Are you enjoyin the current meta?

[M.D.]

Just to balance things out when people defend that broken @ss teleport.

It's too fast, if you see the animation it's borderline unreactable to block, especially if you were walking. You almost always have to do a read or hold block before he does it.

Nerf that sh!t

 

[spidey300]

some of y'all seem to really don't like scorpion teleport. you act like you get hit by it 10/10 times.

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

I voted no because playing Cage i'm the only one who is forced to follow the meta, while all the geras sonyas errons subzeros just play mkx on my ass not giving a fk.

Try playing Jacqui against that shit.

 

[M.D.]

Ah no, just I feel the need to counter-post anyone defending it as being bad and unsafe.

I was actually going to try Jacqui, thanks for the heads up )

 

[GLoRToR]

The Footsies

Almost all normal attacks and strings are barely safe on block in Mortal Kombat 11. You are therefore at a disadvantage after your best string and have to guess between a forward or back throw, which is a 50/50 mix up. You can neutral crouch and punish the throw with a krushing blow d+2, but you are vulnerable to your opponent’s best string if you neutral crouch. Because there are no armor moves and backdashes have no invulnerable frames as they do in Mortal Kombat X, you are more or less playing a game of “rock, paper, scissors” every time your string gets blocked or you block your opponent’s string. The better characters in the game somewhat ignore this meta because they have safer or cancelable strings, which may also create pushback on block to force you out of your throw and poking range.

The Rush Down

In Mortal Kombat 11, 50/50 mix ups and pressure are far less common and oppressive as they are in Mortal Kombat X. Although every character has access to the basic 50/50 mix up with a forward or back throw that also has krushing blow properties, the focus has been switched to playing the neutral game and forcing attacks to whiff in order to open up your opponent. Unlike in Mortal Kombat X, a player in Mortal Kombat 11 must also be aware and respect an opponent who has been knocked down as whiffing a string on a front or back roll gets you punished. The better characters in the game have access to mix ups that are beyond the universal front or back throw. Some remnants of 50/50 mix ups still exist yet are only reserved for a handful of fortunate characters.

The Zoning

There were some concerns about zoning in the initial versions of the game, but increased walk speeds and forward dashes, including the controversial “wave dash”, have universally limited zoning. There is also a plethora of special moves that are anti-zoning in nature that close the gap fairly quickly between you and your opponent. These options are, again, particularly common among the better characters in the game. Traditional zoning remains a viable strategy but not to the extent of any previous NRS games. Anyone who expects to win from full screen way will be severely disappointed as most fights are ultimately won up close or at mid range.

Whether you are playing the game at a casual, intermediate, or competitive level, are you enjoying the meta? Post and share your thoughts in this thread. I am curious what the community thinks so far.

As someone who plays one of the currently weakest characters on the roster and strongly depends on spacing, I find that it's either my character that needs to get a lot stronger, or the top 10 will need to get a lot weaker.
I'm not sure whether the meta needs changing in itself. I know that I'd love d1 to be less mashable and throws not to work on downpokes but I'm probably alone with that as everyone I face seems intent on d1d1d1throw, which is an aspect of meta I do not personally enjoy.

 

[SCMunnerlyn1]

I've been playing Raiden and the game has felt awful for me. It's pretty much people block low and just lol because that 1 overhead has to be closer than d2 range. That and I just really dont vibe with these characters well. Does it feel like maybe they did too much with this title? Feel like the d and o meters are a nice touch but then all the other mechanics associated with it and crushing blows make it sloppy. Jmo

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

some of y'all seem to really don't like scorpion teleport. you act like you get hit by it 10/10 times.

It's not the teleport itself it's all the inherent pressure and openings that exist because of the threat of teleport. Game is supposed to be neutral and footsie heavy, but you have this character than can just randomly hit you anytime you let go of block. Then let's say you block it... well he amped it so you got hit anyway, or he didn't amp it but you had to guard the threat of amp so it's still his turn, or you blocked both the teleport and the amp but the punishment window is super small. O AND FUCK ANY OF THIS UP and eat a 3rd of your life worth of damage or more.

 

[LightsOut452]

My biggest complaint is that Lao is unsafe as hell on everything, has no overhead and honestly makes me wanna switch to a top tier and stop caring about all this

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

I really enjoy the game so far, but there are a few things that I don't like.

