realize this place is the end all be all for playing the actual game.

But I digress johnny is perfect and we learn new combos and tech everyday as the meta evolves #Nerf johnny

 

[Deleted member 35141]

LoL people who don't play cage actually thinking 124 actually HITS and doesn't whiff the 1 on 20 characters out of 24 on block.

lets not forget kombat only plays johnny and beats pros never switching to other characters that have 5KBs or 40% Combos with dot

 

[Name v.5.0]

Why play johnny wtf has been my favorite character for almost 25 years.
The issue im having is saying johnny has options that never fail is wrong info that gets spread, not innacurrate im speaking from someone that plays a shit ton of wifi warriors knowing frame perfect moves dont always work. Make reads wow I learn something everyday.

As for your make a contribution or stop playing johnny uh no sorry for posting on a public forum my bad didnt realize this place is the end all be all for playing the actual game.

But I digress johnny is perfect and we learn new combos and tech everyday as the meta evolves #Nerf johnny

Who said anything about options that never fail? Are we still talking about F4 after a blocked 124? You don't need to be frame perfect. I just tested this yesterday and hit the F4 on all jump types over and over and over. If it was frame perfect, I would have failed at least once. If you're talking about F4 being poked, well yes...of course it can be poked. Never said it couldn't. If your opponent doesn't go for the poke right away, you can stuff it.

Hey, you're free to come in here and fill the discussion with negativity and bitching all you want. Free country. Just know that when I, and basically everyone else on this forum talks about how the game plays, we aren't going to preface it with "Only works if you have less than 100 ping and your opponent is wired."

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Who said anything about options that never fail? Are we still talking about F4 after a blocked 124? You don't need to be frame perfect. I just tested this yesterday and hit the F4 on all jump types over and over and over. If it was frame perfect, I would have failed at least once. If you're talking about F4 being poked, well yes...of course it can be poked. Never said it couldn't. If your opponent doesn't go for the poke right away, you can stuff it.

Hey, you're free to come in here and fill the discussion with negativity and bitching all you want. Free country. Just know that when I, and basically everyone else on this forum talks about how the game plays, we aren't going to preface it with "Only works if you have less than 100 ping and your opponent is wired."

Ok thanks no your right just pissed after a few dumb losses, nothing but positive here on woohoo

 

[DeftMonk]

Just ended a match with f4 fatal blow cancel f344 ex camera kb f344 glasses kb felt so good. Love me some cage lol.

 

[Magnifisense313]

Hi everyone I have been lurking these boards for a long time and I know this is probably wrong but I've been playing cage since nearly launch if anyone can help me and tell me wat i can do better I'm sick of losing all the time my name (Magnifisense Inc) on youTube's I don't no if I can post a link but any feedback would be nice if not that's fine too thanks either way

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Hi everyone I have been lurking these boards for a long time and I know this is probably wrong but I've been playing cage since nearly launch if anyone can help me and tell me wat i can do better I'm sick of losing all the time my name (Magnifisense Inc) on youTube's I don't no if I can post a link but any feedback would be nice if not that's fine too thanks either way

By all means, post your matches so that we can review your gameplay more accurately. What would you say you struggle with the most?

I just watched a video of yours, but don't quite have the time to offer amazingly in depth feedback, but these are a couple of things that sprung to my mind immediately:

• You could definitely use Brass Knuckles and Caged Rage more. The vid I watched showed you fighting a Scorp and a Shao, so there shouldn't be any whiffing issues against them. Double chip damage and a pseudo unblockable are pretty good on their own, but combine Knuckles with a Lvl 3 CR, and you can get a block string that deals around 30% for 2 bars... all while they're blocking.
• F3 staggers are a very powerful thing. You go into F344 way too often when you can also use F3 into throw, or even F3 into walk back to bait out a whiff punish. It may sound like it shouldn't work, but trust me, it's very effective as long as you don't get too predictable.
• Anti airs could use some work. You started using B2 against the Shao, but I would definitely suggest trying to use S1 more. It's pretty damn effective against all but the best jump ins, and can be converted into an easy 20%.
• Maybe it was the damn near 200ms ping in the Shao match, but it looks like you could tighten up the gap in between your F3 after your D4s. D4 jails into F3 if you're fast enough, so the opponent shouldn't be able to press anything afterwards without getting kicked in the face. That Shao was still able to neutral duck after a D4, which he shouldn't be able to do if you time it properly.
• Whenever you fight Searing Rage Scorpion, you can punish a point blank Death Spin with F3 into full combo.
• Be careful about going into F3 after blocked Force Balls. You're plus, but it doesn't jail, so you're still free to neutral crouch and D2s for days.
• This last one is personal preference, but I don't bother with Nut Punch in the midscreen. I typically try to get my opponent to the corner ASAP by ending combos in Shadow Kick. It also gives me space to activate Brass Knuckles more safely if I want. In the corner, the restand is more useful since it keeps them from rolling out.

