Black Manta Matchup Thread

[CrazyFingers]

I played Swamp Thing vs Manta and it seems like a very snow bally matchup. I'll have to play the matchup more but it was a pretty close set with Destroyer. If Manta gets Swamp Thing cornered it becomes very hard for him to get out. Midscreen it's about even. His F2 being faster than Swamp Thing's gives him a slight edge so right now i feel like it's pretty close to even 6-4 in Manta's favor. A bit difficult but not unwinnable by any means.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I see where you're going with this, Red. Really good idea.
I will go to my ship immediately and use my brains to see what I can find.

The first two characters that immediately come to mind are Robin and Scarecrow, because I wanna know what options I'm gonna have to bait and counterbait since it feels like Robin's dash & slash shits shamelessly on a lot of oki strategies (i've only been playing him like a week though, pls don't crucify me if im wrong), and Crow has a lot of options i feel like i need to be prepared for + the everpresent threat of his trait.

I wish I wasn't broke. I can't wait to break this character.
Officially up there with my three amigos as far as being interesting as fuck goes.
And his 33 string that looks like Deathstroke but hits like Doomsday gets me right in the feels.

 

[Red Reaper]

Thanks for the tag! I can help if you point what do you want

I see where you're going with this, Red. Really good idea.
I will go to my ship immediately and use my brains to see what I can find.

The first two characters that immediately come to mind are Robin and Scarecrow, because I wanna know what options I'm gonna have to bait and counterbait since it feels like Robin's dash & slash shits shamelessly on a lot of oki strategies (i've only been playing him like a week though, pls don't crucify me if im wrong), and Crow has a lot of options i feel like i need to be prepared for + the everpresent threat of his trait.

I wish I wasn't broke. I can't wait to break this character.
Officially up there with my three amigos as far as being interesting as fuck goes.
And his 33 string that looks like Deathstroke but hits like Doomsday gets me right in the feels.

The oki thread is up now, and it's been there for a quite a bit. I've just been trying to make sure I had a good amount of information and diversity before letting more people know, but anyone kan see it. If you want to help out, maybe you two kould explore oki on any unexplored match up and let me know the options they have for that oki.

If you kan't think of anything, you kan test any of the oki methods already used in the thread, just on other characters.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I'm gonna file everything I find/observe over time in this particular post, starting tonight.
Hopefully this little tablet post of info will come in handy as we progress.

Keep in mind, while this is Day One, Post One for me as Mamba (I am envoking my right as an auditioning Manta main to call him Mamba), my view is going to be overall and broad, and encompass everything that could possibly affect him or be helpful to remember.

1. My first immediate observation: he legit has Doomsday's forward dash speed.
It looks and feels exactly the same and covers the same amount of screen at the same speed I'm used to.
Which means dashing in and taking liberties can be a thing depending on the matchup.

Seriously, when I started hopping around and getting familiar, this made me so happy.

2. I don't want to hear ANYONE EVER bitching for buffs to his Rockets or his Tele-Uppercut, because combining them with his Trait would make him way more broken than it needs to be.

3. JI3 into Tele-Uppercut is dirty as Dirty Dan.

4. TRAIT FLOAT CANCELS. Just like Sindel and Ermac before him, you can cancel - not insta-cancel like Sindel's, but still good enough - right back to the ground out of the Float using L2. You can't really troll with it, unless it's I guess a Canary or Cheetah waiting to get Trait back, or a Catwoman with no meter.
How fast they can be done, I have no idea, but it makes people do really dumb things.

5. Regular Tele-Uppercut gets beat out by literally EVERYTHING.
I've had some occasions (so far only with Batman and Black Adam) where I'll try and TU through someone's wakeup or just to check them or burn them out with a meter burned TU and they'd mash 112 or F12 and not only knock me right out of it but RESTOOD ME FOR A COMBO. be very, very wary of checking your foes with Tele-Uppercut on knockdown.

More to come.

 

[Red Reaper]

2. I don't want to hear ANYONE EVER bitching for buffs to his Rockets or his Tele-Uppercut, because combining them with his Trait would make him way more broken than it needs to be.

