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Darkseid - General Strategies and Discussion

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
What adjustment would you like to the red and blue demons? Also, why the demons over his zoning or lack of neutral?
Make red demon could give darkseid like a buff,so as soon as he summons it it could make his zoning have less recovery or give him like a damage buff or health regen or something,nakr blue demon shot a mid or charge a mid but make its start up have more recovery.
 

kcd117

Noob
He probably has the worst footsie range normals in the game, but that's alright since he is all about the mix.
With that said, I think it would be better for the game in general if he received a few changes:
1 Low laser should be meter burnable to launch and be -3, he would sent a second laser beam but it would have a gap in between lasers.
2 Make f2 faster, like 8/9 frame-ish, or make it a mid. This move could be good for a fast whiff punisher or a decent footsie tool, rn it feels kinda pointless tbh.
3 Damage scaling on mb stomp. If the previous changes are made there is no reason why he should keep the current dmg output, 32-35% dmg combos would be more than enough if he is not helpless in neutral without his trait.
 
who do you guys think are darkseids worst MUs?

Personally I think that ba, supergirl, ww, aqua and cw all give him the hardest time

however i think there are newcomers to the bad Mus which are hellboy, buffed scarecrow and a hard 5-5 with firestorm.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
I think they should somehow make his zoning more threatening, so his whole game plan isn't just "Sit fullscreen till traits ready -> get trait -> mix -> repeat". I feel like he's supposed to be a momentum heavy character who is always dictating the pace of the match. I don't really mind him having kind of trash footsies if they made his fullscreen game kind of better because at the moment lasers don't feel very hard to fight against because they have a long recovery time so you just walk you're way in or MB roll and punish him on a read.

If you manage to get past his zoning and get into an area where he can't zone but also can't go for mix is where you want to be against this character. At the moment that doesn't feel like a hard area to get to.

I think his 50/50s are fine, he lives and dies by them like others have said, he either guesses right and makes you take a probably 50%ish combo or he is wrong and eats damage himself.

His damage is insane, his counter zoning is really strong, but he can't really keep people out for a long time, and then you just walk your way into footsie range and just play that range, where he is very very bad due to having nearly no options at that range.

Just my 2 cents on the character, I've been picking him up recently as a counter pick to some zoners and that's just the problems I think he has and buffs he could use based on my little experience.
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
who do you guys think are darkseids worst MUs?

Personally I think that ba, supergirl, ww, aqua and cw all give him the hardest time

however i think there are newcomers to the bad Mus which are hellboy, buffed scarecrow and a hard 5-5 with firestorm.
BA is a 5-5, aqua is a 5-5, and flash is def his worst mu imo.
 
BA is a 5-5, aqua is a 5-5, and flash is def his worst mu imo.
I forgot about flash that mu is aids but no ba and aqua are not 5-5

ive seen youre reasoning for aqua being a 5-5 and it just doesnt make sense. he doesnt have to from the deep when youre punishing distance away. aquaman still has all his tools from earlier when he was considered his worst MU and theres no real reason that he would be even as long as the aquaman is semi competent. the entire time darkseid has to be taking yolo risks and hoping they work.

Ba can get in way too easily because of his getting in tools and because he can shut down lasers almost completely. plus ba is one of the few that can consistently stuff darkseid wakeup and when you look at Ba's damage on punish, his d2, his black magic challenging trait setups and overall out footsing, he def wins the mu. he gets a full combo off of d1 interrupt so its also hard to enfore knee pressure. id say its almost worse than or maybe worse than flash.
I can see where youre coming from, I usually beat BAs but its because they dont know the mu at all and I can just get away with a lot of stuff but if any of them actually knew, darkseid wouldnt really stand a chance.
 
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EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
I forgot about flash that mu is aids but no ba and aqua are not 5-5

ive seen youre reasoning for aqua being a 5-5 and it just doesnt make sense. he doesnt have to from the deep when youre punishing distance away. aquaman still has all his tools from earlier when he was considered his worst MU and theres no real reason that he would be even as long as the aquaman is semi competent.

