Jade General Discussion Thread

[AK Harold]

They are actually very different characters and both are quite good.

 

[Phr4nk]

Sonya, Geras, Jacqui Briggs, and Cassie Cage made a strong impact in the top 64 bracket for CEO 2019's Mortal Kombat 11

www.eventhubs.com

There were more Jades than Scorpions in the top 64 at CEO. I don’t think it means anything, but I’m taking the win.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Went to the lab to try and learn Shang.
Ended up in Jade's apartment.

Keeping it classy, though.
Tea and crumpets and such.
Happy to be here.

Her zoning game in Emerald Defender is so similar to Kabal's that it would be silly of me NOT to try and pick her up.

Any recommendations as to what NOT to do or develop into bad habits of doing?

 

[Phr4nk]

Jade loses fast and wins slow, so take your time and play safe. Don’t cancel into specials on block and only glow after the amp air glaive. Ignore f2 until you have a gameplan built around b343 . Don’t cancel into specials on block. B2 is great at the right range, but don’t use it up close. And don’t cancel into specials on block.

 

[Wrenchfarm]

Jade loses fast and wins slow, so take your time and play safe. Don’t cancel into specials on block and only glow after the amp air glaive. Ignore f2 until you have a gameplan built around b343 . Don’t cancel into specials on block. B2 is great at the right range, but don’t use it up close. And don’t cancel into specials on block.

Honest question, how do you hit anyone with F22 if you're not occasionally mixing in a low projectile after a blocked F2? A blocked F22 is punishable anyway, so why not try and at least enforce some conditioning?

 

[Phr4nk]

i think the f21/f2 low spark can be a good mix as a deliberate choice, but a really bad habit. B343 staff spin can be great on block every now and then, but if you do it out of habit you will get punished a lot. The f2 mix is the same. You can throw it out to keep your opponent guessing, but if you make it a habit you will eat a lot of damage.

 

[haketh]

Yea, i think Shang is worse than Scorpion. He just destroys her. Its an extremly uphill battle.

That MU is pretty even, yeah Corpse Drop makes it so you can't just run as many Air Glaives as normal but you just switch to a grounded game

 

[OutworldKeith]

Has anyone tried Jaded vs Shang yet?

 

[Afumba]

That MU is pretty even, yeah Corpse Drop makes it so you can't just run as many Air Glaives as normal but you just switch to a grounded game

I respect your oppinion but i dont see it that way.

Shutting down air glaive is not all there is, jumping in general is risky almost everywhere. Glow is a non factor in the matchup and she cant zone him but he can zone her to some extend.

Shang goes at least even-ish with her up close and has advantage at half to full screen and he can put her fullscreen of off any touch. His combos and punishes are also on another level than Jades and he can launch of off anything. He also has better KBs and soulsteal.

So i dont see how this MU is even. Jade easily has to work harder.

 

[Espio]

Has anyone tried Jaded vs Shang yet?

I've played it a lot, why?

That MU is pretty even, yeah Corpse Drop makes it so you can't just run as many Air Glaives as normal but you just switch to a grounded game

Why would that match up be even when you have to chase him with Jade? It's not a "I can't throw glaives so RIP" losing match up type of deal. No matter what, characters are designed around certain tools and glow is not particularly viable in this match up nor is air glaive or zoning for her in general since he wins damage trades handily. Her strongest tools being weaker versus his tools does not bode well for 5-5.

Jade excels when she can control the pacing, she doesn't control it versus Shang at all Shang controls the pacing. He has the pokes and the footsies to keep up just fine with her up close and forced her to come to him. Characters like Jade struggle hard when they get lamed out. If a character has comparatively equal footsies, frame data and safety up close but zones you out and prevents you from utilizing your core variation design moves logic would dictate it is not even.

It might not be 7-3 bad, but even implies a balance of relatively equal checks that are not really present in this match up. Shadow kick can punish poorly spaced attacks.

