Lost to a newbie (scrub) when you shouldn't! Is this part of what makes you a better fighter?

[D-Que Beats]

How many times has this happen to you? (Esp this week of MK11) Uppercuts, no juggle combos, no footise, no fundamentals, jumping, etc... There are multiple factors that contribute this type of behavior like lag, luck, lack of character knowledge, etc...

I'm sure we've all played like this when we first touched a fighting game but when we progress and grind we become more advance so when we enter online we expect our opponent to know what their doing.

I'm a tad bit salty and angry, more depressed right now loosing to someone who only uppercut and zoned me. And with my main too. It was 2-0. They went from Jade to Geras to my main Skarlet.

Because you are custom to playing at an advance style with footsie and fundamentals, by coming across an online individual with nothing whatsoever your forced to play "scruby" OR you can zone. So does this aspect of the fighting game grind actually contribute to you becoming a better fighter? Forcing to lower your mindset just for the sake of defeating a newbie?

Have you lost to a newbie when you shouldn't have? (Lowkey I know I'm not alone on this)

Am I looking way 2 deep into this?

yes its called over playing your opponent

 

[SaSSolino]

I lose to noobs when my wifi acts up. Drop everything, can’t react to anything.
Today I’ve lost to a Scorp cause I couldn’t punish his constant teleport and chain spin.

Can't you just abuse f43u3? Without flawless block it's basically an infinite.

 

[Wrenchfarm]

Good article on adopting a proper mind set to playing weaker players https://medium.com/@pattheflip/playing-against-weaker-players-is-good-for-you-5f6a81e97632

 

[Hor_PeT]

How many times has this happen to you? (Esp this week of MK11) Uppercuts, no juggle combos, no footise, no fundamentals, jumping, etc... There are multiple factors that contribute this type of behavior like lag, luck, lack of character knowledge, etc...

I'm sure we've all played like this when we first touched a fighting game but when we progress and grind we become more advance so when we enter online we expect our opponent to know what their doing.

I'm a tad bit salty and angry, more depressed right now loosing to someone who only uppercut and zoned me. And with my main too. It was 2-0. They went from Jade to Geras to my main Skarlet.

Because you are custom to playing at an advance style with footsie and fundamentals, by coming across an online individual with nothing whatsoever your forced to play "scruby" OR you can zone. So does this aspect of the fighting game grind actually contribute to you becoming a better fighter? Forcing to lower your mindset just for the sake of defeating a newbie?

Have you lost to a newbie when you shouldn't have? (Lowkey I know I'm not alone on this)

Am I looking way 2 deep into this?

If you play a total unknown player you do not know what to expect.

You can expect that he will respect the frames and your stagger pressure will work - but then you realize that he just spam D2 when you hit D1 and want to throw lol. Not because he reads the throw just because.. or he does not even see that you are in advantage lol.

To be honest I prefer playing players for longer sets as you get your opponent better (vica versa) and you can REALLY come into each others mind - and more importantly you see his skill level compared to you and decide if its a good fight or not.

If you have problem with random people you just need to check your oppponent first with guaranteed stuff. If you see that he does not respect anything you know what to do - if you see he cares about your game you can play higher level and do the counter strategy.

I do not play ranked but kasual and I use the first 1-2 matches to observe my opponent. That does not mean I let him win just do not pressure the hell out of him until I do not know what he can do. It is more fun that way.

Now in MK11 I observe even more carefully if I do not even know the opponent's character...

 

[untitledsix]

If you're losing to scrub play then you're playing scrubby. "Fundamental" play is fundamental because its optimal and should beat scrub tactics.

 

[FanTalk]

Thank you for the awesome advice/feedback! @Ludaaak @BolverkGTM @Marlow @STB Hellbringer @haketh @Wazurau @KutlessMyth @Paraosyte @ZeroSymbolic @Sazbak @Thingy @DragonofDadashov24

And a big thank you to the previous individuals poking my mentality / philosophy on opponents.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Can't you just abuse f43u3? Without flawless block it's basically an infinite.

Nope, it has a gap that looks even bigger with lags

 

[AK Harold]

As others have echoed you lost you aren't better.
Is it a path to getting better? It can be. Winning constantly will level you up a lot slower than losing from time to time because odds are you are hitting below your weight class.

Kill your ego for a second and admit your weakness. Then if you have it in you figure out how to capitalize.

