Harley General Fixes/"Buff" Thread

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Are you serious?!?!? Not a better zoner than ivy?!?!?!? Lol bye or darkseid ?!?! Try using vine drill against Harley and see who’s the better zoner

Darkseid and even Ivy are bad examples if you wanna play the harley is a good zoner card.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Are you serious?!?!? Not a better zoner than ivy?!?!?!? Lol bye or darkseid ?!?! Try using vine drill against Harley and see who’s the better zoner

Yeah, Ivy is actually a good zoner but she just has huge weaknesses. What I mean is that if you put both as pure zoners against a rushdown character, Ivy is gonna do better. Harley is just a better character overall.
And Darkseid lol do I even need to explain that one?

 

[TopTierHarley]

lol at just roll backwards

 

[Andnyal_]

Yeah, Ivy is actually a good zoner but she just has huge weaknesses. What I mean is that if you put both as pure zoners against a rushdown character, Ivy is gonna do better. Harley is just a better character overall.
And Darkseid lol do I even need to explain that one?

How is she going to do better?!? all she has is vine drill and it takes 51 frames for trait and then another 10 frames pet to start shooting... clearly you haven’t seen flash vs ivy cause you would see how bad of a zoner ivy is

 

[AkioOf100]

but robin gets in easier on ivy than he does w/ harley.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

How is she going to do better?!? all she has is vine drill and it takes 51 frames for trait and then another 10 frames pet to start shooting... clearly you haven’t seen flash vs ivy cause you would see how bad of a zoner ivy is

Lol Flash probably beats Harley anyway so?

Also lol I won't even bother explaining why Ivy is a good zoner, I mean you just brought up the start-up on her trait as something bad when she has a lot of ways to set it up.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

How is she going to do better?!? all she has is vine drill and it takes 51 frames for trait and then another 10 frames pet to start shooting... clearly you haven’t seen flash vs ivy cause you would see how bad of a zoner ivy is

oh pls lol... You lost me at darkseid is a worse zoner than harley.

 

[Andnyal_]

Lol Flash probably beats Harley anyway so?

Also lol I won't even bother explaining why Ivy is a good zoner, I mean you just brought up the start-up on her trait as something bad when she has a lot of ways to set it up.

Lol I’m sorry please tell me how good of a zoner my main is ?!? She has 1 and 1/2 zoning tools vs Harley’s 6 tools .my bad, you’re right vine drill is so much better than hit scan gun that go everywhere

 

[HellblazerHawkman]

Not knowing much about Harley, I will say that there's no reason why MB Play Doctor doesn't kill. Not when Scarecrow's trait can, and there is much less risk to using that, especially with his teleport

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Lol I’m sorry please tell me how good of a zoner my main is ?!? She has 1 and 1/2 zoning tools vs Harley’s 6 tools .my bad, you’re right vine drill is so much better than hit scan gun that go everywhere

Aren't you the guy who made a novel on things Ivy needs from your perspective? Yeah, awkay... You clearly know your character

 

[Andnyal_]

oh pls lol... You lost me at darkseid is a worse zoner than harley.

Aren't you the guy who made a novel on things Ivy needs from your perspective? Yeah, awkay... You clearly know your character

yeah I can clearly see you’re downplaying Harley’s zoning... and compared to ivy she’s a god zoner I would kill for that type of zoning with ivy

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

yeah I can clearly see you’re downplaying Harley’s zoning... and compared to ivy she’s a god zoner I would kill for that type of zoning with ivy

So switch to harley... let us know how it works out for u bruv.

 

[Psyren136]

Absolutely lol. I've even heard someone say she is the 2nd best zoner behind Fate.

The up play is real.

 

[TopTierHarley]

The up play is real.

#2 even though she gets out zoned by Supergirl lol

 

[Psyren136]

#2 even though she gets out zoned by Supergirl lol

Fate, deadshot, Darkseid, starfire easily can handle her in zoning.

I can't tell if people are up playing or just dont know the match up maybe. Idk.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Fate, deadshot, Darkseid, starfire easily can handle her in zoning.

I can't tell if people are up playing or just dont know the match up maybe. Idk.

