Post Patch Batman MU chart Injustice 2

[SonicNinja3532]

My updated MU chart, maybe the final version if there are no more patches to this game:

Even
Atrocitus
Batman
Black Adam
Black Manta
Blue Beetle
Catwoman
Flash
Poison Ivy
Red Hood
Robin
Supergirl

Winning
Bane
Black Canary
Braniac
Cheetah
Cyborg
Darkseid
Grodd
Green Lantern
Raiden
Scarecrow
Sub Zero
Superman
Swamp Thing
TMNT (Except Mikey)

Losing
Aquaman
Atom
Dr Fate
Green Arrow
Harley
Starfire

More xp
Captain Cold (Even)
Deadshot (Winning)
Firestorm (Losing)
Hellboy (Even)
Joker (Winning)
Mikey (Even)
Wonder Woman (Losing)

Thoughts @ForeverKing ?

I'd probably add RH to losing, and firestorm to even but other wise i agree.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

That said though since RH's nerfs it could be a even mu

 

[Crusty]

That said though since RH's nerfs it could be a even mu

RH still beats him for all the reasons mentioned prior.

 

[seakaybe]

Can provide an explanation if needed.

Even though they are both losing match ups, how do you handle Atom and Starfire? I don’t mind losing but I hate getting raped.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Can provide an explanation if needed.

Hi. Supergirl was bad (=losing?) match up due to her mobility and her stuffs for that playstyle. What did it make even?
I know she got a bit nerf on D1 (which is good for batman too) but other apects which made it a tough seem the same.

Supergirl was bad match up even before batman trait / J2 nerf however I do not know how supergirl changed that time.

I appreciate your list and explanation thoughts as well.

 

[ATP2014]

Hi. Supergirl was bad (=losing?) match up due to her mobility and her stuffs for that playstyle. What did it make even?
I know she got a bit nerf on D1 (which is good for batman too) but other apects which made it a tough seem the same.

Supergirl was bad match up even before batman trait / J2 nerf however I do not know how supergirl changed that time.

I appreciate your list and explanation thoughts as well.

Supergirl still controls the pace of the match with lasers and her footsies, so Batman still has to approach her. However, the d1 nerf allows Batman to have more options up close.

D1 pre-patch could:
- Catch Batman's backdash/njp after f23 on block
- Catch Batman trying to challenge after mb breath on block
- Could low profile Batman f23 after certain blocked sequences (12, f3, mb up batarang)
- Was easier to low profile 1 trait bat if released at close range

With the nerf, Supergirl now has to use different tools in these situations that are either riskier (d2) or have holes that can be interrupted (b12 breath). On top of the fact that Batman's good d2 has always kept her jump-ins in check, and he has always done more dmg.

 

[ATP2014]

Also to clarify, the MU was possibly even in the last patch, since Batman could still work Supergirl down to the corner with patience. Trait bats also allowed Batman to compete, and in many cases outright win in footsies.

In the patch before that where Batman had his broke j2, his vortex off MB grapple and his old trait recharge time, he almost definitely won vs Supergirl. I believe it was considered even until the vortex started being used to its maximum potential. Batman was probably top 3 in that version.

 

[ATP2014]

Even though they are both losing match ups, how do you handle Atom and Starfire? I don’t mind losing but I hate getting raped.

I'll be honest, I haven't figured out Starfire just yet. Best bets seem to just crouch in mid-range with bats and wait for her to waste her trait. Once that's gone, it is easier to move in. But @ForeverKing thinks its even so he may have more insight.

For Atom, a few pointers that might help:

- Do not call your trait until Atom has finished using his trait. It's basically impossible to stop Atom from shrinking and flying all over the place, so don't waste your 3 bats until he finishes his sequence.

- Make sure you punish those MB teleports. First step to doing this is holding straight down to block. Next, understand that mb teleport is extremely negative on block, so make sure to use 123 or 223 to get max damage. As Batman, you have to make sure you take advanrage of your high dmg.

- Don't try to jump Atom's projectile. The slow speed will trick you and you can get clipped. Just walk and crouch through it.

- Try and end every combo with MB grapple. Atom has a strong wakeup mind game between MB teleport (which you have to hold down for) and the Atom charge, which is a high and sends him over you and is almost unpunishable. Also, regular teleport is very hard for Batman to punish due to Atom low-profiling lots of Batman's punish options. Restands are key to prevent this.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Supergirl still controls the pace of the match with lasers and her footsies, so Batman still has to approach her. However, the d1 nerf allows Batman to have more options up close.

D1 pre-patch could:
- Catch Batman's backdash/njp after f23 on block
- Catch Batman trying to challenge after mb breath on block
- Could low profile Batman f23 after certain blocked sequences (12, f3, mb up batarang)
- Was easier to low profile 1 trait bat if released at close range

With the nerf, Supergirl now has to use different tools in these situations that are either riskier (d2) or have holes that can be interrupted (b12 breath). On top of the fact that Batman's good d2 has always kept her jump-ins in check, and he has always done more dmg.

Hm now supergirl has 9F D1 but still 8F D3 which has also good range (yes D1 was 1F faster AND better range).

Wow it looks hell of a difference I did not even notice. Yes the purpose of the nerf was to at least tone done supergirl up close (and have a but weaker area).
Thank you!

So batman can operate a bit better up-close so the hard work (to approach.sh) can be paid off.

Thank you!

 

[ATP2014]

RH still beats him for all the reasons mentioned prior.

