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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
How are you using Mime Time to get value in a typical match? It's such an awkward parry for me to use that I really only save it to punish wakeups, otherwise it just feels like I'm holding up a 'Hit me' sign.
And sometimes you will get hit.

Like you, I also use it when I read wakeups.

I use it for stagger heavy characters. People who play characters like Kung Lao, Scorpion, Liu Kang, etc. love to fucking stagger. So you can take the first round and watch their patterns. Scorpion does F3, pauses, F3 again....even if it's frame perfect you can slip in a Mime Time after the first F3 and take 28% of their life. My favorite is Liu Kang though. He eats that shit all day. You can even Mime Time in gap between F43 and U3. Hard read though.

I also use it if I see a lot of D1 counter poking. Do a string, end with Mime Time, they go to poke and eat shit. Characters with fast mids like Kang and Jacqui will sometimes counter poke with their fast mids. You'll catch that shit too.

Lastly, sometimes when I'm just within the range of their best mid, I toss it out. Dangerous, I know, but it does work. This one I barely use.

I really wish Mime Time was like 6 frames. Then Johnny could hit a lot of the gaps in this game. Oh well...
 
Thanks for the feedback I want to quote the two that said stuff but I don't think I can do both but I am I think grandmaster the rank before the next tier set but I know np into 121 shadow kick is better but I drop it a lot like the 121 hits but the shadow kick flies under them I think I need to work on the timing and with the chain whip thing from scorpion I've tried different punishes even point blank and they always have time to block shadow kick is the only thing I can reliably punish with
 
Ok sorry for posting twice but if I was to stagger f3 into grab for the mix what else could I do once I establish this like f3 into f344 or could I get maybe f3 stagger? Into another f3 I'm sorry I'm scrubby I want to be good and I try but I dunno and I use b2 for anti airs more often but I usually don't try s1 probably cause I'm more scared of eating the jump in
 

thlityoursloat

Scarlet peeing
And sometimes you will get hit.

Like you, I also use it when I read wakeups.

I use it for stagger heavy characters. People who play characters like Kung Lao, Scorpion, Liu Kang, etc. love to fucking stagger. So you can take the first round and watch their patterns. Scorpion does F3, pauses, F3 again....even if it's frame perfect you can slip in a Mime Time after the first F3 and take 28% of their life. My favorite is Liu Kang though. He eats that shit all day. You can even Mime Time in gap between F43 and U3. Hard read though.

I also use it if I see a lot of D1 counter poking. Do a string, end with Mime Time, they go to poke and eat shit. Characters with fast mids like Kang and Jacqui will sometimes counter poke with their fast mids. You'll catch that shit too.

Lastly, sometimes when I'm just within the range of their best mid, I toss it out. Dangerous, I know, but it does work. This one I barely use.

I really wish Mime Time was like 6 frames. Then Johnny could hit a lot of the gaps in this game. Oh well...
It's honestly better just flawless blocking gaps. Way less risky than throwing out this goofy ass parry.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Ok sorry for posting twice but if I was to stagger f3 into grab for the mix what else could I do once I establish this like f3 into f344 or could I get maybe f3 stagger? Into another f3 I'm sorry I'm scrubby I want to be good and I try but I dunno and I use b2 for anti airs more often but I usually don't try s1 probably cause I'm more scared of eating the jump in
F3 staggering is like signaling to them that you're going to do this high attack over and over and you're stupid and asking to be punished hard. Let's put their responses into their own containers:

They neutral duck looking to D2 you or punish:
  • Engage with F4 or B3 instead and catch them
  • You may be able to do F3, and if they block thinking they'll D2 you on the next stagger, you can pause then F4 or B3. Reads are tough.
They block and poke after F3:
  • The 44 in F344 will hit them.
  • You can do F3~Mime Time if they're consistent D1 pokers (e.g. Geras)
  • You can do F3, back dash, followed by B3 or F4 to catch their whiffed poke.
Highly defensive players:
  • Amped forceballs if they're playing a character that actually gets hit on block
  • Backdash followed by B3 to catch a poke, or a forceball if they are back dashers.
  • F3, F3,
  • F3, Throw
  • F3, 124. Gets you +6, you can follow this up with F4, F3, force ball, or a dash up throw.
  • F3~Caged Rage. Might get poked.
  • F344, back dash, B3~combo. This one catches sooooooooo many people. I get a lot of mileage off it.
  • F344~Caged Rage. You may get poked.
  • F344~Mime Time. Dangerous, but some people just cant help but attack. If they're consistent low pokers, don't do this.
This is what I can think of right now. There's probably more. The point is really to keep them guessing and not be predictable while making reads off of their responses. It's not easy at all and you're going to make bad reads. That's Cage though...adapt or die.
 

