I agree on her zoning being good, but really only against people with no projectiles or weaker zoning in general. She doesn’t do all that well against people with fast projectiles who can out trade her consistently or prevent her from throwing out hyenas/cupcakes.
THAT PART! Which i been saying. She has all types of tools to zone, but speed kills, and her projectiles are not fast.
I can see that, however, her mix up and combo potential more then compensates for what she lacks in effective zoning against heavy zoners. She has a decently strong neutral game, she's an excellent whiff punisher, she has great meterless damage, strong air to airs, excellent jumps and a strong corner game once she gets started. I mean, every character has weaknesses but hers are few an far between that of a low or mid lower tier character.
Harley has no mixup 50/50 game.
You're kidding right?
I agree with the majority of your points for sure, I'm really just for whiffing issues being addressed and a small damage buff to her gunshots. Tantrum being safe would be a bit much, I agree, but all of the options from it are pretty equally weak; her options off it are 2 unsafe mids and an unsafe low as well as 2 high recovery rolls and all of her delayed options get beaten out by poking in general.
I mean, technically she does but that F2 is blah
She doesn't. Everything she can mixup with is fuzzy guardable and pokable, Not a 50/50 at all 100% of the time one of these options will counter her mixups so they are not 50/50. Incorporate them into your game and you'll never get mixed up by harley. But... people don't care enough to look into ways at countering her, they'd rather scream OP top 10, needs nerfs...
It's not really a 50/50 though, a 50/50 would be more like Cassie's f3 and df1 or Sonya's b1 and b3 in MKX, or Flash's d12 and F2, they're just straight guesses as opposed to have a fuzzy guard option. I won't say her f2 is bad at all though, if people were getting hit by Mileena's 33f F3 in MKX, you know people get smacked by Harley's 26f f2. No one blocks it forever.
Tantrum stance to cartwheel leads to a full combo on hit though. That's not weak but I see what you're saying. It's a bit of a mind game with tantrum though, you don't delay and they try to interrupt they are getting hit. If she were to be safe after a blocked tantrum stance, they would have to take out full combo potential as compensation. That would be fair imo.
Ok so im familiar with NONE of those but i get what you're saying lol
Basically a 50/50 is where you have to guess whether to block overhead or low. Vs harley you don't have to guess, she can be fuzzy guarded or delay poked so she hasn't got a 50/50.
I mean, I'd rather have tantrum as it now rather than losing the full combo on hit, I'd never thought of safe tantrum as a buff tbh. B22 tantrum hitconfirms itself for you anyways.
Essentially, if Harley does something like say j2 b22, it should jail if done at the correct height, so it can't be poked. If she tries to do j2 f2, it won't jail and she can be poked out of it.
Again you don't have to guess, all fuzzy guard-able. Moreover it's just better to delay wakeup, or even just do a wakeup attack casue most go through hyenas anyway in the corner.
You can roll out of her hyena set-ups and wake-up or just fuzzy guard it. Her overhead is very slow that you don't have to fuzzy it, you can just react.
OOOOO! See i barely use b22....yeah i know....I'm learning lol.....But I didnt see that method as being a 50/50. Hmmmm ya learn something new everyday
Absolutely, there's a good option there, however, what if the harley knows you're going to delay the wake Up? Then she can go for an ambiguous j2 cross up, or even call another hyena to go overhead while she goes low and in that instance, the character waking up will have to hold the mix. She has options. Maybe these setups work more on characters that don't have mobile wake ups.
I agree no one is the perfect player and may get hit through human error, but none of these are reads everything you listed is fuzzy guardable. Also what ambiguous j2 crossup? All her comer crossups are very react-able as far as I know.
I'm going to retest the hyena mix Up to double check. From what I remember right when the hyena is attacking you and she does and overhead or low, the hyena covers her body so you can't actually see what she's doing but I'll double check and confirm. Also, when a character is delaying their wake up, a step back or good position I should say, has harley in a position where it's hard to read where her j2 is going to hit. And from there, you can cancel into air guns immediately or jail them with the j2 into her low, go for a throw if they blocked the j2 correctly, or go for the overhead if you conditioned them enough.
You don't need to see anything, it's simple, you block low then you block high, fuzzy guard is about timing not visual
bat overhead/tantrum? I don't know what that means