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solutions for sonics "air tech" problem - no armor?

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
btw this is just my opinion but getting counter poked for 35-40% armored fatal blows is wack. they should just remove its armor and it would be fine.

im not complaining i worked around the mechanics and i still enjoyed the game but i just think it would just make it more honest. its just a fuck neutral move for example baraka's is unreactible and cover from mid screen and its + on block.
First of all, the armored fatal blow is slow as fuck. I have poked people out of it on wakeup trying to mash super. Hell, I even THREW some people of their supers. YES, its that slow and can be beaten.
 
First of all, the armored fatal blow is slow as fuck. I have poked people out of it on wakeup trying to mash super. Hell, I even THREW some people of their supers. YES, its that slow and can be beaten.
its not slow at all. baraka is unreactible and only the first 5 frames arent armored... btw thats just my opinion if you enjoy having your oponent having a ak47 in neutral just because his low health welp thats good.

for me i think it can be fix easly.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Yup, Scarlet's B3 beats it.
DAYUM! REALLY!? And that attack is not even fast LOL

Moral of the story is, people here complain waaaaaaay too damn much instead of figuring out solutions. You can have your thoughts, yes, but if all you do is see things as a problems without proposing any type of possible thought out resolution, then YOU are the problem. We're NOT doing that shit here with MK11.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
its not slow at all. baraka is unreactible and only the first 5 frames arent armored... btw thats just my opinion if you enjoy having your oponent having a ak47 in neutral just because his low health welp thats good.

for me i think it can be fix easly.
Listen, im telling you from personal experience lol. I literally performed a THROW on people mashing supers. A throw is a universal mechanic that EVERYBODY has. I mean, i can look back at matches to show this for you, but that will be at a later time. TBH you could be right, because im not sure if the start-up on the Fatal blows are the same, but with only 3 characters playable, they all felt the same.
 

MadPropz101

"I still got it...but not much of it"
Why just not just turn it into a regular breaker and increase the time it takes for the meter to come back?
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
its not slow at all. baraka is unreactible and only the first 5 frames arent armored... btw thats just my opinion if you enjoy having your oponent having a ak47 in neutral just because his low health welp thats good.

for me i think it can be fix easly.
LMAO

DAYUM! REALLY!? And that attack is not even fast LOL

Moral of the story is, people here complain waaaaaaay too damn much instead of figuring out solutions. You can have your thoughts, yes, but if all you do is see things as a problems without proposing any type of possible thought out resolution, then YOU are the problem. We're NOT doing that shit here with MK11.
Yep, right here: https://twitter.com/Gods_nerd/status/1106952191397543936 go to 16 seconds
 
I don't necessarily think it needs to be changed yet, let the game live for a bit first.

But I would think the "solution" is to just force a longer grounded state. Make it so that using it properly, e.g. during scorpion's spear, gives you frame advantage but not enough for a full combo.
 

RothVI

d2 Spammer
Now that I think about it, the breakout mechanic has a sound and visual cue. It might encourage people to use the short input window option so that they can react to it without accidentally overcommitting, right?
 
the issues is , its not that you can fucking interupt a fatal blows with launching a move and hiting the fatal blow in the first 5 frames and blowing it up . the issue is they can on reaction press 2 bouttons to either punish you or reacting to a button that you already press and f you up.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I'd like to add a 4th Scenario. You open your opponent up, (they fell out the first time they had 2 bars) so of course you expect them to do it again. Here's the rub: They know you're good, they know you're aware because you already made your first combo safe when they fell out. So you do your shorter, safe combo again, and this time, they don't fall out. They've now kept their 2 bars and you just left damage on the table because you lost the 'are they going to fall out or not' guessing game.

You'll also have people who only fall out half the time they have two bars, totally random. They didn't fall out the last two times you cut your combo short, so the 3rd time you let it rock right? Nope, they conditioned you, and they've fallen out this time and are punishing your ass.

I've already played this guessing game a ton in my short time with the stress test, and I'm not sure what to do about it. Maybe I'm missing something?
Yea it may be balanced differently by character, but I think that is by developer design.

For example, someone like Scorpion has a multitude of options and routes to combo you, mixes, and even goes for a reset if wanted. Skarlet can't really open you up this way, and has minimal options of combo routes. Here we see a difference where Scorpion has to make adjustments to not go "max damage all times" if the opponent has two bars (because he has many options), where Skarlet does the same 212 combo (because nothing is really available). Scorpion gets full combo punished for being too bold. Skarlet can block before they get up and attack unless they break at the very tail end. With Scorpion being so superior to Skarlet in offensive pressure and combo opportunity, I can't see this being an accident or coincidence. Very likely by design.

I don't think anyone can win in this game by just sitting on 2 bars for full matches. You'd have to be not using AMP D bar, WU, Roll, FLB, etc, and just sitting on them until you get hit. Surefire way to lose. Then there's in game factors such as, if i am up by half a life bar and you hit me, I'll just take the combo and keep my two bars for other purposes. If I'm down a life bar, you'll make the read if I use it or not, but if you cut your combo short your still up even more and on pressure, or you risk going for max thinking I'm saving it for next round, etc.