I can beat a lot of players with D1 d4 d2 and throw. If anything the player using less tools to win is arguably much better because they have self imposed limitations.

How to improve. Identify the problem.
Do you know your frames? How is he hitting you?
Example
A lot of players D1 then throw. When they get uppercut for the 10th time in a match they bitch and moan about how scrubby the other player is. Instead break it down.
D1 is let's say +8 on hit and is mid.
Throw is a 10 frame high and punishes block.
D2 is 9 frame start up and high.

So how do we correct this? Use a mid that is 16 frames or faster after D1 or just D1 infinitely till they block. The strongest players force people to do an option wether it's block or jump or attack.

Forcing an option brings predictability, if you can 100 percent without doubt know what your opponent is going to do, you shouldn't never lose.

Bad players are predictable. Combos can be learned quickly and in actuality just serve to shift risk reward balance. They aren't a measure of how good players are. It is the reason why good players are always good. They make good decisions and are used to doing it constantly.

Readjust your practice habits to focus on landing a first hit if you don't already.
Play people to learn instead of falling back on "tech" to win. Minimize your damage to see how well you are actually playing a match up.

 

[SumdoodGotBeats]

I have no idea how people already know so many match ups already. I don't even think I have fought against the entire cast yet lol

Anyway yeah I feel like no matter what you are going to come across people who play in a way you aren't familiar with and there is no shame in losing to it since you have to fight it before you can figure out to counter it, right?

Thank you for ranked sets. Figure out their bullshit and mop the floor with them after you get into THEIR head.

 

[TheW1tchDoctor]

How many times has this happen to you? (Esp this week of MK11) Uppercuts, no juggle combos, no footise, no fundamentals, jumping, etc... There are multiple factors that contribute this type of behavior like lag, luck, lack of character knowledge, etc...

I'm sure we've all played like this when we first touched a fighting game but when we progress and grind we become more advance so when we enter online we expect our opponent to know what their doing.

I'm a tad bit salty and angry, more depressed right now loosing to someone who only uppercut and zoned me. And with my main too. It was 2-0. They went from Jade to Geras to my main Skarlet.

Because you are custom to playing at an advance style with footsie and fundamentals, by coming across an online individual with nothing whatsoever your forced to play "scruby" OR you can zone. So does this aspect of the fighting game grind actually contribute to you becoming a better fighter? Forcing to lower your mindset just for the sake of defeating a newbie?

Have you lost to a newbie when you shouldn't have? (Lowkey I know I'm not alone on this)

Am I looking way 2 deep into this?

Don't think of it as playing scrubby. In fighting games, in order to use advance options youneed to train your opponent. Good players will know your options sk you can often skip this part, but unknowledgable players will require work.

Trying to mix-up a 'scrubby' player is literally a hazard to you. Often they will always choose the most robust options their character have, even if they are predictable or punishable. The result is your measured play gets punished by their abuses.

Instead, train them to play the way you want. You aren't being a scrub, youre intentionally manipulating their behavior. If that means spam your over head, then do it. You can't play a mix-up game if the habitually block low, so first you must break them of this habit.

Same goes for their spam. If they are just chaining teleports, just block and punish. Do it until theyre scared shitless of teleporting and then continue to play normally.

 

[FanTalk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1123071169345806337

 

[Methysan]

I don't have any specific MK 11 advice as I suck and just started, but I've answered similar questions about this on DBFZ. Here goes:


1. You might not be as good as you think you are. This is the hard truth and I don't mean to offend you, but it's always a good idea to look at yourself first and learn from your losses. You're never above learning and improving. It's also early on in the game and everyone learns at their own pace.


2. 'Higher level' players aren't above losing to 'scrubby tactics' on occasion. See Gandhi vs. FSP at Dreamhack 2013 for reference. However, if that is truly the case, it is on you, the higher level player to recognize what is going on, not lose your cool, and adapt. Part of that adaption might include "dumbing down" your play in certain ways. For example, there's no need to run your level 2 or 3 yomi mixups if your opponent never blocks the level 1 mix. If they never do a wake up attack, just keep hitting them meaty and don't bother baiting anything. If they want to constantly mash uppercut, let them do it and punish. And don't assume they'll stop doing it once you punish them once, twice, even ten times. Keep doing what works until it doesn't. Don't try to adapt before they do.

2.5 Don't get rattled by what might appear to be them making amazing reads when it could be just luck. If you try to throw him 3 times in a row and he's mashing uppercut no matter what, he can look like a genius.