Maybe not DS anymore but everyone else, RIP

 

[Psyren136]

Maybe not DS anymore but everyone else, RIP

Nah. He ain't as good anymore but I think people are sleeping on him now acting like he's dead. He can still do some work just takes a bit more effort now.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Nah. He ain't as good anymore but I think people are sleeping on him now acting like he's dead. He can still do some work just takes a bit more effort now.

Harley can actually duck his shot, shoot him, and block his trade, it's so much better for her now

 

[Second Saint]

Ok, unpopular opinion time I guess. Harley's a pretty good zoner, when she can actually zone. Reactive zoning isn't really her style, though. The problem is, she can't do that against most people with a projectile.

What she needs buffed in that department is counterzoning, but it's hard to do that without then making all her good matchups worse. We don't want to fix her bad matchups just to make life hell for the characters that already struggle against her.

I think the way to buff Harley to do better in matchups where she gets outzoned is to make air guns much more threatening. If she got more off that, or god forbid they took the auto block off MB (massive overbuff right there, but I'd love it), that would even out things quite a bit, and if they made it more punishable, then it hopefully would even out for the matchups she currently does well in. It'd make her a bit better up close too.

Also, one of the buffs I think is most important is to make upclose gunshot pressure more consistent across the cast. Having your primary pressure tools flat out not work on multiple characters and be unreliable against many more is just infuriating.

 

[Psyren136]

Harley can actually duck his shot, shoot him, and block his trade, it's so much better for her now

You think she completely out zones him free now though? It's defin easier for alot of chars to fight him now, but I don't think it gave everyone a 6-4 or better over him now. Not to say he doesn't have bad MUs or lose to diff stuff now but you look at threads and people act like every match up is 10-0 with deadshot losing after patch lol

 

[Second Saint]

Another fix to add is that 2d3 should still be a proper hard knockdown when done from a juggle state. It's so weird that it becomes a soft knockdown when not done on a grounded opponent.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Harley is good. These changes seem good and fair to me, they really aren’t anything crazy. Harley has good zoning but it’s pretty cringe hearing about her being compared to Fate and the other zoners.

 

[Steven_a]

delet dis

 

[Eldagrin]

I 100% agree with all the bug fixes, hopefully they don’t “fix” the range of b22 and end up nerfing the range on grounded characters without it actually changing vs floating like in IGAU. The gunshot damage buff would be nice too; not so sure about making b1 10f though, that could be a bit much. TS 2 being safe would actually make it useful lol.

 

[B. Shazzy]

As many of you know Harley is seen as this Top 10 character and insane zoning monster (even though she gets outzoned by almost everyone with a projectile) both of these things are false and she actually needs help.

Below are some suggestions that would be nice for our Psychotic Princess.

1) Fix her b22 whiffing on floating characters (even if u don't fix anything else, fix this shit at least)

2) Fix her pop pop so it doesn't whiff on some shitty crouching hitboxes.

3) Make tantrum 2 safe

4) Make 112 +1 on block and longer knockdown for oki

5) Allow her MB play doctor to kill (it's already neutral on hit make it at least kill if I'm spending the bar)

6) Give her a fast 10 frame b1 with decreased range to compensate (need an option to punish shit while stand blocking without having to guess)

7) Slightly buff gunshot dmg (trades are useless, gunshot doesn't knock down and does so little damage that it's laughable)

8) b22/tantrum 3 coming out when a character armors through. (it's hitting them, the full string should come out)

Discuss/Debate

let me translate scrub language

“1. let me reap all the benfits of a female hitbox on an nrs game game but when other characters hitboxes are inconvienient lets fix it

2. agan see 1

3. let me do braindead cancels off my strings or wakeup yolo into a full combo or have 5 hours to confirm into tantrusm stance 2 on block cuz im a scrub

4. pointless scrub buff they think will change anything

5. make it kill even tho if the opponent is already in a situation where their lifebar is so so low in the first place you could just chip them out with like 2 d1s or something idk ok scrubs are weird man

6. cant learn to time punish properly make it easier for my scrub fingers(this why fighting games are trash now btw)

7. my near zero recovery instant projectile doesnt dominate neutral enough reward my instant gratification chimpanzee harley brain by making me work less hard

8. let me spam out my halfscreen low with no extended hurtbox with zero risk so i can autopilot into my new safe tantatrums 2 or into full combo rinse and repeat 24/7 please i suck ao bad”

there you go guise a direct translation from google