Jax General Discussion

[ATIWAB]

The reason why it's unsafe, incredibly at that, is because it is very slow and telegraphed, especially at max range/ 3/4s screen. It isn't unsafe because of the frame data on block, but because it is naturally beaten by just walking backwards or jumping

It's almost like that's why

you can

cancel

it.

 

[wsj515]

It's almost like that's why

you can

cancel

it.

If you are canceling it at that range, you aren't accomplishing anything though. It's a really slow cancel, you are just making yourself susceptible to their own footsie tools and jump ins. Just walking forward would be better - forces them to either react to you, which you can then answer, or you get a free f2/f4, which lead to real mix.

 

[ATIWAB]

If you are canceling it at that range, you aren't accomplishing anything though. It's a really slow cancel, you are just making yourself susceptible to their own footsie tools and jump ins. Just walking forward would be better - forces them to either react to you, which you can then answer, or you get a free f2/f4, which lead to real mix.

read as: "I still don't understand mind games at all, can you spoon feed me more answers daddy?"

• if you could "just walk in" on Kabal 100% of the time this conversation wouldn't exist, since the entire thing started as a discussion about how he's more difficult to get in on than other MUs because his optimal range is longer than yours.
• f4 is still busted and you can't rely on it for anything right now.

(this is why you're obnoxious, btw.)

 

[wsj515]

read as: "I still don't understand mind games at all, can you spoon feed me more answers daddy?"

• if you could "just walk in" on Kabal 100% of the time this conversation wouldn't exist, since the entire thing started as a discussion about how he's more difficult to get in on than other MUs because his optimal range is longer than yours.
• f4 is still busted and you can't rely on it for anything right now.

(this is why you're obnoxious, btw.)

Somehow I'm obnoxious yet keeping this civil and not resorting to ad hominems.

Its clear you just want to be "right" so we'll leave it at that. I would love to see some footage of you in a real match using this amazing strategy to "mix" people from 3/4s screen that you are so confident about, I'm sure we would all benefit from it.

 

[UPR_Nova]

Dang bruh. I'm trying to be hella nice. You could have left it at "we're already agreeing to disagree" lol. You actually gotta chill. None of us on here pros

 

[UPR_Nova]

Actually, here's something that should be said: I'm not attacking you @ATIWAB. I don't get that vibe from @wsj515 either. Most attack on here, but I don't think that's where he (and I know I) are coming from. Chill my dude lol.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

I don't know if it's known, but Jax has a whiffing issue on his b32 against Johnny Cage (I don't know if this string is Hunker Down only). If Johnny neutral crouches at the second hit of the b32, the move (mid) will whiff and Jax can be full combo punished.

 

[TyCarter35]

I don't know if it's known, but Jax has a whiffing issue on his b32 against Johnny Cage (I don't know if this string is Hunker Down only). If Johnny neutral crouches at the second hit of the b32, the move (mid) will whiff and Jax can be full combo punished.

NRS stop nerfing Jax smh

 

[DrZmmm]

Any advice on dealing with this character?

 

[ATIWAB]

Any advice on dealing with this character?

Flawless block the OH ender on Expert Grappler combos with your U2 block attack, it's easy to learn the timing because of the big gap and you'll win a lot more often when you can full combo punish it.

Otherwise, same as any rushdown character -- play a zoner or someone who has a further optimal footsie range than Jax does, like Jade etc.

 

[Down 2]

I really need tips on fighting Liu Kang with Jax, that character seems to be my one weakness so anything is appreciated.

 

[ATIWAB]

I really need tips on fighting Liu Kang with Jax, that character seems to be my one weakness so anything is appreciated.

• F43 is unsafe so if you block both they'll usually either finish out the string to the safe F43U3 or cancel into low FB -- you can poke out of the safe F43U3 string between the huge 3 and U3 gap.
• Always block low since he has no OH starter (he has a string with OH as the second hit in Shaolin stance -- his DD1 2 -- but first hit is a mid so very easy to telegraph).
• His F3333 is very unsafe and you should full combo punish it any time he tries to use it.

Pretty much it tbh, the rest is just knowing his frame data on his other strings.