These were all of the things that sprang to mind immediately while watching that vid. If there's anything more specific you'd like to know, by all means, ask away.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Hi everyone I have been lurking these boards for a long time and I know this is probably wrong but I've been playing cage since nearly launch if anyone can help me and tell me wat i can do better I'm sick of losing all the time my name (Magnifisense Inc) on youTube's I don't no if I can post a link but any feedback would be nice if not that's fine too thanks either way

If you dont mind me asking, what rank are you in KL?

The first thing I noticed was your combos. You're not getting optimal damage.

Optimal midscreen's are:
For restand: starter~NP(A), microdash B2, microdash F4~np. (note: good players will roll out at the right time and fuck you up if you go for restands.)
For full damage: starter~NP(A), dash, 121~shadow kick.

Optimal Corner is:
Starter~NP(A), 2,2,2,2,2, 121~ender (You can sneak a 6th 2 in there if you're godlike. Hard online)


The 2nd thing I noticed was lack of punishment. You had a bunch of opportunities to do better punishes, but poked, or did nothing instead. Mixed with your combos, you're losing a ton of damage.


3rd thing would be predictability. I didn't see much for F3 staggers, or use of plus frames into back walks/dashes. You want to draw out whiffs when you can. Other Cage players may say different....but I'd also like to see a little more use of Caged Rage and Mime Time.

 

[FoughtDragon01]

If you dont mind me asking, what rank are you in KL?

The first thing I noticed was your combos. You're not getting optimal damage.

Optimal midscreen's are:
For restand: starter~NP(A), microdash B2, microdash F4~np. (note: good players will roll out at the right time and fuck you up if you go for restands.)
For full damage: starter~NP(A), dash, 121~shadow kick.

Optimal Corner is:
Starter~NP(A), 2,2,2,2,2, 121~ender (You can sneak a 6th 2 in there if you're godlike. Hard online)


The 2nd thing I noticed was lack of punishment. You had a bunch of opportunities to do better punishes, but poked, or did nothing instead. Mixed with your combos, you're losing a ton of damage.


3rd thing would be predictability. I didn't see much for F3 staggers, or use of plus frames into back walks/dashes. You want to draw out whiffs when you can. Other Cage players may say different....but I'd also like to see a little more use of Caged Rage and Mime Time.

How are you using Mime Time to get value in a typical match? It's such an awkward parry for me to use that I really only save it to punish wakeups, otherwise it just feels like I'm holding up a 'Hit me' sign.

 

[Name v.5.0]

How are you using Mime Time to get value in a typical match? It's such an awkward parry for me to use that I really only save it to punish wakeups, otherwise it just feels like I'm holding up a 'Hit me' sign.

And sometimes you will get hit.

Like you, I also use it when I read wakeups.

I use it for stagger heavy characters. People who play characters like Kung Lao, Scorpion, Liu Kang, etc. love to fucking stagger. So you can take the first round and watch their patterns. Scorpion does F3, pauses, F3 again....even if it's frame perfect you can slip in a Mime Time after the first F3 and take 28% of their life. My favorite is Liu Kang though. He eats that shit all day. You can even Mime Time in gap between F43 and U3. Hard read though.

I also use it if I see a lot of D1 counter poking. Do a string, end with Mime Time, they go to poke and eat shit. Characters with fast mids like Kang and Jacqui will sometimes counter poke with their fast mids. You'll catch that shit too.

