Rate Your Character! (Mortal Kombat 11 Edition)

[Wetdoba]

I've played Bone Picker in tournament and tried to make him work, but he's not that good, especially after Command Grab's being able to be punished by D2 KBs.

I gave him a 4/5 because his offense is high risk. If I go for a tick throw and they neutral duck, I get punished for a full combo. Sure you can stagger B3 or do F4 pressure but he isn't as good as say Jacqui Briggs offense. 112 can be flawless blocked btw as most of my training partners have been doing forever. 2 1+3 is super slow and has pushback so its not like you are going to make use of the plus frames, although I do use it a lot to catch people trying to whiff punish 2. To be clear his offense is still really good, 4/5 is more than a lot of characters and Marauder. But 5/5 should be reserved for characters with safe pressure and mixups like Geras, Erron, and Jacqui.

I'd maybe give one more point for Defense because Spines are a great AA. The rest has nothing to do with defense. DF1 is a huge defensive tool that spines can't make up for. Spines is good, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't say it moves up defense two point.

I could maybe see 1 more in anti-zoning for spines, maybe. Most players who know the matchup stop throwing air projectiles when they get in spines range so you won't be hitting them with it and against characters like Jade or Cetrion getting to that range is the hard part. I will say Bone Picker is slightly better against zoning characters, but not by much. Those are rough for him in either variation.

Overall though 20/25 is way too high, that's where Marauder is imo and Bone Picker is not nearly as good as much as I want it to be. There is a reason guys like DJT who were playing Bone Picker switched to Marauder, it is the better variation plain and simple. I could maybe give Bone Picker 17/25 to show that he is still a high/mid tier character, but the more i've played him and seen people get used to the matchup the harder it has been to make him work.

But the flawless block gap can be closed by cancelling 11 or f21 into spine burst or cancelled into command grab because both are ticks, these 2 strings get infinitely better with those added mind games where as with marauder its either flawless block or stagger. With bone picker both strings double their options by allowing for flawless blockable plus frames, stagger, safe block string, tick throw. The safety and mix are both there, he can play 100% safe and only take the risks when he wants to, just like Geras or others.

Also if people arent jumping against bone picker then spine burst has already done its job because the move is so good even the threat of it makes people stop doing jump projectiles which only opens them up to his ground game more.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

After actually sitting down and thinking instead of pulling things out of my ass to semi-troll here's my serious numbers:

Baraka:
Offense: 4/5
Defense: 3.5/5
Neutral/footsies: 4/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 3.5/5
Damage: 5/5

Total: 20/25

Noob:
Offense: 3.5/5
Defense: 4/5
Neutral/footsies: 4/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 3.5/5
Damage: 5/5

Total: 20/25


Geras:
Offense: 4.5/5
Defense: 4/5
Neutral/footsies: 5/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 5/5
Damage: 4.5/5

Total: 23/25


Raiden:
Offense: 3/5
Defense: 3/5
Neutral/footsies: 3/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 4/5
Damage: 4/5

Total: 17/25

Kabal
Offense: 4.5/5
Defense: 4/5
Neutral/footsies: 5/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 4/5
Damage: 3/5

Total: 20.5/25


@M2Dave , better ya fool?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

As said by some of you guys, I don’t think these scores necessarily correlate to tier position. I think SZ is a great character, better than what I’m scoring him implies, but these are my honest opinions.

Sub-Zero Thin Ice

Offense: 3/5
Neutral: 4/5
Defense: 2/5
Zoning/anti zoning 4.5/5
Damage: 4/5
Total: 17.5/25

Sub-Zero Dead of Winter

Offense: 4/5
Neutral: 3.5/5
Defense: 2/5
Zoning/anti zoning: 4/5
Damage: 3.5/5
Total: 17/25

Johnny Cage Shock Jock

Offense: 3.5/5
Neutral: 4/5
Defense: 3/5
Zoning: 3/5
Damage: 3/5
Total: 16.5/25

 

[Matix218]

After actually sitting down and thinking instead of pulling things out of my ass to semi-troll here's my serious numbers:

Baraka:
Offense: 4/5
Defense: 3.5/5
Neutral/footsies: 4/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 3.5/5
Damage: 5/5