Ba can get in way too easily because of his getting in tools and because he can shut down lasers almost completely. plus ba is one of the few that can consistently stuff darkseid wakeup and when you look at Ba's damage on punish, his d2, his black magic challenging trait setups and overall out footsing, he def wins the mu. he gets a full combo off of d1 interrupt so its also hard to enfore knee pressure. id say its almost worse than or maybe worse than flash.
I can see where youre coming from, I usually beat BAs but its because they dont know the mu at all and I can just get away with a lot of stuff but if any of them actually knew, darkseid wouldnt really stand a chance.
The aquaman is mu is 5-5 and i do play semi competent aquaman players u just have to be patient, if you get into the range where ftd is punishable he cant just throw it out, the reason the mu is 5-5 is because of the dami aquaman gets, aquaman has to touch darkseid like 3-4 times to get the same dami as one darkseid mix, the BA mu is 5-5 and again i play ppl like dragon, and ominous and i think the mus def a 5-5 ia lasers keep bladam from just throwin out dive kick, in the corner bladam has to hold a lot of mix, bladam doesnt outzone him either, the d1 into combo is a meme, 95 percent of the time its d1 lighting hands. And it isnt hard to enforce knee pressure lol. I play most of my mus at the highest possible level, and thats what i base them off of.
 
The aquaman is mu is 5-5 and i do play semi competent aquaman players u just have to be patient, if you get into the range where ftd is punishable he cant just throw it out, the reason the mu is 5-5 is because of the dami aquaman gets, aquaman has to touch darkseid like 3-4 times to get the same dami as one darkseid mix, the BA mu is 5-5 and again i play ppl like dragon, and ominous and i think the mus def a 5-5 ia lasers keep bladam from just throwin out dive kick, in the corner bladam has to hold a lot of mix, bladam doesnt outzone him either, the d1 into combo is a meme, 95 percent of the time its d1 lighting hands. And it isnt hard to enforce knee pressure lol. I play most of my mus at the highest possible level, and thats what i base them off of.
well then they clearly dont know the mu lmao. you cant ia lasers against ba. thats like saying ia lasers against aquaman. the only way to even punish a black magic reversal after the first ia laser is youd have to do a very ia laser from fullscreen and then do a delayed one to avoid the black magic. as soon as you land after this you cant do another otherwise youll get caught. you could do a grounded one for the trade but then they could just divekick, low lightning or duck it and then punish it. thats not even mentioning the fact that your first ia laser couldve been caught then too and he couldve mb rolled in during any of that. Also the ba could just have decent reactions and know just to walk forward and react to the lasers. this is such a meme, whenever i play ba I hope that the opponents think what youre saying. if the opponent is already committing to poking your plus frames then they are def going to do d1 trait combo. just because you play good players it doesnt instantly mean they know the mu. I bet dragon barely if at all knows all obscure MUs to a T.

Yea if you get in the range of from the deep he cant just throw it out and he knows this. what are you going to do? walk him down to the corner with darkseid??? lmao. he will obv out neutral you from there and there wont be anything you can do. getting consistent mix on aqua is literally almost impossible. even when you do you seem to leave out the fact that you will just have to sit there and take chip while waiting for trait. sure youre right, if you go for yolo tele on a from the deep read and you guess right youll get crazy damage in comparison but its a huge risk that any patient player will blow up 9 times out of 10.
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
well then they clearly dont know the mu lmao. you cant ia lasers against ba. thats like saying ia lasers against aquaman. the only way to even punish a black magic reversal after the first ia laser is youd have to do a very ia laser from fullscreen and then do a delayed one to avoid the black magic. as soon as you land after this you cant do another otherwise youll get caught. you could do a grounded one for the trade but then they could just divekick, low lightning or duck it and then punish it. thats not even mentioning the fact that your first ia laser couldve been caught then too and he couldve mb rolled in during any of that. Also the ba could just have decent reactions and know just to walk forward and react to the lasers. this is such a meme, whenever i play ba I hope that the opponents think what youre saying. if the opponent is already committing to poking your plus frames then they are def going to do d1 trait combo. just because you play good players it doesnt instantly mean they know the mu. I bet dragon barely if at all knows all obscure MUs to a T.