thlityoursloat

Scarlet peeing
I fail at it so often online though. When I do get it, my brain is like: "YOU DID IT DUDE!" and then I fuck up the punish. Big weakness in my game.
It's surprisingly not that hard, I've come across a few players that flawless blocked my Scarlet strings very consistently. It's flawless blocking buttons in the neutral that's really really hard. Try FBing a big leg for example, they're shockingly tricky.
and just up2, a lot of flawless blocks don't even make the string totally unsafe.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
about the optimals bro...just do nutpunch ex into dash 121 shadow kick. Occasionally you want to end in a nutpunch unless u feel ur opponent knows the match up better than you and dont want to be nut punching. While your doin the combo i noted just practice doing this combo: ex nut punch :buffer dash during last hit of ex nutpunch 2 f4 nutpunch for restand. After restand game is kinda like thsi: if u think they will d1: ur d1 if timed correctly beats it, d1 then grab or d1 f4 or d1 124(if they block u got plus frames). If you think they will block: grab. Also like someone said above, f3 stagger game is no joke. If opponent is crouch blocking a shitload (on top of hella grabbing and dash grabbing) start ur stagger game with F3. F3 followed immediately by another f3 or a grab.

Another thing to note about restands and staggering: assume your opponent will addapt. Thus going straight from f3 into grab on your first stagger might not be the best idea as their reaction might be to let go of block next time and d2 ur throw(this also blows up f3f3). Just think about how you can make ur oppoent fuck up and when it changes to a counter fuck that up too.
 

Owerbart

I miss you
at this point i'm 100% sure that johnny is a bottom 3 kharacter. I just find hilarious how a "footsies" kharacter has such atrocious normals. JC is only a gimmick kharacter with no real threats. Even mashers that don't know whats going on have a chance on beating you.

whiffing issues are of course backbreaking, but saying that that is the only problem is trying to cover the sun with a finger.
 

Owerbart

I miss you
How are you using Mime Time to get value in a typical match? It's such an awkward parry for me to use that I really only save it to punish wakeups, otherwise it just feels like I'm holding up a 'Hit me' sign.
because mime time can hardly be considered a parry when it takes 5f to activate. It's probably, like 70% of cage specials, are in contedership for "worst moves in the game". And the fact that such a comical move is one of the few ways to get a KB speaks miles of how devastatingly horrible Johnny Cage's design is in this game.

also, i think this is something that its not getting addressed that much, but the meter system in this game is a big "fuck you" to johnny. In previous games JC preyed on building meter thru blockstrings, which is useless here. Same way as the chip damage is too thin to matter.
 
The Johnny Cage tower that's up right now is literally impossible to do. This is bullshit. Why do we have to have modifiers? It's the dumbest thing ever.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
The Johnny Cage tower that's up right now is literally impossible to do. This is bullshit. Why do we have to have modifiers? It's the dumbest thing ever.
I just beat it with some guy I met who played Kung Lao and I was Shang. He’s not too bad of you pick a strong zoning character. The Kung Lao guy did about 30% of the damage and I did the other 70%. It took a few tries.

Zoning is the key, especially when Cage gets armor.

Edit: we used zero modifiers.
 

Tundra81

This is re-goddamned-diculous
Premium Supporter
How long is the tower up for? What are the rewards? I won't be home until late evening tomorrow, FML.
 
at this point i'm 100% sure that johnny is a bottom 3 kharacter. I just find hilarious how a "footsies" kharacter has such atrocious normals. JC is only a gimmick kharacter with no real threats. Even mashers that don't know whats going on have a chance on beating you.

whiffing issues are of course backbreaking, but saying that that is the only problem is trying to cover the sun with a finger.
Not bottom 3 in my opinion. B tier in the right hands.
I just beat it with some guy I met who played Kung Lao and I was Shang. He’s not too bad of you pick a strong zoning character. The Kung Lao guy did about 30% of the damage and I did the other 70%. It took a few tries.