People in another thread saying Shang loses. I don't know how they came to that conclusion unless they're playing Shangs who fold like cards and don't have solid spacing or fortitude.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I've played it a lot, why?



Why would that match up be even when you have to chase him with Jade? It's not a "I can't throw glaives so RIP" losing match up type of deal. No matter what, characters are designed around certain tools and glow is not particularly viable in this match up nor is air glaive or zoning for her in general since he wins damage trades handily. Her strongest tools being weaker versus his tools does not bode well for 5-5.

Jade excels when she can control the pacing, she doesn't control it versus Shang at all Shang controls the pacing. He has the pokes and the footsies to keep up just fine with her up close and forced her to come to him. Characters like Jade struggle hard when they get lamed out. If a character has comparatively equal footsies, frame data and safety up close but zones you out and prevents you from utilizing your core variation design moves logic would dictate it is not even.

It might not be 7-3 bad, but even implies a balance of relatively equal checks that are not really present in this match up. Shadow kick can punish poorly spaced attacks.

People in another thread saying Shang loses. I don't know how they came to that conclusion unless they're playing Shangs who fold like cards and don't have solid spacing or fortitude.

How is the MU lol?

 

[Espio]

How is the MU lol?

Oh my answer is in the above post then lol.

I don't like it and there's very few Jade match ups I flat out don't like even a tiny bit. I'd rather fight Erron, Geras, etc over Shang. It's not fun and I feel like structurally she is countered by him.

Only match up I'd put on par with it in terms of not wanting to bother with is Scorpion. I've played the match up a lot and am not above thinking there's stuff I can learn and improve on in the match up, but from my observations there's some by design issues at play.

 

[kcd117]

Jade is one of my main characters, and Shang is quickly becoming one too. Played some really good Jades and really good Shangs. That matchup is ass.

It is one of the worst matchups in this game. MK11 doesn't really seem to have hard counterpicks, but Shang fundamentally beats Jade in the core aspects of her gameplan. So far this is the only matchup I'd label a 3-7 with confidence, and that says a lot coming from someone that plays the Kano vs Erron matchup very often.

Only way to beat Shang in this matchup is if he messes up not once, not twice, but like, at least 6 times, which is very unlikely since he doesn't need to commit to anything at all lol. He controls the pace, controls the timer, the neutral, everything.

 

[Hot_DNA]

Jade is one of my main characters, and Shang is quickly becoming one too. Played some really good Jades and really good Shangs. That matchup is ass.

It is one of the worst matchups in this game. MK11 doesn't really seem to have hard counterpicks, but Shang fundamentally beats Jade in the core aspects of her gameplan. So far this is the only matchup I'd label a 3-7 with confidence, and that says a lot coming from someone that plays the Kano vs Erron matchup very often.

Only way to beat Shang in this matchup is if he messes up not once, not twice, but like, at least 6 times, which is very unlikely since he doesn't need to commit to anything at all lol. He controls the pace, controls the timer, the neutral, everything.

I literally JUST lost to a shang.. that shit is terrible.. Might be her worst matchup.. body drop is a game changer

 

[Afumba]

That MU is pretty even, yeah Corpse Drop makes it so you can't just run as many Air Glaives as normal but you just switch to a grounded game

I respect your oppinion but i dont see it that way.

Shutting down Air Glaive is not all there is. Glow is also a non factor in the MU and jumping in general is a big risk almost everywhere. She also cant zone him but he can zone her to some extend.

Shang goes at least even-ish at close range, has an advantage half to fullscreen and he can put her fullscreen easily. His combos and punish are also on another level than Jades. He can juggle of off anything, has Soulsteal and his KBs are better as well.

So i dont see how its an even MU. Jade easily has to work harder.

