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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

Wigy

There it is...
What are ppls thoughts on ending w nutpunch? Ive been doing it at rhe cost of damage (new cage player) but im leaning toward it not being a good idea. Nutpunch being only +5 means nothing is guaranteed aside from a poke. Once people respect the poke, it DOES open up f3, but im not sure its worth it.
D4 guarantees all your pressure after.

D1 np is good. Can catch people even respecting the d1 or just blow up Mashers.

If you have fatal blow you can use it and instantly cancel to give yourself armour then go into f344 or f4.

Cross over or neutral jump 2 is good.

I have made a thread which shows how to get guaranteed pressure after with a hitbox bug at the cost of a bar.

If you go into the lab and try get a combo where you hit np at Max range, this spaces you a little back and allows you to move back and whiff punish their poke mash after.

Worst comes to worst. Block the poke and reversal grab. People mashing are rarely ready to go into anything after so a reversal grab is great as a counter to mashing
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
What are ppls thoughts on ending w nutpunch? Ive been doing it at rhe cost of damage (new cage player) but im leaning toward it not being a good idea. Nutpunch being only +5 means nothing is guaranteed aside from a poke. Once people respect the poke, it DOES open up f3, but im not sure its worth it.
It's kinda one of his defining features even though it doesn't guarantee much. However, it's a lot more useful in the corner as they are even more limited in options there. It's all about the mindgames. Once you condition them to block you can go for 124 or shimmy. Squeeze in a little throw mixup and it's good to go
 

Owerbart

I miss you
i stopped using nutpunch because being only +5 with no good mid is not worth it. Same way all the +6 strings and ex fireballs arent frametraps at all. They are useless because there's no good mid to keep tjem in check. There's not a single reason for any opp not to block low/wait ducking vs johnny. in fact i think he loses a lot of matchups mostly because other characters have acceptable mids.

for christ sake just make f3 a mid please
 
i stopped using nutpunch because being only +5 with no good mid is not worth it. Same way all the +6 strings and ex fireballs arent frametraps at all. They are useless because there's no good mid to keep tjem in check. There's not a single reason for any opp not to block low/wait ducking vs johnny. in fact i think he loses a lot of matchups mostly because other characters have acceptable mids.

for christ sake just make f3 a mid please
Making f3 a mid wouldn’t change cages pressure from being gimmicky, giving him faster buttons would.

I would much rather have a faster b3 than a mid f3.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
i stopped using nutpunch because being only +5 with no good mid is not worth it. Same way all the +6 strings and ex fireballs arent frametraps at all. They are useless because there's no good mid to keep tjem in check. There's not a single reason for any opp not to block low/wait ducking vs johnny. in fact i think he loses a lot of matchups mostly because other characters have acceptable mids.

for christ sake just make f3 a mid please
Nut Punch is still good because it negates wake up options of your opponent. It's good to pepper it in here and there for mind games and so you don't become too predictable. Johnny has to take risks and make reads. Is he going to turtle? Throw him. Is he going to poke or D2? Back dash and punish. I tend to always nut punch in the corner because I don't want them rolling out. Sometimes they jump so D1 is convertible into a combo.

It's good. Not great, but good and has it's time and place.

The +6 definitely have use. F4 becomes an 8 frame attack. I've stuffed so many fucking pokes doing 124 followed by F4. Sometimes you go for the yolo F4~NP, or just F44 to be safe. Again, it's reads. If they're pokey, Hesitate and then B3. Defensive? Dash and throw or stagger F3s. There's many other options. Once they respect 124, you can do 12~throw, 12~poke, 12, pause, D4~NP.


Sure, there's a ton of risk involved in all of this, but that's just how you have to play Johnny. He's absolutely not a flow chart character in his current state. You have to keep them guessing and keep up the momentum. I've almost hit God in KL just using Cage, and it hasnt been because I've played safe.