3. Learning how to beat these players is an important skill because if you ever go to a big tournament, pools will be full of people like this. Beating basic tactics like fireball + uppercut needs to become second nature and auto pilot if you want to win the pot.

 

[Rpgz]

Wasn't jumping. It was an uppercut after every string I tried to open them

use safe strings on block dude fighting game 101 you sound like a scrub tbh

 

[CrimsonShadow]

In order to get better, you have to realize that there's only stuff that doesn't work, and stuff that works. YOU are the one who has the power to let it work or not work, based on your reaction to it.

To improve, you need to realize that you are not playing against the meta of the game -- you are playing against the other player. This means that against any player, good/bad, you need to take note of what they do and when, so that you can put yourself out of harm's way and capitalize.

If you are not actually analyzing what the other player is doing, and instead only preparing to react to what you want them to do, or what you think they should do, you are not playing fighting games at an 'advanced' level, period.

You mention footsies and fundamentals -- but you're missing that this IS one of the biggest fundamentals. If you are not able to deal with a 'scrubby' player in a way that makes sense, your fundamentals aren't as good as you thought they were.

There are certain basic 'switches' in my mind that go off within one round when I see someone playing a certain way.

• They're jumping a lot? Getting ready to anti air, or walk back and trip guard them.
• They're hitting buttons a lot when they're negative? Getting ready to full combo them the next time I block something.
• They're mashing pokes? Getting ready to counter poke the next one I block and go ham, or walk back, or throw them.
• They're sitting there just blocking? Getting ready to throw them next time they just sit there turtling.
• They're hitting a button in close after every knockdown? Going to use the wake up until they learn.
• They're waking up every time? Getting ready to walk back just out of range and whiff punish or time a jump over it.
• They're using punishable stuff? Just going to wait and let them hang themselves.
• They're just randomly tossing projectiles without timing it? Getting ready to time a jump in for a full combo. Or just walk in patiently, take note of the distance where they switch from zoning to something else, and and interrupt them before they get it off.
• Etc.

A known part of fighting games is that you must make players respect you. It's earned, not given. So if someone isn't respecting your style of play, it's up to YOU to change, not them.

 

[Buster Skruggs]

I have been there lol but dosent happen much anymore. Best I can tell ya if they are waking up with uppercut then just throw your best mid starter out. I have one a few matches just using f4 with Johnny cage lol. Just kept throwing out the knee they never blocked it kept uppercutting.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

To me it's funny when you do lets say a +6 string and go to continue pressure then get d2 noob scyth. This is the only thing the bothers me is it seems d2 has 1st priority over alot of moves.

Playing as johnny it happens more as alot of his moves start high but if I switch to jax it happens about 90% less of the time.

Call me a scrub whatever just something I noticed.

 

[LordSativa001]

How the hell do you deal with scorpion 50/50s in this game.. Its ridiculous honestly. And Geras is OP. Pick him up ASAP for sure just keep in mind to use Sand Trap (MB), Gauntlet of Aegis(optional I just like it), and Bed of Spikes (MB). Insane damage potential.

 

[TyCarter35]

Honestly if ur tilted sometimes just going to character select and taking a moment to think things through can go a long way. I did this in I2 a lot especially during sets where I'm not sure what I want to do next match or switching a stage. It can help a lot

 

[NaCl man]

Why is your opponent a scrub for beating you and using what works?

 

[Juggs]

Never saw this thread before.

This has been a complaint ever since I got into competitive fighters with UMK3 back in 2007. A normally good to even great player would lose to a player who was seemingly worse, who did random things that worked.

There’s two different things that will help you vs all skill levels and types of players.

The first is knowing the categories or archetypes of players, and knowing how to identify them. This is something Daigo said awhile back and it helped me a lot.

What this means is, if a player is YOLO’ing random stuff, mashing, etc, you would categorize their gameplay as high risk (or whatever category you want to assign to it, the name isn’t too important). So you have to play your game according to your opponents archetype. If they are the random high risk player, you have to expect them to do completely random shit that makes no sense. If you’re not used to playing someone like this, it can be difficult to adapt to. That’s why being able to identify what type of player your opponent is can be extremely beneficial. What you should do vs certain archetypes is best learned through experience. It also would take ages to type out, lol.