 

[seanpon]

the fact that Jade's Bnb is only 18%, yet corpse drop amplified does 15% should tell you enough about the shang vs jade match up. The stupid thing is even after a blocked corpse drop you can't activate glow, he can just do it again and hit you with it. As jade you have to get in on Shang, which is not what she wants to do. And the problem with that is Shang has better footsies and his damage completely blows Jade's out of the water. As jade you probably have to hit Shang 3x as much to win than he has to hit you. Shang indeed counters Jade structurally as a character which is kind of a big problem, in any first to 2 if the opponent picks Shang your already on the back footing considering you have a high chance of loosing that match up and have to win the following 2 with a different character.

 

[kcd117]

I forgot to add, the pole vault variation, from my experience, does way better against him tho. It still a really hard match, but with the run and run cancel she can force Shang to commit in the corpse drop placement. If he misses it, you get a free punish if you ran in/stopped earlier. Her oki in this variation is also low key bonkers with the hit advantage on regular pole vault, and it helps her keep the pressure on him once she scores a hit, with the added benefit of a little bit extra dmg on conversions.

 

[Arqwart]

I forgot to add, the pole vault variation, from my experience, does way better against him tho. It still a really hard match, but with the run and run cancel she can force Shang to commit in the corpse drop placement. If he misses it, you get a free punish if you ran in/stopped earlier. Her oki in this variation is also low key bonkers with the hit advantage on regular pole vault, and it helps her keep the pressure on him once she scores a hit, with the added benefit of a little bit extra dmg on conversions.

Was reading through the comments about the Shang MU and was going to say this. It's literally the ONLY MU where I think Jaded is a good pick over Emerald Defender (though I always just go Kabal instead, but that's not the point of this thread). Corpse drop has a relatively long start-up alongside the fall time of the corpse so Pole Vault should stuff it HARD. A good Shang is going to learn VERY quickly not to just throw out corpse drops willy nilly, but that just means you've taken a tool away from him so you can play a pressure-based game.

I need to lab it to see if it works, but I think Jade can Pole Vault through the second fireball of rising skulls on reaction after blocking the first. I know some characters like Noob can simply do one of their advancing normals through it so I assume Jade can Pole Vault to run his ass down. With how long the recovery of rising skulls is, Jade should be able to cancel Pole Vault into a combo if she so chooses. Again, I have no experience with this yet so don't take this as gospel. I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[seanpon]

Was reading through the comments about the Shang MU and was going to say this. It's literally the ONLY MU where I think Jaded is a good pick over Emerald Defender (though I always just go Kabal instead, but that's not the point of this thread). Corpse drop has a relatively long start-up alongside the fall time of the corpse so Pole Vault should stuff it HARD. A good Shang is going to learn VERY quickly not to just throw out corpse drops willy nilly, but that just means you've taken a tool away from him so you can play a pressure-based game.

I need to lab it to see if it works, but I think Jade can Pole Vault through the second fireball of rising skulls on reaction after blocking the first. I know some characters like Noob can simply do one of their advancing normals through it so I assume Jade can Pole Vault to run his ass down. With how long the recovery of rising skulls is, Jade should be able to cancel Pole Vault into a combo if she so chooses. Again, I have no experience with this yet so don't take this as gospel. I'm just thinking out loud.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1141118477975064576

I think this is the optimal punish against Shang's ground skulls (it happens around 1:40). But yeah, I guess its cool to try and learn Jaded against Shang and have some use for that variation. I'm still going to stick with emerald defender though, I just feel like loosing the zoning with edenian spark and upward air glaive is still not good enough for me to choose the pole vault variation. Shang could just corpse drop right in front of him or ground skull while your running, activating glow without the plus frames from air glaive is goiing to be hard.

 

[kcd117]

Was reading through the comments about the Shang MU and was going to say this. It's literally the ONLY MU where I think Jaded is a good pick over Emerald Defender (though I always just go Kabal instead, but that's not the point of this thread). Corpse drop has a relatively long start-up alongside the fall time of the corpse so Pole Vault should stuff it HARD. A good Shang is going to learn VERY quickly not to just throw out corpse drops willy nilly, but that just means you've taken a tool away from him so you can play a pressure-based game.

