Should pokes be more negative on block?

[Qwark28]

You know if Sonya player just holds up after d1 on hit there, she beats literally all those options jacqui does for a full combo?

bUt dAts wHen yOu dO a sTring

and thats when they mash through it because not every character is 9f mid jacqui. By the time you realize d1 hits you have a split second window to follow up with your double digit mid. on top of this being training mode, not a real match where people do all kinds of shit at different timings and things arent static. Why cant I just hit my d1 hitconfirm into my my mid? Why do I have to try so hard just to get someone to block

Lets just face it. The mashing in this game is ugly, scrubby and too effective. Nobody wants to block because why would they when squirming around risking a 1% d1 is worst case scenario. Basically this game people play where a person will d1 and block after is operating on some honor system. Just d1 again and again until it hits. It techs throws too! You are playing the game wrong game by blocking at - frames, seriously lol

And you know what's the biggest fucking joke? D1s being -4 + prejump frames means that if you D1 back you don't even catch them airborne into a combo, they're still fucking grounded.

If kotal wants to do anything about people doing things after his D1 on hit, he has to do a 5% dmg 15f move, otherwise the opponent gets a mixup between either neutral jump you for full combo or D2 KB you for 400 dmg. You get a D1 or a 18% ex command grab.

 

[santanabar]

Agree with op, rofl @ guys pretending that this is a scrub thing. Frame data is 100% real only in offline games. Online poke mashing is a thing, we even see pro players do it.

 

[B. Shazzy]

And you know what's the biggest fucking joke? D1s being -4 + prejump frames means that if you D1 back you don't even catch them airborne into a combo, they're still fucking grounded.

If kotal wants to do anything about people doing things after his D1 on hit, he has to do a 5% dmg 15f move, otherwise the opponent gets a mixup between either neutral jump you for full combo or D2 KB you for 400 dmg. You get a D1 or a 18% ex command grab.

Exactly you have to consider jumping as poke in these games because holding up is your fastest reversal option. On top of gdlk jump kicks allowing jumping just to work out 9/10 and low risk nature of being hit by anything but a slow ass string. A clean, reliable meaty using a string requires insane hyper focus due to double digit mids, clunky nrs block stun and block button stuff. Being at + and - frames feels like the exact same thing.

I remember at the begining of the game fighting Geras, his wakeup U2 felt super safe on block... then you go to the lab and its like - double digits lol. Things that are negative dont look or feel like it and I think that’s a factor with the poke game too. Low block stun and low hit stun makes it stressful

 

[Gaxkang]

"Should pokes be more negative on block?"

I guess it depends if you want a D1fest or not.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

So from my understanding the 7 frame move is active on frame 7. The reason you cant use this move to punish someone who is at -7 is because 7 frames later (same frame your attack becomes active) puts them at +/-0 and block becomes active on this frame.
Blocking or coming out of block has no startup. Same thing with crouching (the status of being crouched i.e. blocking lows, not actually crouching low) and standing. So using the same -7 on block scenario you can use a 6 frame standing move to punish even if you were crouch blocking.
Edit:

If this is the case then the point is effectively the same in my post.

I don't want the meta to be ruined. The way it is there is a back and forth. Poke on block doesn't garantee another poke. Making them -7 will garantee a poke on hit into jailing starters.
I don't like this idea. I'm fine with how they are because there are universal counters to pokes and certainly mashing.
If it was -7 on block we wouldn't have counter poke counter poke on reads anymore because it would be far to risky to poke since blocking it would garantee on hit follow up.
If you wanna change -3 on block 6f D1's to let's say -5. Be my guest because it won't ruin the current meta.
MK11 is different from previous games with the poke war and I like this mind game and have adapted to it.
Others just need to practice it up to know thier options.

Right now pokes are good checks not Punishers and I'm glad they aren't. What I meant by -7 on block will remove the walk back wiff punish aspect is the counter poke, counter poke won't exsist if it was that risky. It's scary that people are trying to make pokes unsafe on block. They are pokes not 14% normals that go into combo. They are block checks.
Throws override pokes, it's s universal counter and it's part of the meta. There are many other ways to punish thier pokes, if they decide to do two consecutive pokes, you block the first one and walk back and full combo punish, or counter poke to follow up with fastest starter usually standing 1 which jails.

There isn't anything cheap about them but maybe a 6 frame poke shouldn't be -3 on block. Make it -5 and I'll be fine with that cuz it won't destroy the poke war meta.

In regards to some saying a mash poke meta exists online: if you are playing in lag then they probably can mash D1 but you don't change frame data based off online lag ever.