 

[ThePotooLad]

Hello! I am new to posting here, although I have been a ghost looking at different threads for the past few weeks. I am not sure where else to ask this, but here goes. I have played fighting games before, and I am finally making the commitment to take my game to the next level and attempt to be a more competitive player. Although I have not had the same attachment as most people here to MK (because I grew up on SF) the Injustice series really sold me on NRS, and I have come to love the fun and characters in MK and I look back wishing I played when MKX was active. That all being said I am really intent on learning Jax since I loooove grappler characters, but I am afraid that Hunker Down might gimp my fundamentals and teach me non-transferable skills (due to lack of combos and being grab heavy) to other characters should I want to do that. Are there tips, advice, etc you all can give me? Should I play Grinnin' instead? Again, I apologize if this is not the thread to ask. Thanks in advance!

 

[ATIWAB]

Hello! I am new to posting here, although I have been a ghost looking at different threads for the past few weeks. I am not sure where else to ask this, but here goes. I have played fighting games before, and I am finally making the commitment to take my game to the next level and attempt to be a more competitive player. Although I have not had the same attachment as most people here to MK (because I grew up on SF) the Injustice series really sold me on NRS, and I have come to love the fun and characters in MK and I look back wishing I played when MKX was active. That all being said I am really intent on learning Jax since I loooove grappler characters, but I am afraid that Hunker Down might gimp my fundamentals and teach me non-transferable skills (due to lack of combos and being grab heavy) to other characters should I want to do that. Are there tips, advice, etc you all can give me? Should I play Grinnin' instead? Again, I apologize if this is not the thread to ask. Thanks in advance!

Play Baraka.

Edit -- that probably sounds dismissive, so to explain:

Baraka will teach you better NRS fundamentals than Jax will.

Baraka is a little less reliant on KBs so he forces you to learn good habits -- footsies, knowing your turn, reading, etc. -- instead of falling back on crazy sequences of damage as a crutch, outside his one 50% in Marauder.

Baraka has a command grab with way more tick options (and ability to do it from range) if you play his Bone Picker variation, so you get a better feel for when to use them, how to mind-game with them, and they don't have a 4-7 button input or cost him meter to be worth a shit.

Baraka has more reliable and more effective zoning with Blade Spark than anything Jax has in his entire kit (since missiles cost heat resource) so you get a better sense for how that should work, too.

Baraka has real combos, unlike Jax, so you're forced to learn block/hit confirms in a way you really aren't required to with Jax -- he doesn't have a good "safe" cancel on block confirm outside of BF2 amp -- how staggering is intended to work, etc. Baraka has a non-corner restand on strings that would normally end in knockdown just by canceling into Blade Spark. Baraka has the two simplest pressure strings in the game. Etc., etc.

Baraka is who you want if your aim is to understand NRS fundamentals. It's almost like he was designed for it.

 

[ThePotooLad]

Play Baraka.

Edit -- that probably sounds dismissive, so to explain:

Baraka will teach you better NRS fundamentals than Jax will.

Baraka is a little less reliant on KBs so he forces you to learn good habits -- footsies, knowing your turn, reading, etc. -- instead of falling back on crazy sequences of damage as a crutch, outside his one 50% in Marauder.

Baraka has a command grab with way more tick options (and ability to do it from range) if you play his Bone Picker variation, so you get a better feel for when to use them, how to mind-game with them, and they don't have a 4-7 button input or cost him meter to be worth a shit.

Baraka has more reliable and more effective zoning with Blade Spark than anything Jax has in his entire kit (since missiles cost heat resource) so you get a better sense for how that should work, too.

Baraka has real combos, unlike Jax, so you're forced to learn block/hit confirms in a way you really aren't required to with Jax -- he doesn't have a good "safe" cancel on block confirm outside of BF2 amp -- how staggering is intended to work, etc. Baraka has a non-corner restand on strings that would normally end in knockdown just by canceling into Blade Spark. Baraka has the two simplest pressure strings in the game. Etc., etc.

Baraka is who you want if your aim is to understand NRS fundamentals. It's almost like he was designed for it.

I really appreciate this response. Thank you for your time! Maybe after I play and understand MK more, I may find a better suited character for my play style. Until then, Baraka it is!

 

[MrArcher15]

guys we have a serious issue, just played against a kung lao who was d3ing or d4ing me out of my 1+3 in hunker down

Edit: it seems like you can 100% d3 the 1+3 in f33 1+3, and depending on the distance you can d3 the f21+3, that last one id have to double check

 

[ATIWAB]

guys we have a serious issue, just played against a kung lao who was d3ing or d4ing me out of my 1+3 in hunker down

Edit: it seems like you can 100% d3 the 1+3 in f33 1+3, and depending on the distance you can d3 the f21+3, that last one id have to double check

Thought it was already pretty well-known there's a gap in the F33.

