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Sub-Zero General Discussion Thread

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LockM

LockM

Mortal
Subby looks cool.

He seems to have a move called Artic Trap which basically functions the same as the Ice Clone but the startup is much longer, which is fair. At that point just make it the Ice Clone then instead of a glowing ball.
 
BecomingDeath13

BecomingDeath13

"You won't winter over?" Who the fuck wrote that?
LockM said:
At that point just make it the Ice Clone then instead of a glowing ball.
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Guarantee they turned it into an orb for hitbox properties. The clone has a much larger hitbox than an ice orb. Meaning people can most likely jump over it or maybe even safely low poke underneath it.
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
BecomingDeath13 said:
Guarantee they turned it into an orb for hitbox properties. The clone has a much larger hitbox than an ice orb. Meaning people can most likely jump over it or maybe even safely low poke underneath it.
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It looks a lot cooler than ice clone for sure.

But let's face it, that's why everyone hated the ice clone. They couldn't jump over it easily. And anything that stops noob strategies gets all the hate.
 
ChaosTheory

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
Arctic Trap, from what I've seen, won't be used much like Ice Clone for the most part. Unless the Amplified version has far quicker start-up, it doesn't look useful as a cancel on-block (if you can cancel into it at all). So that's a big difference in utility mid-screen.

However, in the corner, I could see a heavy-advantage ender allowing time for a free Arctic Trap setup. It's possible he would do without extra toys mid-screen but if he knocked you down in the corner, it's real tough on the opponent.
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Warrior
Anyone else a bit bummed about Kold Shoulder replacing Slide? Why can't you have both? MKX Reptile had a charge and a Slide. If the Slide still goes under projectiles it's a bit too much to ask.

Also, one move no one is showing or talking about is the Air Polar Axe. If it's OH it might be a ver good tool for insta air options or after JIP options, and might even allow Rising Ice to combo without meter.

So far the moves I'm the most interested on for a build are Kreeping Ice to have a reliable cancel on block, Air Polar Axe and either Frigid Storm or Death-Cicle Barrage, probably the later for the end of round chip.

Deep Freeze being 2 slots is a bit too much even if the anti zoning effect was great ib MKX.
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Warrior
HeavyNorse said:
Mustard's hot take on the ice clone:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HorribleEphemeralPastaWoofer
Click to expand...
Honestly, playing Cryomancer I disliked the Klone because I knew the other variations were handicapped because of the whole moveset being toned down to compensate for that move, so without it there is a lot of potential.

That said, there are ways you could have the klone in the game without it being so bad:

- Make the pose completly vertical, Subbie gets on some heroic firm poise with no limbs going out so it's really just a vertical rectangular hitbox. Make him even retreat a step in the process so you don't get issues with knocked down opponents not allowing you to make the klone and also to force some breath room in the corner.

- If that's not enough, make it the enchanced version of a parry: normal move, Sub-Zero freezes himself on the heroic pose mentioned, EX version he gets out of the statue leaving it there for a bar.
 
Krankk

Krankk

Smoke & Noob & Rain
Has Tom Brady voiced his opinion on the new Sub-Zero yet? Any videos or something along the lines?
 
Imperium

Imperium

Noob
So what have we identified as Subzero's crushing blows so far? We know characters have around 5-6 crushing blows each. So far I've seen;

- 3 ex slides
- Uppercut counter hit
- incorrect throw tech

Are there any others you guys have seen through the released gameplay? I believe I saw one with one of his kick attacks.
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Lokheit said:
Anyone else a bit bummed about Kold Shoulder replacing Slide? Why can't you have both? MKX Reptile had a charge and a Slide. If the Slide still goes under projectiles it's a bit too much to ask.

Also, one move no one is showing or talking about is the Air Polar Axe. If it's OH it might be a ver good tool for insta air options or after JIP options, and might even allow Rising Ice to combo without meter.

So far the moves I'm the most interested on for a build are Kreeping Ice to have a reliable cancel on block, Air Polar Axe and either Frigid Storm or Death-Cicle Barrage, probably the later for the end of round chip.

Deep Freeze being 2 slots is a bit too much even if the anti zoning effect was great ib MKX.
Click to expand...
I'm very interested in the air polar axe being that I was a WW main who used her air down shield liberally. I feel like if you combine that with frigid storm and death cicle barrage you may have a decent defensive sub zero and not have to play new fangled rush down sub (of which I'm not a fan).

