What's new

After CEO, I've realized throws are really killing my hype in this game.

Hi, OP here. Just want to point out that I wasn't complaining about having to figure out how to defend against throws. What I said was that seeing three, four, five throws in a row, or ten to twenty throws per match, especially given the lengthy and repetitive animations, is boring. And it is. Just like how I never enjoyed in the Marvel games watching Morrigan fireball loops or Storm aerial zoning or Dante combos. They're just boring. That's it.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
I disagree that you need 50/50 throws to open people up. Pressure itself can open people up, take a look at SF4. Throws were easily techable if you had the reactions. The way you opened people up is via pressure and footsies. The reason this would work even better in MK11 is because everything does chip damage. If someone just sits there and blocks and techs all throws, they will lose because even teched throws do damage.

@Circus
In SF4 there was the throw tech option select that made it so a low short would come out if you didn't tech a throw. It was an unbelievably amazing mechanic that basically made up the entire offense and defense of SF4 from up close. They also didn't have to let go of block to initiate it because the game itself is back to block. That still being said, the throws weren't really techable on reaction, and pro players like Diago openly said that he'd eat 5 throws in a row if he had to because it beats the gamble of OSing the throw tech and taking 40% damage.

This entire debate about the throw system really just comes down to preference in the end though.

I personally came from Tekken originally where throw techs on reaction are expected at the highest level so I really never minded the MK system of throw techs.

There really isn't a right answer to the "Keep it the way it is now or lower the tech window and make it one button techs", but either way, throws will be used a ton in a game like MK11. I don't think there is anyway to get around that unless they make throw techs too easy and the game turns into a defensive turtle-fest.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
maybe having stance animations would help teching, for example, forward throw should always grab with the face towards the cam, while the back throw would always show the character's back to the cam, even if 10f with if tech window was increased slightly a bit for 2 or 3 frames, we should be able to tech on reaction if we were looking for it.
Why though? This isn't tekken where characters have 40 different throw animations to worry about. You can't cancel into them, mask them, or even kara them. This whole thread is just the 2019 version of "throwing is cheap". Some times you get throwed, deal with it.
 
As has been said already, both the innate 50/50 nature of throws as well as their high damage actually ends up being beneficial to the offense/defense balance of the game. When throws aren't strong, turtling is -- and many characters in this game would have difficulty opening you up at all if you removed or substantially decreased the threat of being grabbed. You'd just further push the 'strength' bias in the direction of characters with high/low 50/50s like Sonya. My only gripe is how long the animations are for some of them. Not everything needs to be equivalent to a cinematic.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
some of you are not aware that if they change throw tech to one button (throw button) instead of 5050, there will be an throw (tech) animation!
which means you could bait it and punish!
ppl here act like they could not open ppl up anymore or something which is wrong. wrong as fuck lul
I would agree with you here but the range on throws and with the way throws beat out the startup of normals, it could lead to a lot of frustration when trying to bait techs.

I think the system is fine as is.
 
In SF4 there was the throw tech option select that made it so a low short would come out if you didn't tech a throw.
see, even though there was an os against throws, ppl still got throwed in that game.
as an argument to the ppl who fear that they would never throw opponents again in mk11 (without os)

my main argument:
i like to react and not to guess.
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Premium Supporter
Why do I keep seeing people say throws are 50/50s, they aren't. There is an obvious and stated general direction you will get thrown in 90% of the time.

Near the corner? probably gonna be a forward throw!
They in the corner? Probably gonna try to throw you in the corner!

The only mix is from taking the "wrong" choice to beat the throw tech.
 
I would agree with you here but the range on throws and with the way throws beat out the startup of normals, it could lead to a lot of frustration when trying to bait techs.

I think the system is fine as is.
yeah, you are right, if they decide to change it, that would trigger other things too
it's not gonna happen but this is a good discussion anyways ;)
 
have you guys ever experienced that some kind of online players are kinda not throwable in certain direction?
why though?

a- do they have godlike throw tech reactions?
b- they were mashing d2,s and just accidentally teching throws via os?
 
Why do I keep seeing people say throws are 50/50s, they aren't. There is an obvious and stated general direction you will get thrown in 90% of the time.

Near the corner? probably gonna be a forward throw!
They in the corner? Probably gonna try to throw you in the corner!

The only mix is from taking the "wrong" choice to beat the throw tech.
Because it's the definition of a 50/50 once the grab has been initiated. There's a mind game associated with it, yes, but for instance I myself will regularly throw people AWAY from the corner for your stated reason (I play Geras, so it's not like I don't get oki either way) and am noticing more players doing this as the meta develops. Same deal with Geras' 111 string. It's not "not a 50/50" just because logic dictates you have a greater chance of landing a sand trap on block than the KB overhead -- your opponent will more likely block high because nobody wants to eat the 30-whatever % KB, but it's still a guess, because I (as the person throwing) could choose to observe that bias or not and you (the defender) have no idea whether I will. Same as if you take corner positioning out of the equation and solely look at a post-failed break attempt situation vs a character who has a throw KB. By that token you could argue rock paper scissors isn't a true 33/33/33 either since it's long been established the average person is biased to start rock more often than anything else.

This is where forum discussion gets sketchy for me, when we get so deep into it that theory crafting starts to defy logic.
 
Last edited:
some of you are not aware that if they change throw tech to one button (throw button) instead of 5050, there will be an throw (tech) animation!
which means you could bait it and punish!
ppl here act like they could not open ppl up anymore or something which is wrong. wrong as fuck lul
There is already a whiff animation for throw....and it’s very generous...
 
Without throws there's no good access to damage for much of the cast in the game.

Take away the 50/50 and this game becomes timeout city. Are people not watching the top 8's? Imagine in addition to all the throws that get teched- if in addition to that every throw with "failed break" got teched as well.

but not for throw tech.
This only works in games where throws are so fast that you must tech by pre-emptively pressing a button (KI and SF throws that are around 4/5 frames). Here you can just decide to not press the tech button until you see the throw startup so you're never committed to any whiff recovery.

That and consider that you can just neutral duck throws in this game. So if you're going to make a pre-emptive decision to tech a throw there's no reason to commit yourself to something that will have punishable recovery and counterable active frames like in SF/KI.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
have you guys ever experienced that some kind of online players are kinda not throwable in certain direction?
why though?

a- do they have godlike throw tech reactions?
b- they were mashing d2,s and just accidentally teching throws via os?
It doesn't require anything godlike man, it just takes practice.

I don't have the exact numbers, but if you combine the startup of a grab (10 frames) with the tech window (20 frames?), you have plenty of time to react with reasonable practice.
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as SFV where every single major I see rushdown characters like Cammy and Rashid land 10x as many throws as grapplers like Zangief and Abigail, and often 4-5 in a row in the corner.