There's a deep mind game there that players will be able to dive into if given the chance, very dependent on the situation at play during the match. You even said it yourself here-

They didn't fall out the last two times you cut your combo short, so the 3rd time you let it rock right? Nope, they conditioned you, and they've fallen out this time and are punishing your ass.
Yes, if you are conditioned, then you lost the yomi. That's part of the depth. When you remove the ability to condition a person on the mechanic itself, you are only making it simpler to play, not necessarily better.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
you can react to 13 frames ? you must be a god , do you even know what we are talking about here ? be quiet please
Even if it is 13 frames, there is a sound and visual queue, so if you're not right in his face you can punish it.

Besides, Scarlet's FB is 9 frames startup and I punished it with a B3 that's 13 frames.

Ya salty, bro.
 

NothingPersonal

Are you not entertained!?
Breakers look like a godsent compared to this flip out. I wouldn't limit their number per match, but I'd make the attacker recover faster, or the deffender slower so that no punishes occur. Or remove them altogether, or change the animation. Don't like'em.
 
I'm not dumb, just block bro.
nobody cant react to 13 or 9 frames the visual come up at the first frame of the animation. you just got lucky and blocked before it was active if you mid screen of course you can block and i never said anything about that you really dont understand what counter poking is right? its cool though not everyone has high IQ
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
Yep. Here are three examples-

Scenario 1- You land a hit, you see/know your opponent has two bars and has a tendency to break. You purposely stop your combo short as you made the correct read, and they used their break for nothing. Now they have eaten 20% damage, and fell to the ground as you pressure them. For 36 seconds (a lifetime in fighting games) because it charges so slow, they cannot break again, and this is assuming during the entire 36 seconds they did not use a WU/FLB/AMP defensive move/AMP Roll/etc. If they did they cannot break for nearly a full minute. For 18 seconds they can't use any of their D Bar options. Next time you hit them within the 18 seconds (or more), you can freely do your max damage combo and instantly pressure with no fear of a WU or roll. Offensive characters who outthink their opponent are heavily rewarded here.

Scenario 2- You land a hit, but see your opponent has 2 defensive bars, so you opt for the non-max damage 24% combo. A little later your opponent uses a WU/AMP D Bar/etc. Next time when you land your hit, you see your opponent has 1+ of a defensive bar, so you use your max damage 32-45% combo. Your opponent can't break since they used a D Bar on something else recently, though you still have to pay attention to a WU attempt in this scenario. This would likely be the scenario against players who are heavily reliant on using Defensive Bar amplified moves, WUs/Rolls, and FLBs. With these opponents you may be more likely to go max damage regardless of them having two bars if you read them as a reservists for their other options with the meter.

Scenario 3- You do the same exact max damage Scorpion Spear combo over and over any time you land a hit. Since you're so predictable, players just wait for the spear and full combo punish you like the idiot you are. You refuse to adapt, and blame the mechanic, calling it broken, when it is you who is not adjusting your game accordingly.

I'm hearing no legitimate argument why this mechanic is broken or overpowered. You can argue you prefer more offense and "max damage at all times without thinking" yea, you can say you prefer that. You can't say this mechanic is broken though. It's actually perfectly fine as is.



Or we can just do this instead.
Church my dude. Theres plenty of nuance and counter play to the mechanic. Every fighting game requires you to pay attention to your opponents meter and options. I love clowning NRS as much as the next Tom Brady but this is a smart mechanic
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Now that I think about it, the breakout mechanic has a sound and visual cue. It might encourage people to use the short input window option so that they can react to it without accidentally overcommitting, right?
OOOOOH SNAPS! I did see that option but wasn't sure exactly what that means. Man, thank you! Thats a brilliant idea. :)

nobody cant react to 13 or 9 frames the visual come up at the first frame of the animation. you just got lucky and blocked before it was active if you mid screen of course you can block and i never said anything about that you really dont understand what counter poking is right? its cool though not everyone has high IQ
Yo. Lets not do that shit. We're here to learn and talk about our experiences with what we all here love, MK11. Not to disrespect. Keep it cute or keep it on mute.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
nobody cant react to 13 or 9 frames the visual come up at the first frame of the animation. you just got lucky and blocked before it was active if you mid screen of course you can block and i never said anything about that you really dont understand what counter poking is right? its cool though not everyone has high IQ
I know we can't react to it, but to say the move shouldn't have armor when if you anticipate it, you can counter or block it. A lot of it has to do with luck because you're reading what they're going to do. If you're ONLY talking about counter poking then yeah it's impossible. So what's the solution? Don't stay in their face when they have the FB and play it safe. Problem solved.

In all your posts on this forum, it seems you can't have a disagreement with someone without being salty and insult them. That's not gonna change anything, it just makes me not care what you're trying to say.