When you play against someone who knows the gap and keeps poking it out (or if they're good at FBing the OH), start doing BF2 on block for your F33 instead. If you catch them trying to D3 you knock the shit out of them and after a couple times they'll stop trying to poke it out on your OH.

 

[MrArcher15]

Thought it was already pretty well-known there's a gap in the F33.

When you play against someone who knows the gap and keeps poking it out (or if they're good at FBing the OH), start doing BF2 on block for your F33 instead. If you catch them trying to D3 you knock the shit out of them and after a couple times they'll stop trying to poke it out on your OH.

Yeah I’m aware of the gap but never had someone consistently check me before. Made me just think it was a bug haha

 

[ATIWAB]

Yeah I’m aware of the gap but never had someone consistently check me before. Made me just think it was a bug haha

Yeah, only a few characters can actually poke it, not everyone with a 7f can even do it because it depends on how low their profile is for their poke, too. Like Shang also has a 7f D3 but can't poke it out because his head is higher so connects with the hurtbox before the kick comes out.

 

[wsj515]

You can also just not complete the string and block the poke - now you are plus and can f33 again, throw, whatever. Willingly giving up your turn is an important part of staggering.

 

[MrArcher15]

You can also just not complete the string and block the poke - now you are plus and can f33 again, throw, whatever. Willingly giving up your turn is an important part of staggering.

Yeah dude I know it’s just you know when someone does something you think they can’t do and it works? Blew my mind I didn’t recover

 

[MrArcher15]

Yeah, only a few characters can actually poke it, not everyone with a 7f can even do it because it depends on how low their profile is for their poke, too. Like Shang also has a 7f D3 but can't poke it out because his head is higher so connects with the hurtbox before the kick comes out.

Yeah it’s just weird I tried to do it with Jax and same thing occurred

 

[ATIWAB]

You can also just not complete the string and block the poke - now you are plus and can f33 again, throw, whatever. Willingly giving up your turn is an important part of staggering.

BF2 Amp leaves less to chance.

If you try to end the string at F33 and down block and they were trying the d3 poke, good, you end up + and can continue pressure, but if they -weren't- trying to poke it out, now you've given up your turn.

On the other hand, if you cancel it into BF2 Amp and they were trying to poke, you get 14% and a ton of corner carry + condition them to stop down poking. If they weren't trying to poke, you're still safe to continue pressure and still get a good amount of corner carry.

Just depends on whether or not the bar is worth it to you, I guess.

(Speaking of blocking D3s to end up + though, have y'all seen that Shang's D3 is -2 on block? tf)

 

[MrArcher15]

BF2 Amp leaves less to chance.

If you try to end the string at F33 and down block and they were trying the d3 poke, good, you end up + and can continue pressure, but if they -weren't- trying to poke it out, now you've given up your turn.

On the other hand, if you cancel it into BF2 Amp and they were trying to poke, you get 14% and a ton of corner carry + condition them to stop down poking. If they weren't trying to poke, you're still safe to continue pressure and still get a good amount of corner carry.

Just depends on whether or not the bar is worth it to you, I guess.

(Speaking of blocking D3s to end up + though, have y'all seen that Shang's D3 is -2 on block? tf)

Yes dude, I played reo the other day when Shang first came out and he kept d3ing me. The block stun is weird too made me think it was plus

 

[wsj515]

BF2 Amp leaves less to chance.

If you try to end the string at F33 and down block and they were trying the d3 poke, good, you end up + and can continue pressure, but if they -weren't- trying to poke it out, now you've given up your turn.

On the other hand, if you cancel it into BF2 Amp and they were trying to poke, you get 14% and a ton of corner carry + condition them to stop down poking. If they weren't trying to poke, you're still safe to continue pressure and still get a good amount of corner carry.

Just depends on whether or not the bar is worth it to you, I guess.

(Speaking of blocking D3s to end up + though, have y'all seen that Shang's D3 is -2 on block? tf)

bf2 EX is definitely 'better' because it will eat the d3, but you still give up your turn and lose a bar if they didn't d3, same as just blocking. You're basically spending the bar for the potential of a damage payout, which like you said is just something you need to make a decision on.