F3 doesn't need to be a mid. It wouldnt actually change anything. F2 on the other hand....
 

LarSanity

My sword thanks you
I don't know of this is common knowledge but noticed f344 the last hit completely misses on erron black.

I've been playing KL lately there's nothing like playing wifi scorpion where the first match all your timing is great then the next 2 matches specials and strings don't come out properly then get tbagged.
 

Snibbor

Kapping Knees
Premium Supporter
Isn't Liu's bicycle kick a restand too? How plus is it on hit?
Yes, Bicycle kick restands if not AMP’d, and I believe it is +3. However, Liu Kang has a couple of 9f mids as well, so he has an easier time getting pressure off it than Johnny does.
 

Edlaw

Noob
Yes, Bicycle kick restands if not AMP’d, and I believe it is +3. However, Liu Kang has a couple of 9f mids as well, so he has an easier time getting pressure off it than Johnny does.
That makes no sense! How come he gets to have meterless launcher and guaranteed pressure after restand while Johnny is getting mashed out of everything?
 

LarSanity

My sword thanks you
Sonya has a restand too remember?
Yea I'm surprised we don't see it more as the pro players seem to finish the string, they rather go for the extra 2% than restand that should tell us something.

On a side note I was just grabbed through a max range f4 and I find that rediculous.
 

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
Premium Supporter
Just started using Johnny again for Kombat League. The man may have his issues, but dammit if he isn't fun to use. Also helps that since he's not a top-tier character, people don't seem to know the matchup so I've been able to have some decent success with him.
 

Tundra81

This is re-goddamned-diculous
Premium Supporter
Someone else said this previously, can't remember who but the statement was "when he works, he works." Such a true statement. Not sure if there is another character in the cast that is literally just a few (fairly) minor tweaks away from a significant tier jump.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
That makes no sense! How come he gets to have meterless launcher and guaranteed pressure after restand while Johnny is getting mashed out of everything?
Jjohnny's restand is better than lius for sure (more plus and if I recall better positioning outside of corner). Johnny has plenty of tools bro don't down play.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
I’d rather fight a bunch of Scorpions than EB, Sonya, And Cassie though.
Bro no lie I just got the game on pc so I can play when im outside the country played 16 matches on kkombat league yesterday 15 scorpions one rando Shao Kahn. Was like what in the flying....ps4 nowhere near that bad.
 
So is it normal to not achieve kbs in practice mode even with it set to easy krushing blows? Wth...camera flash even after three misses isn't krushing for some reason but it would previously am I missing something? The second hit of f3,4 isn't even doing it and yes I have reset it just in case. Anyone else have this issue?

Edit: sorry f4,3
 

Wigy

There it is...
So is it normal to not achieve kbs in practice mode even with it set to easy krushing blows? Wth...camera flash even after three misses isn't krushing for some reason but it would previously am I missing something? The second hit of f3,4 isn't even doing it and yes I have reset it just in case. Anyone else have this issue?

Edit: sorry f4,3
Have you got easy KBs set to the right player. It's player 1 or 2 or both.
 
Somebody please explain to me how to amplify the mime counter. Sometimes it works for me, but most of the time it doesn't. I've been landing the crushing blow a lot recently, but I can never get the most out of it. It's like the weirdest fucking move to amplify in the game.
 

Edlaw

Noob
Jjohnny's restand is better than lius for sure (more plus and if I recall better positioning outside of corner). Johnny has plenty of tools bro don't down play.
I think Johnny is the only character in this game that is getting mashed out of his restand. I haven't seen anyone disrespect Cassie and Liu, given that their restands have less frame advantage than Johnny
 

Edlaw

Noob
Somebody please explain to me how to amplify the mime counter. Sometimes it works for me, but most of the time it doesn't. I've been landing the crushing blow a lot recently, but I can never get the most out of it. It's like the weirdest fucking move to amplify in the game.
You mean the BnB? Here you go