The second thing you need to do is really define and develop your fundamentals. If you have super solid fundamentals, a bad player will almost never be able to beat you. Easier said than done of course. Again, explaining everything that encompasses fundamentals would take forever, but you get the idea.

Learn these two things, and then apply them. I know it’s not very detailed advice, but sorry, really all I got right now. I’m serious it would take me about an hour worth of writing to go into detail, lol

 

[Ayx]

How the hell do you deal with scorpion 50/50s in this game.. Its ridiculous honestly. And Geras is OP. Pick him up ASAP for sure just keep in mind to use Sand Trap (MB), Gauntlet of Aegis(optional I just like it), and Bed of Spikes (MB). Insane damage potential.

Wow thanks bro I would have never known that Geras was OP two months into the game w/ a Geras representing Top 8 almost 90% of the tournaments so far.

 

[Kenshi-Keanu-Kool]

How many times has this happen to you? (Esp this week of MK11) Uppercuts, no juggle combos, no footise, no fundamentals, jumping, etc... There are multiple factors that contribute this type of behavior like lag, luck, lack of character knowledge, etc...

I'm sure we've all played like this when we first touched a fighting game but when we progress and grind we become more advance so when we enter online we expect our opponent to know what their doing.

I'm a tad bit salty and angry, more depressed right now loosing to someone who only uppercut and zoned me. And with my main too. It was 2-0. They went from Jade to Geras to my main Skarlet.

Because you are custom to playing at an advance style with footsie and fundamentals, by coming across an online individual with nothing whatsoever your forced to play "scruby" OR you can zone. So does this aspect of the fighting game grind actually contribute to you becoming a better fighter? Forcing to lower your mindset just for the sake of defeating a newbie?

Have you lost to a newbie when you shouldn't have? (Lowkey I know I'm not alone on this)

Am I looking way 2 deep into this?

This is a much interesting topic . And i agreed with everything you say . Of course , the TYM " GODS " will show up with their fantastic logics and one liners like " if you lose to a Scrub your the scrub " or Go in the lab " level up , get better BLA BLA !! The USUALL SUSPECTS .
It happens to me all the time in MK11 . This is why i think MK 11 its a SCRUB NOOB GAME . Crushing Blows kill the game . its the most stupid thing in the game . Footsies and neutral , witch is always what people are so obsessed with , become irrelevant , because this guy , who doesnt even knows how to play , just hit you with an uppercut , got you with a intractable , and then a grab and your dead lol How is that FIGHTING LOOOL
Just like Master Yoda said " YOU MUST UNLEARN WHAT YOU HAVE LEARN !!!!
In other words , this game makes you to play very Noobish and simple . And no , its not just a different game or mechanic . Its like playing SF 4 and then you have to comeback to play as SF 2 FROM 1992 LOOL

 

[MashiroTamigi]

I love how the opponent that "hit a d2, a KB a FB a Throw a combo, a parry, a read, a jump in" is alwaaaaaays the scrub right?


Just take that sweeeeet d2 to the faceeeeeeeeeeeee and never come back

 

[S+ Main]

This is a much interesting topic . And i agreed with everything you say . Of course , the TYM " GODS " will show up with their fantastic logics and one liners like " if you lose to a Scrub your the scrub " or Go in the lab " level up , get better BLA BLA !! The USUALL SUSPECTS .
It happens to me all the time in MK11 . This is why i think MK 11 its a SCRUB NOOB GAME . Crushing Blows kill the game . its the most stupid thing in the game . Footsies and neutral , witch is always what people are so obsessed with , become irrelevant , because this guy , who doesnt even knows how to play , just hit you with an uppercut , got you with a intractable , and then a grab and your dead lol How is that FIGHTING LOOOL
Just like Master Yoda said " YOU MUST UNLEARN WHAT YOU HAVE LEARN !!!!
In other words , this game makes you to play very Noobish and simple . And no , its not just a different game or mechanic . Its like playing SF 4 and then you have to comeback to play as SF 2 FROM 1992 LOOL

I felt that.

 

[Kenshi-Keanu-Kool]

I love how the opponent that "hit a d2, a KB a FB a Throw a combo, a parry, a read, a jump in" is alwaaaaaays the scrub right?


Just take that sweeeeet d2 to the faceeeeeeeeeeeee and never come back

Typical scrub answer . Take that sweet D2 to the face !! Exactly Einstein . Thats how easy it is to lose in this game .
i bet you are a killer playing DIVE KICK LOOOOOOL