solutions for sonics "air tech" problem - no armor?

[Vslayer]

When playing there was only one moment where I thought the air tech was cheap and that was when I was against a Scorpion player, he had little health left and he made one last ditch effort to chip away at my health with a combo, I teched out of it during his spear and I finished him with a brutality.

I feel like they're not going to change it because some special moves that take a long time to recover it's up to you not to use it when you see your opponent has all their defensive meter. And removing armor would be useless as a combo breaker mechanic because you'll still be able to get caught in the rest of the combo if your opponent can hit confirm, so no that would be dumb.

 

[ChatterBox]

I hope it doesn't change until the whole community gets to lab. There are breaker safe combos in any game that has them. I'm assuming we'll find a way around it without losing much damage, or we'll know how to bait them and come out still on the offense.

 

[PapaRegadetho]

I appeal NRS not to change anything until we at least play the game for a whole month. I like every single mechanic in the game I dont want them to be pressured to change stuff that actually looks good for once.

 

[trufenix]

Play Baraka for a while against Scorpion in the corner and live in the quiet hell that is no defensive bar for half a fucking round, you'll change your mind.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Play Baraka for a while against Scorpion in the corner and live in the quiet hell that is no defensive bar for half a fucking round, you'll change your mind.

good call !

or just mix some mechanics up .... you do the breakaway (air scape), but once you touch the floor , your character automatically does forward roll (if in the corner), or a back roll (if out of corner) .... in a way that make you scape from the damage taken, but you cannot counter attack too ....

all I know it's that this subject is interesting to discuss but also kinda stressfull regarding the most optimal solution, so, any creative good sugestion it's welcome, indeed !

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm convinced at this point that people who want to "change" this mechanic have zero interest in hearing why it shouldn't be changed. They just want to think less, but claim they want a deeper game.

 

[Vslayer]

I'm convinced at this point that people who want to "change" this mechanic have zero interest in hearing why it shouldn't be changed. They just want to think less, but claim they want a deeper game.

Yep, I feel like the breakaway makes you think more on what combos you should do (because you can't punish every string) and it makes you keep an eye on your opponent's meter way more.

 

[SaltShaker]

Yep, I feel like the breakaway makes you think more on what combos you should do (because you can't punish every string) and it makes you keep an eye on your opponent's meter way more.

Yep that's exactly what it does. The only argument against it is "well I can't do my max damage Scorpion spear combo every time I land it hit so it needs to be removed". An argument I massively disagree with. MKX is right over there for mindless offense. The added layer of depth helps improve the game in a huge way.

 

[Vslayer]

Yep that's exactly what it does. The only argument against it is "well I can't do my max damage Scorpion spear combo every time I land it hit so it needs to be removed". An argument I massively disagree with. MKX is right over there for mindless offense. The added layer of depth helps improve the game in a huge way.

It gives people more incentive to play footsies and mind games. You're forced to slow down your gameplay and think before throwing out strings and some people just want to play it like MKX and they're getting blown up. I took some time adjusting since I was playing MK9 just before the beta, but once I started understanding the wake ups and how to control space with Scarlet, it was really, really fun and rewarding.

 

[hatyr]

It's a little annoying imo (just breakers in general). In my opinion, you don't get your balls out big boy damage every time you open someone up. Harass, knockdown, get them spending that defensive meter on rolls, delays and wakeups, then do your eff all damage when they can't do anything about it.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I'm convinced at this point that people who want to "change" this mechanic have zero interest in hearing why it shouldn't be changed. They just want to think less, but claim they want a deeper game.

You're exactly right. They don't even want to see how the meta evolves with this mechanic.

Just kill it now. lol

Like how about make your opponent spend their meter and then punish them when they can't do shit.

 

[SaltShaker]

It gives people more incentive to play footsies and mind games. You're forced to slow down your gameplay and think before throwing out strings and some people just want to play it like MKX and they're getting blown up. I took some time adjusting since I was playing MK9 just before the beta, but once I started understanding the wake ups and how to control space with Scarlet, it was really, really fun and rewarding.

Yep. Here are three examples-

Scenario 1- You land a hit, you see/know your opponent has two bars and has a tendency to break. You purposely stop your combo short as you made the correct read, and they used their break for nothing. Now they have eaten 20% damage, and fell to the ground as you pressure them. For 36 seconds (a lifetime in fighting games) because it charges so slow, they cannot break again, and this is assuming during the entire 36 seconds they did not use a WU/FLB/AMP defensive move/AMP Roll/etc. If they did they cannot break for nearly a full minute. For 18 seconds they can't use any of their D Bar options. Next time you hit them within the 18 seconds (or more), you can freely do your max damage combo and instantly pressure with no fear of a WU or roll. Offensive characters who outthink their opponent are heavily rewarded here.