 

[The Slaj Jazz]

I encounter this a lot online usually with Geras players

 

[MagicMan357]

You guys are so bad it hilarious

 

[Professor Oak]

You guys are so bad it hilarious

Wanna play a long set on PSN later tonight?

 

[B. Shazzy]

Wanna play a long set on PSN later tonight?

Dont waste your time with that bum. It has nothing to do with being good or bad its just the facts. Ive been at least top 20 ranked since the game dropped, meaning I get matchmade to the more dedicated players all the time. Everyone mashes something or other its how the game is

 

[Rodney Quillz]

You guys are so bad it hilarious

NRS shill #42070

 

[GODLIKE OBI]

I don't want the meta to be ruined. The way it is there is a back and forth. Poke on block doesn't garantee another poke. Making them -7 will garantee a poke on hit into jailing starters.
I don't like this idea. I'm fine with how they are because there are universal counters to pokes and certainly mashing.
If it was -7 on block we wouldn't have counter poke counter poke on reads anymore because it would be far to risky to poke since blocking it would garantee on hit follow up.
If you wanna change -3 on block 6f D1's to let's say -5. Be my guest because it won't ruin the current meta.
MK11 is different from previous games with the poke war and I like this mind game and have adapted to it.
Others just need to practice it up to know thier options.

Right now pokes are good checks not Punishers and I'm glad they aren't. What I meant by -7 on block will remove the walk back wiff punish aspect is the counter poke, counter poke won't exsist if it was that risky. It's scary that people are trying to make pokes unsafe on block. They are pokes not 14% normals that go into combo. They are block checks.
Throws override pokes, it's s universal counter and it's part of the meta. There are many other ways to punish thier pokes, if they decide to do two consecutive pokes, you block the first one and walk back and full combo punish, or counter poke to follow up with fastest starter usually standing 1 which jails.

There isn't anything cheap about them but maybe a 6 frame poke shouldn't be -3 on block. Make it -5 and I'll be fine with that cuz it won't destroy the poke war meta.

In regards to some saying a mash poke meta exists online: if you are playing in lag then they probably can mash D1 but you don't change frame data based off online lag ever.

I just dont understand what's so enjoyable about the current poke war when you already get to jail with some of best strings in the game on hit. There is low risk for using pokes which is why they are so easy to use and used so often. A little bit of balance in the decision to press these buttons or not seems like a good idea to me.
And I know, everyone will just repeat themselves with all the "great options" they have against pokes but the fact is that nothing is guaranteed and you're trying to play at a way more involved level than 90% of people who will throw the poke because why not? It also seems to me that people who are against pokes being punished by pokes use the argument that pokes dont do any damage. Well yes, but that works both ways. Using the poke as an actual effective tool rather than "you're close so this is the button I press" to gain a frame advantage situation seems like a more balanced up close meta.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

"U dOnT sEe MaShInG iN hIGh LeVeL"

Lmaaaoo bro I'm at 8# on ranked. I fought A LOT of high level players and everyone is mashing all the time.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I just dont understand what's so enjoyable about the current poke war when you already get to jail with some of best strings in the game on hit. There is low risk for using pokes which is why they are so easy to use and used so often. A little bit of balance in the decision to press these buttons or not seems like a good idea to me.
And I know, everyone will just repeat themselves with all the "great options" they have against pokes but the fact is that nothing is guaranteed and you're trying to play at a way more involved level than 90% of people who will throw the poke because why not? It also seems to me that people who are against pokes being punished by pokes use the argument that pokes dont do any damage. Well yes, but that works both ways. Using the poke as an actual effective tool rather than "you're close so this is the button I press" to gain a frame advantage situation seems like a more balanced up close meta.

If you're mindlessly tossing out pokes you're going to get thrown, whiff punished, etc. by anyone who's actually good at the meta of the game.

People keep saying this as if there's no downside, but there is, and you find that out very quickly if you play someone good.

This game punishes people who don't use good fundamentals. All the stuff we used to get away with in NRS games that people like Chris G would walk in and expose, which was then counteracted by us being so loaded with the meta and tech of the games that someone like Chris G didn't have a chance, is now coming back into focus.

Chris was exploiting people doing stuff like this and not thinking years ago with Green Arrow. Now we've all gotta learn, and people are crying the blues because they actually have to think rather than using their habitual reply after blocking a poke.

 

[GODLIKE OBI]

If you're mindlessly tossing out pokes you're going to get thrown, whiff punished, etc. by anyone who's actually good at the meta of the game.