Zoning is the key, especially when Cage gets armor.

Edit: we used zero modifiers.
just tell me if I can get that outfit in the krypt so.I can stop. I don't have the patience.
 

LarSanity

Who hired this guy
Gonna try that tower later, its best to use a character that has great projectile for the types of towers. Sonyas my difficult tower character easy 40% damage and her rings are amazing.

On a side note despite my irritation with cage im still playing and winning it just gets almost like a 2nd job how much work he needs to win.
Honestly the character has made my footsies and general pressure that much better, so hopefully he gets alittle buffs.

What do you guys feel is most important fixes he needs between
Whiffs, useful KBs, faster starters, or does he need mids
 

Owerbart

I miss you
Gonna try that tower later, its best to use a character that has great projectile for the types of towers. Sonyas my difficult tower character easy 40% damage and her rings are amazing.

On a side note despite my irritation with cage im still playing and winning it just gets almost like a 2nd job how much work he needs to win.
Honestly the character has made my footsies and general pressure that much better, so hopefully he gets alittle buffs.

What do you guys feel is most important fixes he needs between
Whiffs, useful KBs, faster starters, or does he need mids
MIDS

--power gap--

whiffs
faster starters
kbs

in that order
 

LarSanity

Who hired this guy
MIDS

--power gap--

whiffs
faster starters
kbs

in that order
I'm okay without mids if his moves were alittle faster like f3 should be like 11 frames cause its such a high risk move and f2 should be like 9 frames giving him a fast forward advancing punish like the rest of the cast.
I think f4 is fine being such a long-range mid. B3 I'm not sure it does reach far maybe like 15 or 16 frames would be good as some characters have 12 and 13 frame lows but dont reach as far.
Now that's assuming NRS doesnt know how to fix the Whiff and KB issues.
 

Tundra81

This is re-goddamned-diculous
Premium Supporter
I think the hardest part of this tower was finding an adequate partner. I kept getting paired up with so and so "420" or something something "boi" who kept trying to go 1 on 1 with their Scorpion. Once I got matched up with someone who realized you have to sub early and often it was a breeze.

As far as what Johnny needs, I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement about the same issues, whiffing, KB's yata yata yata. I think by bringing some of the S tiers down to an even playing field would help our boy out immensely. Not exactly sure how to go about that but if they started by deleting Sonya from the game I wouldn't be that upset.
 
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heildan

NANI?!
I have some faith in NRS to fix the hitboxes issues and changing/animate some new KBs despite not fixing them hitboxes in the prior games. That can't be any more difficult than fixin an entire netcode from ground up like they did with MKX.

Maybe that's why they are taking their time to release a patch, at least I hope.

Btw, I'm glad that this forum is getting together, looking for improvements to our character and helping others with their gameplan as players. We had our time raging about some things, but it's time to move on.
 
One thing I hate about Cage is how dumb his brutalities and requirements are. Some characters can simply grab you once and activate them at the end of the match. But Cage has to grab 3 times first. Not that it's hard to pull off since you're grabbing a lot anyway, but damn. Mic check is his easiest one to do. It's just weak along with the others. Shoves a microphone down your throat, shoves a pen in your eye, shoves a trophy in your skull. We get it, he's an actor. What happened to the funny, but badass ones from MKX? Like nutpunching someones head off or the bloodsport kick. They were quick, brutal, and fun to do.
I hope they add knew ones, and we get a fatality dlc too. His fatalities suck ass as well.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
One thing I hate about Cage is how dumb his brutalities and requirements are. Some characters can simply grab you once and activate them at the end of the match. But Cage has to grab 3 times first. Not that it's hard to pull off since you're grabbing a lot anyway, but damn. Mic check is his easiest one to do. It's just weak along with the others. Shoves a microphone down your throat, shoves a pen in your eye, shoves a trophy in your skull. We get it, he's an actor. What happened to the funny, but badass ones from MKX? Like nutpunching someones head off or the bloodsport kick. They were quick, brutal, and fun to do.
I hope they add knew ones, and we get a fatality dlc too. His fatalities suck ass as well.
Gotta admit the Mime Time one is pretty dope