Yea if you get in the range of from the deep he cant just throw it out and he knows this. what are you going to do? walk him down to the corner with darkseid??? lmao. he will obv out neutral you from there and there wont be anything you can do. getting consistent mix on aqua is literally almost impossible. even when you do you seem to leave out the fact that you will just have to sit there and take chip while waiting for trait. sure youre right, if you go for yolo tele on a from the deep read and you guess right youll get crazy damage in comparison but its a huge risk that any patient player will blow up 9 times out of 10.
Yah from reading this you def dont play these mus correctly. However i did mean to say delay the air lasers so thats on me, but mixing up lasers is good vs bladam it keeps him in check, against many other zoners his checks are braindead not against darkseid, and he has to get in on him which makes mixing him easier, a lot of these things tha you are saying assumes that ur oppoent is literally god and making clairovyant reads with you not baiting anything out, you dont need to spam lasers 24 7 as darkseid, thats why you do things to mixup ur lasers, demons, teles, react to dashes , bait jumps etc, ba has to get in on darkseid. Against aqua you can enforce the mix if you know how, if you dont its a problem, and yes i bait aquamans ftd and other things, if they dont ftd and just walk back you can build meter and wait for trait, and i never yolo tele. Anyway i feel the best way to prove you wrong, is too play this bladams/aquamans that play the mus the way ur describing.
 
not if he says that mu is even.
We can agree to disagree, but it is not a farfetched concept. AM damage got bodied after the EVO patch. We can agree to disagree, but you can't be that naive to believe that his sparring partners do not know their characters well enough to go through those scenarios.
 
Alright, I started this whole buff shenanigan lets talk some strategies, setups, and mind-games. What are some of your favorite tools versus certain characters in this game?
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
We can agree to disagree, but it is not a farfetched concept. AM damage got bodied after the EVO patch. We can agree to disagree, but you can't be that naive to believe that his sparring partners do not know their characters well enough to go through those scenarios.
The greatest os is when i know how to play supposdely "bad mus " well against good players, but the reason their losing is lack of mu knowledge especially when i play them multiple times in long sets and they lab the mu.
 
The greatest os is when i know how to play supposdely "bad mus " well against good players, but the reason their losing is lack of mu knowledge especially when i play them multiple times in long sets and they lab the mu.
What do you like to do after a d1 check? Also what happened to your Darkseid guide? I bet those firestorm buffs through that out the window? :DOGE
 
Yah from reading this you def dont play these mus correctly. However i did mean to say delay the air lasers so thats on me, but mixing up lasers is good vs bladam it keeps him in check, against many other zoners his checks are braindead not against darkseid, and he has to get in on him which makes mixing him easier, a lot of these things tha you are saying assumes that ur oppoent is literally god and making clairovyant reads with you not baiting anything out, you dont need to spam lasers 24 7 as darkseid, thats why you do things to mixup ur lasers, demons, teles, react to dashes , bait jumps etc, ba has to get in on darkseid. Against aqua you can enforce the mix if you know how, if you dont its a problem, and yes i bait aquamans ftd and other things, if they dont ftd and just walk back you can build meter and wait for trait, and i never yolo tele. Anyway i feel the best way to prove you wrong, is too play this bladams/aquamans that play the mus the way ur describing.
i already explained why its not hard for ba to get in on him. he cant do back to back delayed lasers and even if he could its not like it would keep out ba. youve got a make a hard read everytime you want to use your lasers trait, teles and anything else thats the point. when you say I play it wrong because I assume my opponents are gods i get confused. didnt you call me a gimmicky player? now im the one that needs to start using gimmicks? Sure it will catch the opponents like i said if they dont know the meta to the mu however if the player actually knows the mu youre screwed.