I don't like how High moves have become such a very high risk/medium reward. The d2 Krushing Blows allows the opponent to steal 30%+ of the lifebar just by kountering a high move. In MKX it was a poke, an armor reversal move (so no combos unless 2 meter spent) or 14% from the d2 and that's it. Of course the d2 KB is universal but, in my humble opinion, they should make the d2 KB should either have an extra requirement or they should increase the damage scaling.

I don't know how to describe it, but there are a few moves that can be MB very late and it adds a layer of guessing where there shouldn't be one. It don't know if it's clear enough but I'll take Scorpion's teleport as an exemple. If the opponent uses it, you want to punish the raw tp but Scorpion can MB his tp so late that you take the risk of being combo'd by the second hit of the tp. You can also chose to respect the second hit and Scorpion can be left unpunished because he chose to not MB it. It reminds me the same issue with Mileena Piercing in MKX where she could still throw an air sai after a blocked teleport, adding a guessing game on a situation where the punish should be guaranteed if you labbed it.

I still don't know what to think about the Fatal Blows. In a way it's a good comeback mechanic but maybe a bit too powerful in the current state. It doesn't affect balance as much as the previous sentence would imply, because everybody has access to it, but it's more about the aspect of "Oops I missed the my fatal blow, I just have to wait x seconds and I'll try again". It should be restricted to one succesful FB per match (like in the current build) but also only one activation per round. I also like that you can save a bit of life by pressing 3 at the right moment during FBs, it makes them less redundant to watch. And please NRS, make the Fatal Blows of the DLC characters shorter.

This is still the most balanced game NRS has ever released. The Krushing Blow mechanic is a great idea and it makes the game much more interesting, it needs a few tweaks because some characters have too much powerful KBs and some don't have useful KBs at all (besides the universal d2 of course), but I like the mechanic. However I don't like the KB on throws, they should either change the damage or the requirements but to me the risk/reward ratio isn't very fair.

I also love the focus on the neutral and footsies in the game.

The game has an incredible potential and I'm looking forward to see its evolution. Too bad it suffered from the huge (and justified) backlash with the MTXs, the tedious grinding and the dishonest economic policy.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I’m loving this meta, this is the most rewarding feeling NRS game yet for me. I love how much of a commitment most attacks including this game are outside of a few fuck neutral characters with some unga bunga cheese. It makes things feel far more deliberate and I find people are playing much smarter this time around because they have to.

Only thing I’m not too cool on is how goofy Fatal Blows are. I wish they were more designed for combo enders or punishment and less so for “let me wait until they press a fucking button and then let it rip”

The fact that some of them track is just baffling.

My complaints are about a couple of characters that NRS did dirty ( Raiden, Kitana, Kung Lao etc.) and the breakaway system guarantees a combo punish. 50/50 claimed to be remove was bullshit.

People keep misquoting this for some reason.

They never said 50/50’s were removed, they said they were toned down from X, which isn’t true, very few characters but have things like both low and OH starters or even low and OH options that both lead into combo like in X.

50/50’s in this game are more for conditioning or KBs.

 

[Uncurabl3]

It's not the teleport itself it's all the inherent pressure and openings that exist because of the threat of teleport. Game is supposed to be neutral and footsie heavy, but you have this character than can just randomly hit you anytime you let go of block. Then let's say you block it... well he amped it so you got hit anyway, or he didn't amp it but you had to guard the threat of amp so it's still his turn, or you blocked both the teleport and the amp but the punishment window is super small. O AND FUCK ANY OF THIS UP and eat a 3rd of your life worth of damage or more.

Don't forget, he can cancel it into a throw or f3 stagger for more mindgames, all this from one move, the netherealm poster boys strikes again

 

[Pterodactyl]

My biggest complaint is that Lao is unsafe as hell on everything, has no overhead and honestly makes me wanna switch to a top tier and not caring about all this

90% of the cast is unsafe on almost everything and about the same amount have only strong OHs or strong Lows but not both. It’s a deliberate design decision to encourage actual footies and make this game less about constant strong 50/50’s. You need to make reads and you need to condition and you need to commit.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

I’m loving this meta, this is the most rewarding feeling NRS game yet for me. I love how much of a commitment most attacks including this game are outside of a few fuck neutral characters with some unga bunga cheese. It makes things feel far more deliberate and I find people are playing much smarter this time around because they have to.

