What does TYM think of MK11 combos?

[TackyHaddock]

Imo the most desirable and important feature/measure of a combo system is not the length of the combos, it is whether there is an ability to be creative in the exact combo you execute.

E.g., there should ideally be at least 5-10 or more ways to achieve roughly the same amount of damage in particular types of strings.

Right now, this appears largely TBD for MK11

 

[Professor Oak]

Didnt read the whole thread, but shorter combos doesnt mean less execution required per se, so labbing combos and diff enders for situational and starters for optimal punishes and all should still be cool. And also I HATED watching a combo for 4 whole ass seconds and waiting to play the game against some characters in MKX.

Plus Im pretty positive itll be like every game, some characters rely more on juggles than others to varying degrees.

I like it, but I kinda also hope damage is a little lower across the board for longer rounds but all in all, Im cool with combos being shorter if they are, as Ive seen said already, its a new game. I expect a new experience. I wanna flawless block a gap in your string and punish you with a sick string that only krushing blows after said interaction for 28% and bask in that glory, Ive 50/50d into juggle for 4 years.

 

[Skedar70]

You should now go online and face NinjaKilla's Liu Kang and get back to us with your thoughts. He's got a combo or two in MKX that he would love to show you. Be ready to hit "Rematch" after the second touch he gets on you is done.

Ninja Killer is awesome and the combos he does aren't scrub friendly. He makes great awesome conversions when you least expect it. Very few people can come even close to doing his combos. He makes Liu Kang actually look like the bad ass earth champion he is supposed to be lore wise.

MK11 seems like all you are going to need to get decent damage is a launcher into a 3 string combo and maybe into a fatal blow that you will see probably every match you play.

 

[Hitoshura]

Execution alone doesn't make a fighting game. It's a combination of mechanics, tools and the use of strategy that do. Up until this point characters in MK11 are doing less damaging combos than in previous installments due to the change of the mechanics of the juggling system. That doesn't necessarily mean that the game will be streamlined to a point where the skill required to play it on a high level will diminish. It seems to have a heavier focus on neutral which has slowly faded in other NRS games, or so I've been told by some players I keep in touch with. I personally think the idea of smaller combos leading into situations where one needs to apply oki or other mechanics when their opponent is down in order to obtain the upper hand in the match seems alright in my book.

The things that could be a potential problem for the game are some of the mechanics that are being implemented, such as regenerating special meter and crushing blows, but this isn't the thread to talk about that. All in all combos don't make the game more technical. It can add to the game, but mechanics, tools and use of strategy make up more of what makes a fighting game technical in my opinion.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Ninja Killer is awesome and the combos he does aren't scrub friendly. He makes great awesome conversions when you least expect it. Very few people can come even close to doing his combos. He makes Liu Kang actually look like the bad ass earth champion he is supposed to be lore wise.

MK11 seems like all you are going to need to get decent damage is a launcher into a 3 string combo and maybe into a fatal blow that you will see probably every match you play.

You are forgetting about krushing blows. Many different krushing blows allow for more combo potential. I think we're going to see a lot of creative things with them once people really learn them properly.

 

[omooba]

I find it kind of hard to understand why ppl are worried about something like this before actually playing the game. Nobody has had enough time with the game to actually say if long combos are out of the question or not. Ketchup and Mustard have even put out a video demonstrating some combos then look pretty long to me. And that was with just a little amount of time with the game. I'd say be patient and see how the game plays. Its silly to make conclusions without playing the damn game.

Edit: That said... they removed the breaker for a reason.

IMO combo breaks are stronger not weaker

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

You should now go online and face NinjaKilla's Liu Kang and get back to us with your thoughts. He's got a combo or two in MKX that he would love to show you. Be ready to hit "Rematch" after the second touch he gets on you is done.

Long combos doesn't have to translate to high damage. They can scale damage without removing diversity.

I personally think slightly shorter combos is a step in the right direction but if someone fears losing long combos it's usually because they haven't seen 17-24 hit juggles.

It does seem like options to launch has been reduced and it's moreso based on crushing blow mechanic being the catalyst for juggles and damage which doesn't mean it's a bad thing just some are concerned it could be.

I'm a firm believer we can't know one way or another without having considerable lab time with these characters after the final version of the game is out ofc.

I didn't start the thread to say MK11 is shit or anything just to see what others first impressions of the combo system is.
Maybe some feel it's lackluster?
Maybe some feel it's very diverse and complex?
Maybe some feel it's neither here nor there?
I'm not against other perspectives and welcome them in all forms
What I'm not about is changing the game hastily without having it roll first and hands on understanding of the mechanics.

 

[BecomingDeath13]

Personally, I think the combos are fine. I know some people that are concerned with the breakaway mechanic, but even that looks fine.

Unfortunately I think a lot of concern people have is unwarranted. The beta is 'coming in hot' and I'm sure people are going to have all kinds of crazy shit posted online by the end of it.

This isn't mkx though, it's a brand new game with brand new mechanics. I know comparing it to the previous game is natural and all, but we should take this game for what it is. Watching people with limited experience demonstrate the game is nothing compared to what we'll be seeing later on when people actually get lab time.

I'm curious though if a breakaway kills the combo outright. If that's the case, you can bait them and probably fuck them with an unscaled 12% uppercut on their way to the ground. So if your combo was 28% and they broke at 15%. The 12% from the uppercut would only be 1% shy of the original combo. Then they're on the ground with no meter and no way to wake up. Then the okizeme games begin.