People keep saying this as if there's no downside, but there is, and you find that out very quickly if you play someone good.

This game punishes people who don't use good fundamentals. All the stuff we used to get away with in NRS games that people like Chris G would walk in at expose, which was then counteracted by us being so good at the meta and tech of the games that someone like Chris G didn't have a chance, is now coming back into focus.

Yeah yeah, I get it. You guys are beating a dead horse with your side of the argument. My point is that its dumb and looks even dumber. Even if someone punishes the guy mashing pokes, it doesn't happen immediately. You get hit by a d1, you going to deal with 2 more right after. This is everytime you're close to each other.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yeah yeah, I get it. You guys are beating a dead horse with your side of the argument. My point is that its dumb and looks even dumber. Even if someone punishes the guy mashing pokes, it doesn't happen immediately. You get hit by a d1, you going to deal with 2 more right after. This is everytime you're close to each other.

Because you're saying stuff that doesn't make sense. If you're letting somebody press d1 3 times in a row every time you're close, you're not playing or learning the meta of the game. If someone hits you with a d1 and immediately presses 2 more they also don't have a clue what they're doing in MK11.

 

[GODLIKE OBI]

@CrimsonShadow
Just because people want something changed doesn't make them bad or incapable of playing the game at "le high level like me"
The truth is that you guys are the vocal minority on the topic, just look at the poll. An arrogant minority at that.
I get the poke meta. I play into the poke meta. I just dont like it.

 

[HeavyNorse]

This site is a minority. Whatever the poll results are, it doesn't really matter. It's not gonna change anything.

 

[GODLIKE OBI]

This site is a minority. Whatever the poll results are, it doesn't really matter. It's not gonna change anything.

LBSH. You know this game will be changed in the next few months, it's an NRS title. Let history be the judge of whether or not TYM had any say in the matter.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Yeah not liking something doesnt mean we dont know what we’re doing. I didnt like people mashing armor in mkx randomly but that doesnt mean I didnt know how to blow it up. And guess what? They took that scrubby meta out of the game for mk11 ( except for scrubby fatal blows of course) and good riddance.

This site is a minority. Whatever the poll results are, it doesn't really matter. It's not gonna change anything.

Thanks for your opinion. You dont even play the game by the competitive standard. What are you even doing here? This isn’t casual kustom mode or build a bear outfit discussion lol. Nrs testers frequent this site and there are plenty of examples of nrs patches being influenced by the community

 

[Temp]

@CrimsonShadow
Just because people want something changed doesn't make them bad or incapable of playing the game at "le high level like me"
The truth is that you guys are the vocal minority on the topic, just look at the poll. An arrogant minority at that.
I get the poke meta. I play into the poke meta. I just dont like it.

I feel like that doesn’t address the point, though: why are you and the rest letting opponents mash three pokes in row? That makes me suspect of the non-vocal majority’s ability to play the game properly.

 

[HeavyNorse]

lol

Fair enough. Nice avatar, btw.

 

[Temp]

Thanks for your opinion. You dont even play the game by the competitive standard. What are you even doing here? This isn’t casual kustom mode or build a bear outfit discussion lol.

Says the guy complaining about single-hit attacks that are negative on block.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

You know if Sonya player just holds up after d1 on hit there, she beats literally all those options jacqui does for a full combo?

bUt dAts wHen yOu dO a sTring

and thats when they mash through it because not every character is 9f mid jacqui. By the time you realize d1 hits you have a split second window to follow up with your double digit mid. on top of this being training mode, not a real match where people do all kinds of shit at different timings and things arent static. Why cant I just hit my d1 hitconfirm into my my mid? Why do I have to try so hard just to get someone to block

If the Sonya player is holding up then just stand up and s1 her into a full combo. Or d2 her. Like, d1 and then jumping is a complete issue than mindlessly/repeatedly mashing d1, which is what this thread was about.

 

[GODLIKE OBI]

I feel like that doesn’t address the point, though: why are you and the rest letting opponents mash three pokes in row? That makes me suspect of the non-vocal majority’s ability to play the game properly.

Ok let's use a scenario. You get hit by d1. The opponent is now +11 or something. You now have to block or hard read a throw. So you block, the opponent throws out another d1 however you weren't waiting for d1 specifically, you just knew you had to respect the follow up. So you block d1 #2 but you just so happened to miss a 5 frame window to throw a poke back. Here comes d1 #3.
Now i would be willing to bet all you pro forum guys have dealt with poke mashing with less than precise response time once or twice. Am I right about that?

 

[MagicMan357]

NRS shill #42070

Scrub