Only thing I’m not too cool on is how goofy Fatal Blows are. I wish they were more designed for combo enders or punishment and less so for “let me wait until they press a fucking button and then let it rip”

The fact that some of them track is just baffling.





People keep misquoting this for some reason.

They never said 50/50’s were removed, they said they were toned down from X, which isn’t true, very few characters but have things like both low and OH starters or even low and OH options that both lead into combo like in X.

50/50’s in this game are more for conditioning or KBs.

I’m aware of that. I’m comparing Kano’s 50/50 to Sub Zero’s.
Sub has true 50/50 that lives you guessing but Kano’s OH is reactible and doesn’t lead to shit.

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

Also I hate the Fatal Blow Mechanic, because if you are winning a close fight, it happens way too often that your opponent get's this and steals the round, while you never had access to the mechanic. Creates this weird situation where if the fight is close you actually want to go into the Fatal Blow range before your opponent does.

Krushing blows are also screwed up, they feel more random than intentional. I'm aware that you can set them to manually trigger but it's not worth it to do most of the time. They range from "get lucky with d2" to "land every possible connection off of clench". I haven't seen Johnny's stuff yet but I've read that his KB's are just stupid. So this just feels random as hell, far to random for something this powerful.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Also I hate the Fatal Blow Mechanic, because if you are winning a close fight, it happens way too often that your opponent get's this and steals the round, while you never had access to the mechanic. Creates this weird situation where if the fight is close you actually want to go into the Fatal Blow range before your opponent does.

Krushing blows are also screwed up, they feel more random than intentional. I'm aware that you can set them to manually trigger but it's not worth it to do most of the time. They range from "get lucky with d2" to "land every possible connection off of clench". I haven't seen Johnny's stuff yet but I've read that his KB's are just stupid. So this just feels random as hell, far to random for something this powerful.

Agreed about KBs. Johnny doesn’t have any good KB. Like AT ALL. His f43 KB is bullshit and other KBs are tied to his kustom moves.
I set my KBs to manual day1. I think it’s a must so that I don’t waste it on the situation you mention above “getting a random d2 at the end of the round”.
Disagreed about FB though

 

[Wrath0594]

Scorpion's teleport is full combo punishable whether he delays the mb or not. It is in no way safe

Never said it was. But the window between when he can no longer amp, but before he can block is too small for a tool that already dominates the neutra game. You cannot zone, you can’t jump in, and you have to let Scorpion jump in, which gives him free mixups. If he throws it out carelessly, punishing it shouldn’t involve ANOTHER check on top of all that it already offers.

 

[Hellbringer]

love it

 

[f24]

Love it. If Sonya, Erron, Sub, and Geras (S tier) were tuned down to say Cassie or Kabal level (A+ tier) then I think the game would be perfect. Jade, Kotal, and Shao Khan (B tier) could stand to be raised to a higher level imo.

 

[Kingofthedead45]

I believe at its face value mk 11 is a simpler game compared to X. In terms of mechanisms, combo potential being reduced and made to be easier for a broader inclusion for both the casual player and potential competitive player(the game being easier, meaning the barrier of entry is lower so it's easier to be competitive in turn.). It requires less focus on the minucia of combos and, to a lesser degree, the setups for 50/50s and more on the strategic elements and "mind games" of fighting games. There is this mind set in casual players that if they can do these crazy combos in a fighting game they'll "win" and dont understand thats not any where close to being correct. This game throws that idea right in your face. No one had to worry about crazy combos and set ups cause there are none, you're forced to focus on what matters, neutral, footises, poking, wiff punishing, mind games. And most of it is pretty optimal with very simple inputs. Ie punishing a wiff with d2 for real decent damage(I know this scenario is far from optimal, but it's more viable and easier then it's ever been). Basically the game is easier to get into then it's ever been thanks to choosing to focus on the strategic elements of fighting games rather then the dexterity requirement of tough to pull off combos and the misconception that you're good and will win cause you can do those combos.

With that said though, a simpler focused game means theres just less flash to the game aswell. You're not going to be doing any combos in this that no one else could pull off in the heat of things. No combo one touch kill spectacle will happen here like some of the hype stuff that comes out of dragon ball z fighters for example. I think in the long run, the game will be seen as relatively slow and boring to that same causal audience that put such a huge emphasis on hard to do combos. So its yet to be seen if they may have stepped too much into that side of the puddle. Make a game for everyone to be viable in and theres just no spectacle to be had.