I'm pretty sure his teleport needs a better hitbox or a smaller hurtbox, I've been hit out of it by simple stuff like Catwoman normals and Captain Cold's D1 as I was koming up. Also:

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I'm pretty sure his teleport needs a better hitbox or a smaller hurtbox, I've been hit out of it by simple stuff like Catwoman normals and Captain Cold's D1 as I was koming up. Also:

I suck at saying what I'm actually trying to say. Meant to specify the Tele-Uppercut not being doable from the air. At first I was iffy because in the whole history of anyone having a TU, I can't remember one that couldn't be done airborne; but with all the mixing and matching you can do out of his Trait; that would be absolutely bonkers.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Has anyone made progress on the Deadshot MU yet?
That's the one guy who on paper feels like he could be the worst for Mamba.

 

[Red Reaper]

Has anyone made progress on the Deadshot MU yet?
That's the one guy who on paper feels like he could be the worst for Mamba.

On paper, Manta looks like he would be one of the best in the match up..

Manta always has the threat of teleport. He kan jump over shots from a longer range and, if he mistimes it, kan kancel into trait to avoid the next shot. He kan also check deadshot with a gunshot punishable air harpoon during his jump, or he just jump to get in, and then if he sees a low rifle, punish with air harpoon. Once he gets into Deadshots B1 range or just outside of it, Deadshots seem to get worried, because they either have to kommit to straight shots or potentially take a F2. If they kontinue with the straight shot, then they risk eating a jump in, air harpoon, or teleport. Manta also has a really good walkspeed so you don't even have to jump or take risks.

I think Manta does very well in the match up.. I'm not sure if he wins it for sure, but I doubt it's not at least even. What made you think it was bad?

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

On paper, Manta looks like he would be one of the best in the match up..

Manta always has the threat of teleport. He kan jump over shots from a longer range and, if he mistimes it, kan kancel into trait to avoid the next shot. He kan also check deadshot with a gunshot punishable air harpoon during his jump, or he just jump to get in, and then if he sees a low rifle, punish with air harpoon. Once he gets into Deadshots B1 range or just outside of it, Deadshots seem to get worried, because they either have to kommit to straight shots or potentially take a F2. If they kontinue with the straight shot, then they risk eating a jump in, air harpoon, or teleport. Manta also has a really good walkspeed so you don't even have to jump or take risks.

I think Manta does very well in the match up.. I'm not sure if he wins it for sure, but I doubt it's not at least even. What made you think it was bad?

The bullets. Any adept zoner that can kind of invalidate his Trait AND hit him for hard damage if he mistimes an Uppercut, they can play the same chess kind of game of checking each other with threats and making them overthink.

There is so much to this character that idk where to start.

 

[IrishMantis]

All I say is Manta vs SZ feels worst than Alist Vs GM lol

Feels really bad for Manta

 

[Tweedy]

I think Manta is godlike vs zoners. Just gotta use his forward walk and dashes. They're some of the best in the game.

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Manta vs aqua. Ur thoughts?

 

[Red Reaper]

Manta vs aqua. Ur thoughts?

Seems pretty good or at least decent. I'm koming from using Arrow though, so it feels like a godsend.... I have also been having pretty decent success stuffing Aquaman's wake ups when playing ranked. It's easier than with Arrow because Manta's knockdown advantage is konsistent, Arrow's depends on the height you hit them.

I'll have to play the match up more against better Aquaman players though.

 

[Red Reaper]

I think Manta is godlike vs zoners. Just gotta use his forward walk and dashes. They're some of the best in the game.

Definitely agree. I usually just walk and jump (from harpoon range), unless I feel like they're getting kareless or forgetting about his teleport.

 

[Red Reaper]

All I say is Manta vs SZ feels worst than Alist Vs GM lol

Feels really bad for Manta

I need to figure out that match up more. I assumed I was just playing wrong, but even on paper it doesn't look good. I'm sure we have more options than we think though. Like maybe stuffing him as he throws the klone, with either a teleport, charge, or harpoon. It might end up just being that bad online.

 

[DC King]

Not sure if anyone said this yet but Darkseid is the only character that can't duck mb teleport. Also the timing on trying to punish it with Darkseid seems strict af unless u mash d1 or maybe im just that bad

 

[Red Reaper]

Not sure if anyone said this yet but Darkseid is the only character that can't duck mb teleport. Also the timing on trying to punish it with Darkseid seems strict af unless u mash d1 or maybe im just that bad

@Invincible Salads made a video on that... He showed a way to punish it by forward dashing too. Not sure how much damage you get though.

 

[Invincible Salads]

@Invincible Salads made a video on that... He showed a way to punish it by forward dashing too. Not sure how much damage you get though.

yeah your gonna get a shitty punish at best, not sure if u can connect b1u3 in time, your best bet is just to mbb3 it tbh.

