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Cetrion General Discussion Thread

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Deleted member 5032

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Interesting. Gonna have to give it a test run, as I wrote it off right away. Now that people are punching/FLB the wall, it's getting near useless in long sets. I was hesitant before because Rock Orb replaces Wall, but now it doesn't seem like it matters much. I expect this to be the case long term too once everyone's MU Exp catches up.

My big thing was losing Geyser, but if Earthquake is good enough it could be a nice trade off with that and orb. Geyser and Teleport is a really good combo though so I'd have to give it a fair shake lol.
Earthquake jails after boulder just like geyser, but due to the double hit, it can catch a lot of jumpers. It’s only -15 and adds a nice 50/50 option to her f34(?) string. It even jails into itself on hit if your timing is good; you literally have to respect it every time you’re hit by it. And yeah, it lowers her hithox so it can effectively counterzone some characters. You lose some combo potential, but you’ll hit a lot more than geyser, you’ll gain a 50/50, and you still have her tentacle grab to extend combos. You also gain a good teabag feint, which makes it look like you’re going to ground pound, making your opponent turtle up or jump.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Earthquake jails after boulder just like geyser, but due to the double hit, it can catch a lot of jumpers. It’s only -15 and adds a nice 50/50 option to her f34(?) string. It even jails into itself on hit if your timing is good; you literally have to respect it every time you’re hit by it. And yeah, it lowers her hithox so it can effectively counterzone some characters. You lose some combo potential, but you’ll hit a lot more than geyser, you’ll gain a 50/50, and you still have her tentacle grab to extend combos. You also gain a good teabag feint, which makes it look like you’re going to ground pound, making your opponent turtle up or jump.
Double interesting. I think I'll start with it tomorrow then to gauge it's potential. I've been a bit religious to the control that away teleport gives you in MUs and the full screen conversions.

Psa about the earthquake. the second hit does not jail. if you block the earthquake you can jump out before the second hit
Lol dammit mang, can we get some Erron Black love or what?! Who designs these things? #PauloPlease
 

Elias6999

Mournful Master
WTF lol does Dizzy not know this MU? Why does he keep jumping so much? And why doesn't he abuse rings which gives Cetrion a massive headache (Scar for example has highlighted this). Gameplay was a bit off from what I expected.
I’m surprised tbh, anyone could notice that you can lock Cetrion down with a fast projectile given they start up in like 70 frames lol
 

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
All this conversation about match experience killing off Wall is even more interesting given this set:


Sonic relied on Wall more than any player I've seen thus far. I gotta imagine the reason it worked so reliably was either surprise or lack of matchup knowledge on Hayatei's part as I really don't see this being a viable strategy against experienced players at all.
 

gibster13

A fan of fans
Interesting. Gonna have to give it a test run, as I wrote it off right away. Now that people are punching/FLB the wall, it's getting near useless in long sets. I was hesitant before because Rock Orb replaces Wall, but now it doesn't seem like it matters much. I expect this to be the case long term too once everyone's MU Exp catches up.

My big thing was losing Geyser, but if Earthquake is good enough it could be a nice trade off with that and orb. Geyser and Teleport is a really good combo though so I'd have to give it a fair shake lol.
I am still going between the two, because I love the teleport.

But it is closer than I thought
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
So have you guys thought about any changes for Cetrion you might like to see? Once the top tiers get toned down I think she’ll be pretty great overall. If she gets changes I’d probably like f23 to be -7 and AMP wall’s gap to be reduced to where you can only flawless block punish it. I can’t really think of anything else that wouldn’t be over the top.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
Earthquake jails after boulder just like geyser, but due to the double hit, it can catch a lot of jumpers. It’s only -15 and adds a nice 50/50 option to her f34(?) string. It even jails into itself on hit if your timing is good; you literally have to respect it every time you’re hit by it. And yeah, it lowers her hithox so it can effectively counterzone some characters. You lose some combo potential, but you’ll hit a lot more than geyser, you’ll gain a 50/50, and you still have her tentacle grab to extend combos. You also gain a good teabag feint, which makes it look like you’re going to ground pound, making your opponent turtle up or jump.
I think earthquake is an amazing tool and you will definitely get a hit from it more often than Geyser, but AMP Geyser can also essentially be a 20% damage projectile if you convert off of it. Teleport is also an amazing tool because unlike Skarlet’s tele, Cetrion’s is really good. Geyser can also punish things like Geras’ db1 and Scorpion’s full screen spear which is useful. It also essentially makes her fatal blow an 18f punish on things she wouldn’t otherwise be able to hit with it. If only she could have quake, Geyser, and teleport all at once, she’d be crazy
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
So have you guys thought about any changes for Cetrion you might like to see? Once the top tiers get toned down I think she’ll be pretty great overall. If she gets changes I’d probably like f23 to be -7 and AMP wall’s gap to be reduced to where you can only flawless block punish it. I can’t really think of anything else that wouldn’t be over the top.
Toning down the ridiculous top 5 a bit would make the game near ideal, but for Cetrion specifically I have a couple of suggestions. Pretty much aligned with yours.

-Remove the poking gap in AMP Wall. I've said it 100x, but once people master MUs it will make the AMP Wall almost useless at higher levels. At all levels people are getting away with fraudulent play that won't last. I've gotten a taste of this already, I can only imagine in the future. FLB punish great ok, but remove the gap given her weak up close options.

-If AMP Wall is adjusted I can live with F23 being -10. If it isn't adjusted, then I'd put F23 at -6. One of the two needs adjusting for her long term growth.