He also supposedly has a lot of good advancing moves so you can play back, throw projectiles, and space out approaching players and punish them with his normals.
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Warrior
STB Sgt Reed said:
I'm very interested in the air polar axe being that I was a WW main who used her air down shield liberally. I feel like if you combine that with frigid storm and death cicle barrage you may have a decent defensive sub zero and not have to play new fangled rush down sub (of which I'm not a fan).

He also supposedly has a lot of good advancing moves so you can play back, throw projectiles, and space out approaching players and punish them with his normals.
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Yeah, more than a true rush down character he looks more like a whiff punisher (then again, it seems like everyone is molded that way in this game with the focus on footsies). Cryomancer was supposed to be a punish variation but it failed at that, let's see how klone-less core Sub-Zero performs with good normals.

Diagonal aerial projectiles are my favorite kind as they allow you to be a bit creative and generally with the DB execution are easier to instant air.
 
neveradestroyer

neveradestroyer

Kombatant
Cryomancer only failed because some genius thought that it having a mediocre command crap would warrant to have a big damage nerf.. He got nerfed on everything. He lost his only plus frames. the armor in the command crap is only one hit with a t-Rex hit box. his PP was damage nerfed and also his hammers were nerfed. Imagine... a character that can not zone having a mediocre damage. That is Crap-o-mancer.
 
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Lokheit

Lokheit

Warrior
Worth noting, apparently the Icicle Barrage doesn't reach fullscreen, so it's more of a footsies/space control tool with the bonus of being strong for chip than a true zoning tool (at least against true zoners).
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I just hope that the ice orb is in the base list of abilities of one of those base variations. This would replace the IK. And I hope we see the old MB Iceball in the base variations, which would be a good counter-zoning. Otherwise, find a way to deal with this stupidity of the zoning, or tell NRS dudes to tone the zoning down. Scorpion and Raiden have moves to get closer to the zoners (and Mileena, if she makes it), and other characters have tools to deal with them.

If this is final, then I predict SZ to be bottom tier and I might move to Fujin (if he ever makes it) or to never play this game.
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
STB Sgt Reed said:
It looks a lot cooler than ice clone for sure.

But let's face it, that's why everyone hated the ice clone. They couldn't jump over it easily. And anything that stops noob strategies gets all the hate.
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There was a way to jump over it easily in corner. The interactables. They could have easily zone him just to disable the IK. Those guys who hated him were truly noobs. Learn to lab before spouting nonsense out there with your whinings.
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Lokheit said:
Worth noting, apparently the Icicle Barrage doesn't reach fullscreen, so it's more of a footsies/space control tool with the bonus of being strong for chip than a true zoning tool (at least against true zoners).
Click to expand...
Aw really? Didn't know that. May have to swap it for something else then.

I just wanna know what the damn base variations are so I know what moves are coupled together that way I can see what kind of strategy I'll have to play with. These combinations I want may not even be possible. =/
 
ColdSpine

ColdSpine

"I wore those colors before you"
taking away ice clone from subzero is like taking away sonic booms or flash kicks from guile in sf.

they are annoying moves that control space and dictate the pace of the match where you really have to be patient and slowley think your way in.

this makes me sad that one of the most iconic moves is gone now, it really defined subzero and took neutral to a whole new level.
 
Tanno

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
HeavyNorse said:
Guile has had Sonic Boom and Flash Kick since day one.
Sub-Zero didn't get Ice Clone before MK3.

Also... Hot take from Mustard on this regard:
https://www.twitch.tv/pndketchup/clip/HorribleEphemeralPastaWoofer
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Ah yes, because things like runes that give you super armor or buddy characters that create hard to blockables or restands that give free 50/50s that loop right back to restands are SOOOOO much better designed than an Ice Clone that makes you have to think just a wee bit more about how you approach and something that can be broken with projectiles or armor or proximity. lol k
 
ColdSpine

ColdSpine

"I wore those colors before you"
crosshair271

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
Tanno said:
He had IK since MK2, to be more precise. He didn't have IK at MK1. IK was Liang's trademark move.

And that Ice Orb is slower than the IK itself. And we don't know if it can absorb any incoming projectile.
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Tanno you really should do your research before posting. He got it in MK3 known as Sub-Xerox from the original guide book.

As far as moves being good or bad we'll just have to wait it out and go from there. It sucks Xerox is gone but if the new moves aren't sufficient NRS will never hear the end of it from us.
 
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