lol what you mean meter build you just sit there and wait if you dont want to get hit. sure you can wait for him to from the deep you and then get some setups after you block it however its even harder than any other MUs only other MUs you can zone.
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
What do you like to do after a d1 check? Also what happened to your Darkseid guide? I bet those firestorm buffs through that out the window? :DOGE
Yah the darkseid guide never happened cuz of eleague grind, and now im on the nec grind lol. After someone pokes me i usually just go with a d1 xxknee, or a reversal grab or something, tho in injustice d1s combo and people love to mash d1s i just counter poke, Off a d1 mind games i condition them with xx knee, knee has good hit advantage and people typically try to press buttons bcs it techrollable, so il condition with d1 knee and grab, and a good os is they backdash ur d1 xx knee wont come out so if i see them backdash il do a low laser after a whiffed d1 since most buttons dont reach and ur in advantage. Then i start doing like jump 3s and stomp after ive conditioned them.
 
Yah the darkseid guide never happened cuz of eleague grind, and now im on the nec grind lol. After someone pokes me i usually just go with a d1 xxknee, or a reversal grab or something, tho in injustice d1s combo and people love to mash d1s i just counter poke, Off a d1 mind games i condition them with xx knee, knee has good hit advantage and people typically try to press buttons bcs it techrollable, so il condition with d1 knee and grab, and a good os is they backdash ur d1 xx knee wont come out so if i see them backdash il do a low laser after a whiffed d1 since most buttons dont reach and ur in advantage. Then i start doing like jump 3s and stomp after ive conditioned them.

Interesting, why don't you do 2,1 over xxknee? how do you handle the corner game? Do you think the green demon is the still optimal over red in the corner? Especially since the red demon has so much scaled damage?
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
i already explained why its not hard for ba to get in on him. he cant do back to back delayed lasers and even if he could its not like it would keep out ba. youve got a make a hard read everytime you want to use your lasers trait, teles and anything else thats the point. when you say I play it wrong because I assume my opponents are gods i get confused. didnt you call me a gimmicky player? now im the one that needs to start using gimmicks? Sure it will catch the opponents like i said if they dont know the meta to the mu however if the player actually knows the mu youre screwed.

lol what you mean meter build you just sit there and wait if you dont want to get hit. sure you can wait for him to from the deep you and then get some setups after you block it however its even harder than any other MUs only other MUs you can zone.
We are going in circles like i said you judge this based on playing the mu with certain players, well let me play these players that know the mu, because i assume they are the ones who you are judgin it off of. And if what ur are saying is true i might change my mind. You are a very gimmicky player i know this cuz ive played and seen you play.
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Interesting, why don't you do 2,1 over xxknee? how do you handle the corner game? Do you think the green demon is the still optimal over red in the corner? Especially since the red demon has so much scaled damage?
People can poke it since most people have 6 frame d1s, the corner game i usually just do mix, like crossups, j3 , neutral jumps, i like green demon because you basically get like 50 percent off the overhead and you can confirm anything into big damage.
 
We are going in circles like i said you judge this based on playing the mu with certain players, well let me play these players that know the mu, because i assume they are the ones who you are judgin it off of. And if what ur are saying is true i might change my mind. You are a very gimmicky player i know this cuz ive played and seen you play.
You say i judge this based on playing certain players and yet youre the only one whos mentioned other players. maybe just maybe i actually lab MUs and see what my opponents can do and what they cant instead of just relying on what my opponents can and cant do.
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
You say i judge this based on playing certain players and yet youre the only one whos mentioned other players. maybe just maybe i actually lab MUs and see what my opponents can do and what they cant instead of just relying on what my opponents can and cant do.
So what your saying is i have played these mus at a high level, with people who know the mu and actually know how to play it in game and uve played it vs a training dummy yah pce you are theory fighting lolol. The reason why ur arguments seem sketch.
 
Nah bro basic stupidity is def more knowledable and knows how to play these mus better, and hes got the results to back it up.
im sorry, can you remind me when youve gotten the results to back it up while just using darkseid? All i see is hometown heroes, something that happened when almost no one knew how to play against the character. i dont see why you get to just totally discredit me just because your darkseid is more known. im not saying what youve done is no accomplishment but youre not some god that can dictate whos opinions matter.