I need to lab it to see if it works, but I think Jade can Pole Vault through the second fireball of rising skulls on reaction after blocking the first. I know some characters like Noob can simply do one of their advancing normals through it so I assume Jade can Pole Vault to run his ass down. With how long the recovery of rising skulls is, Jade should be able to cancel Pole Vault into a combo if she so chooses. Again, I have no experience with this yet so don't take this as gospel. I'm just thinking out loud.

Yeah I also feel like it really limits the corpse drop galore, making it more manageable. I’m used to punish ground skulls with nitro kick, it is not that much dmg but it sends a message and leaves them really second guessing if they should do anything other than straight fireball after getting hit by one, due to the risk of another kick with KB. That hesitation usually grants you a free glow.

 

[Phr4nk]

TIL Jade has a 50/50 vortex on the trap dungeon stage. That lion interactible in the right corner ends in a restand with more than 28 plus frames. This means that ending a combo in the interactible jails f2 and f3. (An overhead and a low.) In the corner f2 and f3 lead into combos that can end in the interactible , setting up the vortex

F21 43 interactible does 285
F21 4bf1amp d1 21 interactible does 351
F34bf2 d1 d1 d1 21 interactible does 230
You have to micro dash to land the f3, but it still jails.

 

[GLoRToR]

Oh my answer is in the above post then lol.

I don't like it and there's very few Jade match ups I flat out don't like even a tiny bit. I'd rather fight Erron, Geras, etc over Shang. It's not fun and I feel like structurally she is countered by him.

Only match up I'd put on par with it in terms of not wanting to bother with is Scorpion. I've played the match up a lot and am not above thinking there's stuff I can learn and improve on in the match up, but from my observations there's some by design issues at play.

It beats the fuck out of me why they'd give a character a tool (glow) make it take 56 frames so it gets blown the fuck up ANYway and then even give characters compelling tools that it just doesn't work against.

I'm going to keep this game uninstalled until I see consistency.
even Waz dropped Jade. smh.

 

[Elias6999]

TIL Jade has a 50/50 vortex on the trap dungeon stage. That lion interactible in the right corner ends in a restand with more than 28 plus frames. This means that ending a combo in the interactible jails f2 and f3. (An overhead and a low.) In the corner f2 and f3 lead into combos that can end in the interactible , setting up the vortex

F21 43 interactible does 285
F21 4bf1amp d1 21 interactible does 351
F34bf2 d1 d1 d1 21 interactible does 230
You have to micro dash to land the f3, but it still jails.

F2 is 30 frames, no way youre landing it raw lol. its more of a whiff punish anti poke anti wakeup tool

 

[Elias6999]

It beats the fuck out of me why they'd give a character a tool (glow) make it take 56 frames so it gets blown the fuck up ANYway and then even give characters compelling tools that it just doesn't work against.

I'm going to keep this game uninstalled until I see consistency.
even Waz dropped Jade. smh.

Dude, the first patch hasn’t even dropped yet. Calm down a bit, EVO is soon, we’re getting a patch lol

 

[Phr4nk]

F2 is 30 frames, no way youre landing it raw lol. its more of a whiff punish anti poke anti wakeup tool

Exactly! That's why I'm so excited about this interactible. It's super busted. So busted that it leaves the opponent in enough hit stun to jail a F2.

You can set up the vortex with anything. B343 interactible etc. Hell, the thing is a throw, so you can do it when they're blocking.

Then, after you hit the interactible once - when the opponent has already been fed to the lion and is now on fire - they have to sit there burning for like 30 frames. In this time you can make the opponent guess between an overhead or a low (f2 or f3). If they guess wrong, you can do a combo that ends in the interactible, and make them guess again.

Guess is a bit of a stretch. F2 is slow enough to react to if the opponent knows what is going on. But it's still fun tech.