Scenario 2- You land a hit, but see your opponent has 2 defensive bars, so you opt for the non-max damage 24% combo. A little later your opponent uses a WU/AMP D Bar/etc. Next time when you land your hit, you see your opponent has 1+ of a defensive bar, so you use your max damage 32-45% combo. Your opponent can't break since they used a D Bar on something else recently, though you still have to pay attention to a WU attempt in this scenario. This would likely be the scenario against players who are heavily reliant on using Defensive Bar amplified moves, WUs/Rolls, and FLBs. With these opponents you may be more likely to go max damage regardless of them having two bars if you read them as a reservists for their other options with the meter.

Scenario 3- You do the same exact max damage Scorpion Spear combo over and over any time you land a hit. Since you're so predictable, players just wait for the spear and full combo punish you like the idiot you are. You refuse to adapt, and blame the mechanic, calling it broken, when it is you who is not adjusting your game accordingly.

I'm hearing no legitimate argument why this mechanic is broken or overpowered. You can argue you prefer more offense and "max damage at all times without thinking" yea, you can say you prefer that. You can't say this mechanic is broken though. It's actually perfectly fine as is.

They don't even want to see how the meta evolves with this mechanic.

Just kill it now. lol

Or we can just do this instead.

 

[Juggs]

I really wish people would stop asking for changes. There isn’t really a problem. You spend two defensive meters and then you’re screwed for awhile. You have to just sit there and take the oki and pressure. It’s just a mechanic you have to get used to, tbh. I was annoyed at first but after awhile I realized they have to hold the oki and mixups and you still already did damage to them.

 

[deathstroke187]

i dont think removing armor would solve the issue it might make the situation even worst.

but i would remove armor on fatal blows. that move is just scrubby and does way too much damage for no real risk. btw skarlet fatal blows is +49 on block

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Yep. Here are three examples-

Scenario 1- You land a hit, you see/know your opponent has two bars and has a tendency to break. You purposely stop your combo short as you made the correct read, and they used their break for nothing. Now they have eaten 20% damage, and fell to the ground as you pressure them. For 36 seconds (a lifetime in fighting games) because it charges so slow, they cannot break again, and this is assuming during the entire 36 seconds they did not use a WU/FLB/AMP defensive move/AMP Roll/etc. If they did they cannot break for nearly a full minute. For 18 seconds they can't use any of their D Bar options. Next time you hit them within the 18 seconds (or more), you can freely do your max damage combo and instantly pressure with no fear of a WU or roll. Offensive characters who outthink their opponent are heavily rewarded here.

Scenario 2- You land a hit, but see your opponent has 2 defensive bars, so you opt for the non-max damage 24% combo. A little later your opponent uses a WU/AMP D Bar/etc. Next time when you land your hit, you see your opponent has 1+ of a defensive bar, so you use your max damage 32-45% combo. Your opponent can't break since they used a D Bar on something else recently, though you still have to pay attention to a WU attempt in this scenario. This would likely be the scenario against players who are heavily reliant on using Defensive Bar amplified moves, WUs/Rolls, and FLBs. With these opponents you may be more likely to go max damage regardless of them having two bars if you read them as a reservists for their other options with the meter.

Scenario 3- You do the same exact max damage Scorpion Spear combo over and over any time you land a hit. Since you're so predictable, players just wait for the spear and full combo punish you like the idiot you are. You refuse to adapt, and blame the mechanic, calling it broken, when it is you who is not adjusting your game accordingly.

I'm hearing no legitimate argument why this mechanic is broken or overpowered. You can argue you prefer more offense and "max damage at all times without thinking" yea, you can say you prefer that. You can't say this mechanic is broken though. It's actually perfectly fine as is.



Or we can just do this instead.

Scenario 3 is my favorite!

 

[YoungTeezy 305]

When used it should make your defensive bars recharge very slowly.

 

[Wetdoba]

When used it should make your defensive bars recharge very slowly.

It does. When you use 2 bars at once in this game they recharge slower than if you used only 1

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Yep. Here are three examples-

Scenario 1- You land a hit, you see/know your opponent has two bars and has a tendency to break. You purposely stop your combo short as you made the correct read, and they used their break for nothing. Now they have eaten 20% damage, and fell to the ground as you pressure them. For 36 seconds (a lifetime in fighting games) because it charges so slow, they cannot break again, and this is assuming during the entire 36 seconds they did not use a WU/FLB/AMP defensive move/AMP Roll/etc. If they did they cannot break for nearly a full minute. For 18 seconds they can't use any of their D Bar options. Next time you hit them within the 18 seconds (or more), you can freely do your max damage combo and instantly pressure with no fear of a WU or roll. Offensive characters who outthink their opponent are heavily rewarded here.