 

[spidey300]

the combo system definitely has potential and people are complaining about what they see on the surface but I have no doubt that nrs might have nerfed lengthy combos because of casuals

 

[Sablicious]

+ Finishing comboes with KB's, is a good addition: 1) it removes the reliance of cinematic combat from the nary-used 'supers' (X-Rays) and stage-specific interactables, to the core gameplay -- something I've yearned for for years, and an idea which the likes of Tekken 7, too, have seemed to come on board with (re. the game's admittedly rather janky slow-mo close-ups); and 2) it mixes up the monotony of the comboes that are inherently rather air-juggle-centric and samey to look at otherwise.

+ The touted lesser focus on longer combo strings (*assuming 10+ hits), is a welcome change. Again, because the same-iness of the mechanic leads to rather meh-looking chains (esp. when done in the notorious "death korners" -- c.LP, c.LP, c.LP, c.LP...*). Of course, diversity in attack strings is obviously of particular import in this case, and if the claimed lower combo hit-counts are not replaced with compensatory diversity, the change may be seen as lamentable--in the final wash-up.

- No mention of making the comboes more 'organic' -- suggesting the trademark 'stilted' attack strings will still be in effect. A move or nod towards more 'traditional' or 'manual' combo system would have been nice to see (...I think it may have even speculate from early leaks); rather than the same, rote combo chains that the developer in question is know for. Even if only as much as in the ability to interrupt a 1,2,3 canned combo chain at the '2' mark, it would still serve to 'soften' the rigidity of the system. Case in point: In Injustiece 2, Darkseid's 1,2,3,2 combo was useless for anything but said rote string -- it could not be interrupted or experimented with. This kind of canned mechanic takes control out of the players' hands and simply tasks them with, effectively, playing the game for the developer, as the developer wanted.

 

[mastermalone]

Long combos doesn't have to translate to high damage. They can scale damage without removing diversity.

I personally think slightly shorter combos is a step in the right direction but if someone fears losing long combos it's usually because they haven't seen 17-24 hit juggles.

It does seem like options to launch has been reduced and it's moreso based on crushing blow mechanic being the catalyst for juggles and damage which doesn't mean it's a bad thing just some are concerned it could be.

I'm a firm believer we can't know one way or another without having considerable lab time with these characters after the final version of the game is out ofc.

I didn't start the thread to say MK11 is shit or anything just to see what others first impressions of the combo system is.
Maybe some feel it's lackluster?
Maybe some feel it's very diverse and complex?
Maybe some feel it's neither here nor there?
I'm not against other perspectives and welcome them in all forms
What I'm not about is changing the game hastily without having it roll first and hands on understanding of the mechanics.

I'm with you 100%. I wrote that reply because I wanted to also stress that long, drawn out combos that kill in just 2 touches can ruin the experience. I love MKX, but you can get taken out with just two mistakes.

 

[MrWarMachine]

I’m torn on the long combo’s

in one sense, it’s cool to watch pro’s go back and forth with a 15-20 hitter and it feels awesome when you learn one. but on the other hand it can get kind boring to watch the same 2-3 optimal combos per character every tournament for like 3 years

i’d rather watch 5-10 shorter, more situational combos, and as a player actually feel like i’m in a fight than in a combo exhibition with occasional breakers.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

Every time I get caught in an unblockable combo I want to smash my pad. 30% out of unblockable attack is just too much

 

[xenogorgeous]

without combo breakers , it's better for the spectator view point a more short combo system, this make the match take long a bit more to be over, what is good entertainment, instead of seeing always the same "over and over again" shit 1 or 2 long combo strings that fast up everything and ends the match in a blink of eye !

 

[leoj89]

I can almost guarantee that the once combo artist get a hold of the game that they'll be doing stuff the devs didn't think were possible.

My main gripe with long combos in MKX was I felt that the opponent getting juggled should have received more meter in order to break away.

 

[ji-high]

- No mention of making the comboes more 'organic' -- suggesting the trademark 'stilted' attack strings will still be in effect. A move or nod towards more 'traditional' or 'manual' combo system would have been nice to see (...I think it may have even speculate from early leaks); rather than the same, rote combo chains that the developer in question is know for. Even if only as much as in the ability to interrupt a 1,2,3 canned combo chain at the '2' mark, it would still serve to 'soften' the rigidity of the system. Case in point: In Injustiece 2, Darkseid's 1,2,3,2 combo was useless for anything but said rote string -- it could not be interrupted or experimented with. This kind of canned mechanic takes control out of the players' hands and simply tasks them with, effectively, playing the game for the developer, as the developer wanted.

This has always been my biggest gripe with NRS games to be honest. i didn't see anything so far suggesting that will change but i'm still hopeful

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I’m torn on the long combo’s

in one sense, it’s cool to watch pro’s go back and forth with a 15-20 hitter and it feels awesome when you learn one. but on the other hand it can get kind boring to watch the same 2-3 optimal combos per character every tournament for like 3 years

i’d rather watch 5-10 shorter, more situational combos, and as a player actually feel like i’m in a fight than in a combo exhibition with occasional breakers.

I get where you are coming from but for me I'd have to see how they are in the finalized version of the game to know if short combos was a good idea.
I ultimately wanted slightly smaller combos than MKX in the sense after so many hits the characters just drop rapidly to the ground but still allow 17 hit Combos and make it juggle multiple times but make the juggle short where it's not a slow juggle like MKX Kitana fan/vortex.