 

[Red Reaper]

yeah your gonna get a shitty punish at best, not sure if u can connect b1u3 in time, your best bet is just to mbb3 it tbh.

If MB B3 doesn't punish the regular teleport then Manta basically does to him what Robin does to characters without 6 frame normals.. Guess with a MB B3 to punish the MB or get a small damage interrupt.

 

[DC King]

@Invincible Salads made a video on that... He showed a way to punish it by forward dashing too. Not sure how much damage you get though.

Yea I was testing the forward dash option as well right after i posted that comment. Although it might be small damage, maybe Darkseid can go for 12xxdf2 after the forward dash.

 

[kcd117]

I played a darkseid yesterday and I remember getting d2'ed out of mb teleport.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Progress Report: "Black Manta, Hidden Mime."
By: Doctor Angel.

There's no way to say this without risking being blown up for it, but this is what I've got so far.
And anyone who speaks frame data who could provide the necessary numbers, I would be most appreciative.

Black Manta is MK9 Cage in Sektor's body.

He lives and dies by his stagger strings and confusing pressure. Like MK9 Cage.
The meter he builds in the process usually goes to MB Eye Beam (ala EX Force Ball) or MB Homing Missle.
His options past halfscreen kind of suck, because while smart opponents won't blatantly disrespect the Tele-uppercut, it is a scary fucking thing to just throw out there in some matchups since the reward isn't all that great even if you do burn a bar. You knock them out of their zoning, but the position you put yourself in might be disadvantageous compared to where you were just standing. Just like the old EX Shadow Kick or Sektor's TU's. 60% risk, 40% reward.
The gaps in 123(2) and 21(3) are liveable because you can bait accordingly.
And of all the weird mobility characters NRS has attempted thus far, from Sindel to Hawkgirl to Spectral, Manta and his Trait are definitely the most accessible/least difficult to get used to...especially, I imagine, if you're a Marvel player as well and you're used to keeping track of a load of stuff while airborne.

But yeah. He reminds me a LOT of a Cage/Sektor hybrid. No frametraps, but the pressure is real.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

I played a darkseid yesterday and I remember getting d2'ed out of mb teleport.

its a powerful move but it cant just be thrown out there, you gotta time it (esp in mirror cause opponent can just teleport your teleport on reaction)

sub zero seemed hard at first but manta does have options, even if sz blocks a hook the clone breaks

 

[kcd117]

its a powerful move but it cant just be thrown out there, you gotta time it (esp in mirror cause opponent can just teleport your teleport on reaction)

sub zero seemed hard at first but manta does have options, even if sz blocks a hook the clone breaks

Yeah I know, I'm just pointing that darkseid can actually punish the mb version too.

 

[Red Reaper]

Progress Report: "Black Manta, Hidden Mime."
By: Doctor Angel.

There's no way to say this without risking being blown up for it, but this is what I've got so far.
And anyone who speaks frame data who could provide the necessary numbers, I would be most appreciative.

Black Manta is MK9 Cage in Sektor's body.

He lives and dies by his stagger strings and confusing pressure. Like MK9 Cage.
The meter he builds in the process usually goes to MB Eye Beam (ala EX Force Ball) or MB Homing Missle.
His options past halfscreen kind of suck, because while smart opponents won't blatantly disrespect the Tele-uppercut, it is a scary fucking thing to just throw out there in some matchups since the reward isn't all that great even if you do burn a bar. You knock them out of their zoning, but the position you put yourself in might be disadvantageous compared to where you were just standing. Just like the old EX Shadow Kick or Sektor's TU's. 60% risk, 40% reward.
The gaps in 123(2) and 21(3) are liveable because you can bait accordingly.
And of all the weird mobility characters NRS has attempted thus far, from Sindel to Hawkgirl to Spectral, Manta and his Trait are definitely the most accessible/least difficult to get used to...especially, I imagine, if you're a Marvel player as well and you're used to keeping track of a load of stuff while airborne.

But yeah. He reminds me a LOT of a Cage/Sektor hybrid. No frametraps, but the pressure is real.

MK9 Johnny was neutral or plus on his F3. And his EX Force Ball was plus..

I don't think they play the same. Manta kan use some staggers to get pressure, but that's not his main game plan and it won't get you that much pressure. It is not something you kan use a lot. Manta requires much more konditioning for his pressure tools.

I think Manta excels in the footsie department with wiff punishing and a solid anti-air.