I actually think the nerf to the 323 hkd was the final straw that changed the MU from losing to even. Batman's ability to escape these mixups now makes it harder for Red Hood to make a comeback if needed, and Batman already did more dmg from the beginning.

The old meter build nerf also affects Red Hood more than Batman in this MU, since Batman has to approach. And in general, I personally have found it easier to see and react to Red Hood's high strings (b1, f2) that are most often used in footsies, and interrupt with a d2.

However, I haven't played a good Red Hood in a while and I'm always down for some more exp.

 

[ATP2014]

Hm now supergirl has 9F D1 but still 8F D3 which has also good range (yes D1 was 1F faster AND better range).

Wow it looks hell of a difference I did not even notice. Yes the purpose of the nerf was to at least tone done supergirl up close (and have a but weaker area).
Thank you!

So batman can operate a bit better up-close so the hard work (to approach.sh) can be paid off.

Thank you!

Yea, D3 can still do a lot of the same things that D1 used to do. But the big difference is, D3 isn't a full combo. And D3 is safe, but decently minus (-5 I think?) so Supergirl can't keep pressing it over and over.

 

[Crusty]

I actually think the nerf to the 323 hkd was the final straw that changed the MU from losing to even. Batman's ability to escape these mixups now makes it harder for Red Hood to make a comeback if needed, and Batman already did more dmg from the beginning.

The old meter build nerf also affects Red Hood more than Batman in this MU, since Batman has to approach. And in general, I personally have found it easier to see and react to Red Hood's high strings (b1, f2) that are most often used in footsies, and interrupt with a d2.

However, I haven't played a good Red Hood in a while and I'm always down for some more exp.

The nerf to his 323 was a nonfactor but still nevertheless annoying to RH players. The nerf only gives people slightly more options to escape his oki. Even with that nerf RH still has 112 among other strings to cancel into mines.

RH's meterbuild nerf was drastically less prominent compared to Batman. In the zoning war, RH wins since most if not all of his projectiles do more damage and build more meter over a shorter period of time. Lunge still interrupts Batman's b23 easily and still punishes it unless he cancels into batarang.Batman still cannot punish RH's overhead without exactly 3 bats out. Also, unless Batman expects it (he's not reacting to a 9 frame charge), he can't do anything about it in neutral.

RH should never be using b1 or f2 in footsies anyway unless after staggers since both are highs and f23 has 40 frames of recovery. Good RH players use b2 over both those options. I'm down to play whenever my schedule lets me.

 

[Rude]

How should Batman best approach the Brainiac match up?

Match up feels very overwhelming once you're knocked down, particularly on background bounce stages.

 

[SaucyD0ge]

How should Batman best approach the Brainiac match up?

Match up feels very overwhelming once you're knocked down, particularly on background bounce stages.

Make sure you avoid getting okied by Brain, use air escapes/tech rolls.
All Batman can do in this mu is to deny Brainiac all of his movement and stall for trait bats.And then do Batman things.

 

[Rude]

Make sure you avoid getting okied by Brain, use air escapes/tech rolls.
All Batman can do in this mu is to deny Brainiac all of his movement and stall for trait bats.And then do Batman things.

This is very vague. How do you avoid getting oki'd? This character has ambiguous cross ups and set ups after knockdowns that force you to guess.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

How should Batman best approach the Brainiac match up?

Match up feels very overwhelming once you're knocked down, particularly on background bounce stages.

From my experience this is a mu where you have to play keepaway to the max. Up batarang shuts down his approach easily, forcing him to work his way in. You have to be cautious of his trait however due to the fact that he can hold it, but if he tries to use it to cover an approach, try to challenge the approach with a batarang. Him trying to jump in with the trait covering looks a lot scarier than it actually is, simply throwing an up batarang as the trait is coming will still keep him out, depending on the situation, you can still recover before trait hits.

Also, divekick shenanigans arent particularly scary as you can punish him for it relatively well. Any divekick that isnt max range is d2 punishable iirc, and the meter burn has a massive gap that you can d2 and maybe even s1 punish. Adding to that, having trait out makes dealing with divekick particularly easy since you can punish is regardless of meterburn. On oki like anyone else he can give batman a hard time, I'm not too well versed on his knockdown pressure so I can't really give too much advice towards that. Hope I helped.

 

[jcbowie]

How should Batman best approach the Brainiac match up?

Match up feels very overwhelming once you're knocked down, particularly on background bounce stages.

Up-batarang. Up-batarang in neutral. Up-batarang MB on wakeup. Up-batarang to start combos. Up batarang.

It's a joke but it's also kind of not. Brainiac isn't that fast and most of his Oki options are reactable/beatable I've found. The divekick is the only real speedy thing he has, and delayed wakeup gets you out of a lot of those setups.

 

[The_Tile]

How should Batman best approach the Brainiac match up?

Match up feels very overwhelming once you're knocked down, particularly on background bounce stages.

I might be wrong, but I read somewhere that you must use up batarang

 

[Marinjuana]

As a Brainiac player I look at Batman with trait out at full screen and just wonder what the hell I'm supposed to do. His walk speed is slow so deny him the air. Zone him out heavily, and make good use of delayed wakeup, your slide and even your parry if they are getting too trigger happy with B12s and F3s on knockdown. Check your ranges too, you can reversal some of his normals cancelled into trait summon. Also definitely worth practicing stuffing his wakeup, particularly in the corner. He's also one of the tallest characters in the game so I'd imagine that this makes your jump ins that much better.