Lastly, sometimes when I'm just within the range of their best mid, I toss it out. Dangerous, I know, but it does work. This one I barely use.

I really wish Mime Time was like 6 frames. Then Johnny could hit a lot of the gaps in this game. Oh well...

 

[Magnifisense313]

Thanks for the feedback I want to quote the two that said stuff but I don't think I can do both but I am I think grandmaster the rank before the next tier set but I know np into 121 shadow kick is better but I drop it a lot like the 121 hits but the shadow kick flies under them I think I need to work on the timing and with the chain whip thing from scorpion I've tried different punishes even point blank and they always have time to block shadow kick is the only thing I can reliably punish with

 

[Magnifisense313]

Ok sorry for posting twice but if I was to stagger f3 into grab for the mix what else could I do once I establish this like f3 into f344 or could I get maybe f3 stagger? Into another f3 I'm sorry I'm scrubby I want to be good and I try but I dunno and I use b2 for anti airs more often but I usually don't try s1 probably cause I'm more scared of eating the jump in

 

[thlityoursloat]

And sometimes you will get hit.

Like you, I also use it when I read wakeups.

I use it for stagger heavy characters. People who play characters like Kung Lao, Scorpion, Liu Kang, etc. love to fucking stagger. So you can take the first round and watch their patterns. Scorpion does F3, pauses, F3 again....even if it's frame perfect you can slip in a Mime Time after the first F3 and take 28% of their life. My favorite is Liu Kang though. He eats that shit all day. You can even Mime Time in gap between F43 and U3. Hard read though.

I also use it if I see a lot of D1 counter poking. Do a string, end with Mime Time, they go to poke and eat shit. Characters with fast mids like Kang and Jacqui will sometimes counter poke with their fast mids. You'll catch that shit too.

Lastly, sometimes when I'm just within the range of their best mid, I toss it out. Dangerous, I know, but it does work. This one I barely use.

I really wish Mime Time was like 6 frames. Then Johnny could hit a lot of the gaps in this game. Oh well...

It's honestly better just flawless blocking gaps. Way less risky than throwing out this goofy ass parry.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Ok sorry for posting twice but if I was to stagger f3 into grab for the mix what else could I do once I establish this like f3 into f344 or could I get maybe f3 stagger? Into another f3 I'm sorry I'm scrubby I want to be good and I try but I dunno and I use b2 for anti airs more often but I usually don't try s1 probably cause I'm more scared of eating the jump in

F3 staggering is like signaling to them that you're going to do this high attack over and over and you're stupid and asking to be punished hard. Let's put their responses into their own containers:

They neutral duck looking to D2 you or punish:

• Engage with F4 or B3 instead and catch them
• You may be able to do F3, and if they block thinking they'll D2 you on the next stagger, you can pause then F4 or B3. Reads are tough.

They block and poke after F3:

• The 44 in F344 will hit them.
• You can do F3~Mime Time if they're consistent D1 pokers (e.g. Geras)
• You can do F3, back dash, followed by B3 or F4 to catch their whiffed poke.

Highly defensive players:

• Amped forceballs if they're playing a character that actually gets hit on block
• Backdash followed by B3 to catch a poke, or a forceball if they are back dashers.
• F3, F3,
• F3, Throw
• F3, 124. Gets you +6, you can follow this up with F4, F3, force ball, or a dash up throw.
• F3~Caged Rage. Might get poked.
• F344, back dash, B3~combo. This one catches sooooooooo many people. I get a lot of mileage off it.
• F344~Caged Rage. You may get poked.
• F344~Mime Time. Dangerous, but some people just cant help but attack. If they're consistent low pokers, don't do this.

This is what I can think of right now. There's probably more. The point is really to keep them guessing and not be predictable while making reads off of their responses. It's not easy at all and you're going to make bad reads. That's Cage though...adapt or die.

 

[Name v.5.0]

It's honestly better just flawless blocking gaps. Way less risky than throwing out this goofy ass parry.

I fail at it so often online though. When I do get it, my brain is like: "YOU DID IT DUDE!" and then I fuck up the punish. Big weakness in my game.