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

O and last thing. Jacqui has a move that requires a very fast and specific timing, but she's expected to do this move as part of her BnB. Which would be fine if other characters had to do similar things, but they don't. Some of them can do BnB's without much execution at all. It's just execution barrier for the sake of having one, and I don't get it.

 

[TakeAChance]

The Footsies

Almost all normal attacks and strings are barely safe on block in Mortal Kombat 11. You are therefore at a disadvantage after your best string and have to guess between a forward or back throw, which is a 50/50 mix up. You can neutral crouch and punish the throw with a krushing blow d+2, but you are vulnerable to your opponent’s best string if you neutral crouch. Because there are no armor moves and backdashes have no invulnerable frames as they do in Mortal Kombat X, you are more or less playing a game of “rock, paper, scissors” every time your string gets blocked or you block your opponent’s string. The better characters in the game somewhat ignore this meta because they have safer or cancelable strings, which may also create pushback on block to force you out of your throw and poking range.

The Rush Down

In Mortal Kombat 11, 50/50 mix ups and pressure are far less common and oppressive as they are in Mortal Kombat X. Although every character has access to the basic 50/50 mix up with a forward or back throw that also has krushing blow properties, the focus has been switched to playing the neutral game and forcing attacks to whiff in order to open up your opponent. Unlike in Mortal Kombat X, a player in Mortal Kombat 11 must also be aware and respect an opponent who has been knocked down as whiffing a string on a front or back roll gets you punished. The better characters in the game have access to mix ups that are beyond the universal front or back throw. Some remnants of 50/50 mix ups still exist yet are only reserved for a handful of fortunate characters.

The Zoning

There were some concerns about zoning in the initial versions of the game, but increased walk speeds and forward dashes, including the controversial “wave dash”, have universally limited zoning. There is also a plethora of special moves that are anti-zoning in nature that close the gap fairly quickly between you and your opponent. These options are, again, particularly common among the better characters in the game. Traditional zoning remains a viable strategy but not to the extent of any previous NRS games. Anyone who expects to win from full screen way will be severely disappointed as most fights are ultimately won up close or at mid range.

Whether you are playing the game at a casual, intermediate, or competitive level, are you enjoying the meta? Post and share your thoughts in this thread. I am curious what the community thinks so far.

You know M2Dave, we have disagreed in the past, but I have been loving your threads lately. I feel you are feeling the same things I am currently feeling with mk11.

Rush down is mute, zoning is mute, and neutral is king, but without strong sides of the coin on each side it feels like a very stale experience.

Do you feel this way too? The potential is there with the custom moves in terms of balancing, but right now mk11 feels....shallow?

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

O and one more gripe, sorry. Playing Jacqui against characters that can amplify projectiles in such away that they cannot be jumped over, like Liu Kang does, or worse like Frost does kinda sucks, because if you're both on last hit, Jacqui just lost in a braindead feels bad way. It would be a small gripe if it didn't happen so damn often.

 

[Matix218]

Never said it was. But the window between when he can no longer amp, but before he can block is too small for a tool that already dominates the neutra game. You cannot zone, you can’t jump in, and you have to let Scorpion jump in, which gives him free mixups. If he throws it out carelessly, punishing it shouldn’t involve ANOTHER check on top of all that it already offers.

I am a scorp player but I already said we dont need to be able to mb the tele on block. But either way just hold block after blocking the teleport before inputting your punish. if your punish string is 7-9 frames in startup there is no reason even a full mb delay will cause you to miss your punish on a std teleport if the scorp doesnt meterburn. The only way it is an issue is if you are impatient and release block as soon as you block the teleport to punish. But either way if they change it i dont care, i expect to be punished if i guess wrong on a mb teleport so i have no issue with them removing mb on block

 

[Demon_0]

I love the meta and the overall focus on footsies. My only gripe is custom variations not allowed in ranked/tournament. Though, that might make the zoning of some characters (Jade) too strong so some zoning tools might need to be toned down somewhat.

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

I love the meta and the overall focus on footsies. My only gripe is custom variations not allowed in ranked/tournament. Though, that might make the zoning of some characters (Jade) too strong so some zoning tools might need to be toned down somewhat.

Custom variations will not make the game more interesting. There would eventually be a consensus on what the best set of skills to equip is and then you would have just that one set rather than 2. This idea that custom variations would open the game up is just not what's going to happen.