Total: 20/25

Noob:
Offense: 3.5/5
Defense: 4/5
Neutral/footsies: 4/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 3.5/5
Damage: 4/5

Total: 19/25


Geras:
Offense: 4.5/5
Defense: 4/5
Neutral/footsies: 5/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 5/5
Damage: 4.5/5

Total: 23/25


Raiden:
Offense: 3/5
Defense: 3/5
Neutral/footsies: 3/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 4/5
Damage: 4/5

Total: 17/25

Kabal
Offense: 4.5/5
Defense: 4/5
Neutral/footsies: 5/5
Zoning/Anti Zoning: 4/5
Damage: 3/5

Total: 20.5/25


@M2Dave , better ya fool?

How is noob not 5/5 in damage?

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

How is noob not 5/5 in damage?

Misprint

 

[Zoidberg747]

But the flawless block gap can be closed by cancelling 11 or f21 into spine burst or cancelled into command grab because both are ticks, these 2 strings get infinitely better with those added mind games where as with marauder its either flawless block or stagger. With bone picker both strings double their options by allowing for flawless blockable plus frames, stagger, safe block string, tick throw. The safety and mix are both there, he can play 100% safe and only take the risks when he wants to, just like Geras or others.

Also if people arent jumping against bone picker then spine burst has already done its job because the move is so good even the threat of it makes people stop doing jump projectiles which only opens them up to his ground game more.

Sure, but then what? If you cancel into spines your at -7 and your turn is over (it's not like Geras who can use a 6f d1 to check anyone trying to take their turn). If you do a tick throw and they read it you get full combo punished, if they guess wrong you get a 12% command grab and play the wakeup guessing game (which Bone Picker is really good at playing, for what it's worth). Tick throw is never staying safe, and if you stay safe the whole time you lose your pressure and any real offensive capabilities. If you want to succeed with Bone Picker you have to take risks because you need to get them knocked down to where he really shines which is oki. The difference between him and someone like Geras is Geras has the same oki pressure while doing way more damage.

I agree Spines is a good AA, but my point was more that a lot of characters don't need to use jump projectiles against him. Cetrion can do fine once he gets in range just mixing up boulder timings to push him back, and can even teleport out if he gets too close. Jade can use her ground zoning to stop him and keep him right outside of footsie range so he can't apply his offense. Scorpion doesn't need to randomly air teleport against him, he can just play footsies and utilize his staggers or go for grounded tele pressure.

I should also mention like others that I don't think these criteria accurately represent a character's strength (I don't blame Dave's criteria, they are solid. There's just too many factors to account for in a neat package). For example I think Marauder has some issues in some of these areas too but it honestly doesn't matter because all I need is 3 or so touches and you're dead. This is what covers up a majority of Marauder's weaknesses. In Bone Picker it takes 8-9 touches before they are dead and a lot of that is using blood lunge which if read can be full combo punished. Bone Picker also has the issue of struggling against zoning but the difference is when he gets in he can do maybe 28% if he gets to the corner, whereas Marauder can do 50%+ to completely negate any damage that was previously done. This is why Bone Picker is the worse variation, because while it has much better offensive options it still suffers the same issues as Marauder but can't cover them with ridiculous damaging combos.

 

[M2Dave]

I think adding a new category related to the viability of the character in tournament, ranging from 1 to 10.

Good idea. However, I dislike including anything match up related to these categories. The moment you start introducing match ups you may as well create a match up chart. I guess the purpose of this rating system is to provide an outline of each character by listing basic strategies, strengths, and weaknesses. The system is imperfect so some final ratings may be slightly inaccurate. However, if people are not downplaying, or up playing in rarer circumstances, the higher the number the better the character and the lower the number the worse the character.

 

[Wetdoba]

Sure, but then what? If you cancel into spines your at -7 and your turn is over (it's not like Geras who can use a 6f d1 to check anyone trying to take their turn). If you do a tick throw and they read it you get full combo punished, if they guess wrong you get a 12% command grab and play the wakeup guessing game (which Bone Picker is really good at playing, for what it's worth). Tick throw is never staying safe, and if you stay safe the whole time you lose your pressure and any real offensive capabilities. If you want to succeed with Bone Picker you have to take risks because you need to get them knocked down to where he really shines which is oki. The difference between him and someone like Geras is Geras has the same oki pressure while doing way more damage.