-Adjust her Geyser KB to something practical, possibly hitting 3x in a match to activate or 3 AMP Geysers even. "Miss three Geysers in a row then hit one" is in contention for most useless KB in the game.

-Make opponents unable to low profile her mid attacks, 3 and F2. Making them reliable when at advantage.


That's about it. Sounds simple and straight forward, but I think that's how all the characters buffs should be handled to keep balance.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
Toning down the ridiculous top 5 a bit would make the game near ideal, but for Cetrion specifically I have a couple of suggestions. Pretty much aligned with yours.

-Remove the poking gap in AMP Wall. I've said it 100x, but once people master MUs it will make the AMP Wall almost useless at higher levels. At all levels people are getting away with fraudulent play that won't last. I've gotten a taste of this already, I can only imagine in the future. FLB punish great ok, but remove the gap given her weak up close options.

-If AMP Wall is adjusted I can live with F23 being -10. If it isn't adjusted, then I'd put F23 at -6. One of the two needs adjusting for her long term growth.

-Adjust her Geyser KB to something practical, possibly hitting 3x in a match to activate or 3 AMP Geysers even. "Miss three Geysers in a row then hit one" is in contention for most useless KB in the game.

-Make opponents unable to low profile her mid attacks, 3 and F2. Making them reliable when at advantage.


That's about it. Sounds simple and straight forward, but I think that's how all the characters buffs should be handled to keep balance.
I totally forgot about her Geyser KB because it’s so ridiculously bad. These changes are pretty good, they’re pretty similar to what I want as well. She’s a solid character and has good tools to work with I just hope they fix her wall or make her f23 a useable stagger.
 

gibster13

A fan of fans
So have you guys thought about any changes for Cetrion you might like to see? Once the top tiers get toned down I think she’ll be pretty great overall. If she gets changes I’d probably like f23 to be -7 and AMP wall’s gap to be reduced to where you can only flawless block punish it. I can’t really think of anything else that wouldn’t be over the top.
I’d think customs variations would benefit her a lot.

Her ability to hold and cancel her Boulder is useless imo. Replace with her other cool moves.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
I’d think customs variations would benefit her a lot.

Her ability to hold and cancel her Boulder is useless imo. Replace with her other cool moves.
I feel like I wouldn’t get much use out of custom variations with Cetrion. 2/4 of her auras seem totally useless and I don’t think I’d want to run Geyser without teleport. Earthquake and tele together would be good but idk what the 3rd move would even be besides boulder hold.

It also wouldn’t really fix the issue that her up close stagger game is kind of fraudulent off her only decent range mid.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
So uh, anyone else noticed that Cetrion's geyser ender whiffs on Geras? The second hit just doesn't pick him up so fullscreen geyser conversions have to be converted into db1 or df1. It also makes comboing off her d2 and 213 KBs super inconsistent.
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
So uh, anyone else noticed that Cetrion's geyser ender whiffs on Geras? The second hit just doesn't pick him up so fullscreen geyser conversions have to be converted into db1 or df1. It also makes comboing off her d2 and 213 KBs super inconsistent.
I've noticed the same thing against kotal
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
Anyone else notice Cetrion has fairly good unbreakable damage if you need to finish off an opponent who has 2 defensive bars? F23/21 xx db4 AMP s4 xx bf4 AMP bf2 is 267 damage. Not a bad thing to bear in mind if the situation arises.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
@SaltShaker @Baconlord I’ve been labbing flawless block gaps on everyone in general but I was testing Cetrion’s AMP wall and you can punish it for big damage on a lot of characters just flawless blocking it no meter. On Sonya I was very consistently b123 punishing it since flawless blocking removed its pushback. I’m sure you both are aware of this but I thought it was worth sharing. It makes wall AMP extremely risky and the opponent doesn’t even have to risk mistiming the gap interrupt they just have to learn to flawless block it.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
@SaltShaker @Baconlord I’ve been labbing flawless block gaps on everyone in general but I was testing Cetrion’s AMP wall and you can punish it for big damage on a lot of characters just flawless blocking it no meter. On Sonya I was very consistently b123 punishing it since flawless blocking removed its pushback. I’m sure you both are aware of this but I thought it was worth sharing. It makes wall AMP extremely risky and the opponent doesn’t even have to risk mistiming the gap interrupt they just have to learn to flawless block it.
Yep, sounds about right. I've been victim of it in long sets with a couple of my usual training buds. That's why it's mind blowing why we aren't seeing it blown up more at the "highest level", but I think that's because they're playing so many MUs they aren't fully learning it yet. Whereas I have a small group that we literally play every day with the exact same characters so now they are FLB'ing about 25% of the times for full combo. In just two weeks.

I'm a strong believer (y'all probably tired of hearing me say it but I'm literally experiencing it lol) that over time the Wall will be rendered very weak if it stays in it's current form. I'm trying to consciously use it less and less in advance preparation for MU exp to catch up to the inefficiency. That and sometimes I just can't/won't risk being full combo'd. Started testing out the other variation since Orb Rock replaces Wall, but not sold on losing the Teleport AND Geyser.

Basically, S1 at 7F is a fairly easy full combo punish through the AMP gap, but FLB on the AMP Wall is one of the easier FLBs in the game due to the delay in AMP. That's why the true buff I want is for it to be one full move, to avoid all of this and keep it's usage in tact. If not, by CEO-EVO time it'll be dead completely. "For now" however, it will fraudulently work.