Scenario 2- You land a hit, but see your opponent has 2 defensive bars, so you opt for the non-max damage 24% combo. A little later your opponent uses a WU/AMP D Bar/etc. Next time when you land your hit, you see your opponent has 1+ of a defensive bar, so you use your max damage 32-45% combo. Your opponent can't break since they used a D Bar on something else recently, though you still have to pay attention to a WU attempt in this scenario. This would likely be the scenario against players who are heavily reliant on using Defensive Bar amplified moves, WUs/Rolls, and FLBs. With these opponents you may be more likely to go max damage regardless of them having two bars if you read them as a reservists for their other options with the meter.

Scenario 3- You do the same exact max damage Scorpion Spear combo over and over any time you land a hit. Since you're so predictable, I'll just wait for the spear and full combo punish you like the idiot you are. You refuse to adapt, and blame the mechanic, calling it broken, when it is you who is not adjusting your game accordingly.

I'm hearing no legitimate argument why this mechanic is broken or overpowered. You can argue you prefer more offense and "max damage at all times without thinking" yea, you can say you prefer that. You can't say this mechanic is broken though. It's actually perfectly fine as is.



Or we can just do this instead.

I'd like to add a 4th Scenario. You open your opponent up, (they fell out the first time they had 2 bars) so of course you expect them to do it again. Here's the rub: They know you're good, they know you're aware because you already made your first combo safe when they fell out. So you do your shorter, safe combo again, and this time, they don't fall out. They've now kept their 2 bars and you just left damage on the table because you lost the 'are they going to fall out or not' guessing game.

You'll also have people who only fall out half the time they have two bars, totally random. They didn't fall out the last two times you cut your combo short, so the 3rd time you let it rock right? Nope, they conditioned you, and they've fallen out this time and are punishing your ass.

I've already played this guessing game a ton in my short time with the stress test, and I'm not sure what to do about it. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[JBeezYBabY]

Im fine with the breakaway mechanic as it is this moment. 1 the solution is not finish the strings which people were doing to me to bait out the breakaway, then you have no defensive meter to defend yourself. Maaaaaybe if they have the defensive meter come back even slower, that could be a good solution.

 

[YoungTeezy 305]

It does. When you use 2 bars at once in this game they recharge slower than if you used only 1

I mean really really slow.

 

[deathstroke187]

Im fine with the breakaway mechanic as it is this moment. 1 the solution is not finish the strings which people were doing to me to bait out the breakaway, then you have no defensive meter to defend yourself. Maaaaaybe if they have the defensive meter come back even slower, that could be a good solution.

yeah but baiting the breakaway doesnt give you anything cause they are safe and cant punish the mechanics so its a no risk high reward thing.. imagine doing a 30% combo then baraka flip out and punish you for a 60% combo cause you did the right thing. thats retarded and if you bait him out you dont get anything but you cant punish cause his safe

 

[JBeezYBabY]

yeah but baiting the breakaway doesnt give you anything cause they are safe and cant punish the mechanics so its a no risk high reward thing.. imagine doing a 30% combo then baraka flip out and punish you for a 60% combo cause you did the right thing. thats (soap bar in my mouth) and if you bait him out you dont get anything but you cant punish cause his safe

I mean, their wakeup is the same animation when you knock them down so it becomes a potential setup. Its tricky, yes, but it teaches you watch their meter as well.

Combo breakers aren't coming back and making Breakaway have no armor makes that mechanic useless. Listen, until something changes, this is what we're gonna have to deal with.

 

[Vslayer]

i dont think removing armor would solve the issue it might make the situation even worst.

but i would remove armor on fatal blows. that move is just scrubby and does way too much damage for no real risk. btw skarlet fatal blows is +49 on block

It's 'scrubby' when people throw it out randomly as a last ditch effort, but it's a great comeback mechanic when you use it in a combo and get ridiculous damage.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

yeah but baiting the breakaway doesnt give you anything cause they are safe and cant punish the mechanics so its a no risk high reward thing.. imagine doing a 30% combo then baraka flip out and punish you for a 60% combo cause you did the right thing. thats (soap bar in my mouth) and if you bait him out you dont get anything but you cant punish cause his safe

Your opponent having no defensive meter is a huge reward I think. That's free wakeup pressure for 18 seconds and free reign to do your max damage combos for 36 seconds. The more I think about this the more I am okay with it.

 

[deathstroke187]

btw this is just my opinion but getting counter poked for 35-40% armored fatal blows is wack. they should just remove its armor and it would be fine.

im not complaining i worked around the mechanics and i still enjoyed the game but i just think it would just make it more honest. its just a fuck neutral move for example baraka's is unreactible and cover from mid screen and its + on block.