I agree Spines is a good AA, but my point was more that a lot of characters don't need to use jump projectiles against him. Cetrion can do fine once he gets in range just mixing up boulder timings to push him back, and can even teleport out if he gets too close. Jade can use her ground zoning to stop him and keep him right outside of footsie range so he can't apply his offense. Scorpion doesn't need to randomly air teleport against him, he can just play footsies and utilize his staggers or go for grounded tele pressure.

I should also mention like others that I don't think these criteria accurately represent a character's strength (I don't blame Dave's criteria, they are solid. There's just too many factors to account for in a neat package). For example I think Marauder has some issues in some of these areas too but it honestly doesn't matter because all I need is 3 or so touches and you're dead. This is what covers up a majority of Marauder's weaknesses. In Bone Picker it takes 8-9 touches before they are dead and a lot of that is using blood lunge which if read can be full combo punished. Bone Picker also has the issue of struggling against zoning but the difference is when he gets in he can do maybe 28% if he gets to the corner, whereas Marauder can do 50%+ to completely negate any damage that was previously done. This is why Bone Picker is the worse variation, because while it has much better offensive options it still suffers the same issues as Marauder but can't cover them with ridiculous damaging combos.

Your complaint was that he was not safe but thrn with the option to be safe on everything suddenly its not good because its not his turn? Is spine burst suppose to be 0 lol

You are also massively underselling command grab. If someone is wanting to do command grab literally half the time then yeah id imagine being absurdly predictable like that would get you blown up, just like any other character, such as Geras, if he were to go for throw half the time. It is the exact same scenario where throw does less damage than the potential punish on a read, does that make Geras throws bad? No. Also add in the fact that Baraka has SEVEN tick throws for his ADVANCING command grab on top of his staggers and plus frames and good footsie buttons that will krushing blow you at the same range and his command grab becomes stupid hard to predict if used right.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

Good idea. However, I dislike including anything match up related to these categories. The moment you start introducing match ups you may as well create a match up chart. I guess the purpose of this rating system is to provide an outline of each character by listing basic strategies, strengths, and weaknesses. The system is imperfect so some final ratings may be slightly inaccurate. However, if people are not downplaying, or up playing in rarer circumstances, the higher the number the better the character and the lower the number the worse the character.

I agree. I think we should take into account the character and the character only and not their tools against other characters.

So far it seems that every character has good tools in some way or another but some of the variations need tinkering to not make them useless (Erron blacks second one for example).

 

[Zoidberg747]

Your complaint was that he was not safe but thrn with the option to be safe on everything suddenly its not good because its not his turn? Is spine burst suppose to be 0 lol

You are also massively underselling command grab. If someone is wanting to do command grab literally half the time then yeah id imagine being absurdly predictable like that would get you blown up, just like any other character, such as Geras, if he were to go for throw half the time. It is the exact same scenario where throw does less damage than the potential punish on a read, does that make Geras throws bad? No. Also add in the fact that Baraka has SEVEN tick throws for his ADVANCING command grab on top of his staggers and plus frames and good footsie buttons that will krushing blow you at the same range and his command grab becomes stupid hard to predict if used right.

I mean it isn't a prediction necessarily, it's a mixup. If I B3 someone who knows the matchup they guess whether I will finish the string or command grab and act accordingly. You won't be throwing out command grab in neutral. I don't think Bone Picker needs buffs or even that his offense is bad, it's not. But I wouldn't put it at a 5/5 because characters like Erron, Jacqui, and Geras have great pressure that is for the most part completely safe and doesn't have holes, while Bone Picker does not.

I don't know where I undersell command grab, I said straight up if you pick this variation you have to use it all the time, it's the main point of the variation. I am fully aware how good command grab is, especially on oki as I have played this variation a lot. I also think he's probably high mid and somewhat viable, but Marauder is better and if you really like tick throws then quite frankly New Era Geras is a much better option.