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Black Manta Matchup Thread

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
its a powerful move but it cant just be thrown out there, you gotta time it (esp in mirror cause opponent can just teleport your teleport on reaction)

sub zero seemed hard at first but manta does have options, even if sz blocks a hook the clone breaks
The harpoon has too much recovery to use it reliably that way though. Pretty sure we'd get punished for that, and if you mean from a distance, well that's not even where klone is a problem.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

(NOTHING)
Premium Supporter
MK9 Johnny was neutral or plus on his F3. And his EX Force Ball was plus..

I don't think they play the same. Manta kan use some staggers to get pressure, but that's not his main game plan and it won't get you that much pressure. It is not something you kan use a lot. Manta requires much more konditioning for his pressure tools.

I think Manta excels in the footsie department with wiff punishing and a solid anti-air.
Yes. That. Johnny did that too. B3 could cost you half your lifebar, and anything you miss could eat a F3.
It, the similarity, isn't as much his main game as it is the parallels between them.
Where he is eventually going to shine is when his Trait gets fleshed out.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
im just gonna come out and say from experience which matches i believe manta has the advantage in so far.

vs Brainiac: 6-4
brainiac's air game doesnt exist in this mu due to missiles, which means he's gotta approach from the ground, manta controls the space better and faster than he does in this MU, and if manta uses beams and missiles on oki brainiac can't really wake up either.

vs Flash: 6-4
completely out ranges the flash and controls the space he wants to get into very well, flash is going to spend the majority of the match trying to get in, and even when he does, the range on manta's d1 can cause problems even then.

vs Darkseid: 6-4 (potentially worse?)
Darkseid doesnt really excel anywhere on the screen in this MU. He can't really zone due to manta's teleport and the recovery time on his beams, darkseid can't really do much in the neutral, and if darkseid whiffs an omega beam from closer than full screen, theres a good chance manta's going to punish with with his charge or get in or punish with f21. Also, manta very easily anti-airs darkseid, having plenty of options to do so including a good d2. also, darkseid is the only character in the game that mb teleport will not whiff on if blocked.
 
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Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Dealing with Capt Cold's ice puddle. Punish with MB-BF2... not regular BF2.
Nice to know.. I didn't even think of this since I don't really fight him, and my other main does well against him.
I doubt it, but I wonder if instant air is any different.
 

Snibbor

There are fates worse than death.
Premium Supporter
How do you guys think Manta does against Firestorm, or Wonder Woman? These are the MUs I’m struggling the most with using him. It seems difficult to approach Firestorm because he can always punish air harpoon with trap/charge, and also because his b1 is 9f so Manta’s f2 staggers are pretty useless here. I also find that even once I am in, it can still be difficult dealing with his 50/50s or vortex since he will almost inevitably get to attempt it at least once.

Wonder Woman I don’t really know what to say about. Manta seems to get outfootied hard imo, while he can punish grounded shield toss pretty reliably that’s basically his only guaranteed punish on anything, otherwise he has to take a risk. Mantas optional range (sweep/f2 range) is a fantastic spot for WW to be in as well, bc that’s around max range for whip, shield bash, and her d2 is great for AAing mantas jump ins. Any tips for these MUs?
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
How do you guys think Manta does against Firestorm, or Wonder Woman? These are the MUs I’m struggling the most with using him. It seems difficult to approach Firestorm because he can always punish air harpoon with trap/charge, and also because his b1 is 9f so Manta’s f2 staggers are pretty useless here. I also find that even once I am in, it can still be difficult dealing with his 50/50s or vortex since he will almost inevitably get to attempt it at least once.

Wonder Woman I don’t really know what to say about. Manta seems to get outfootied hard imo, while he can punish grounded shield toss pretty reliably that’s basically his only guaranteed punish on anything, otherwise he has to take a risk. Mantas optional range (sweep/f2 range) is a fantastic spot for WW to be in as well, bc that’s around max range for whip, shield bash, and her d2 is great for AAing mantas jump ins. Any tips for these MUs?
For Firestorm, you're just gonna have to play the patience game and work your way in. All Firestorm players have a pattern of when they like to start throwing out molten trap, you need to attempt to analyze that and get the read. It only takes one MB air harpoon to make them second guess doing it again because now they have to deal with Manta's god tier oki or risk throwing out their "please punish me" wakeup attack. You need to stay in your optimal footsie range, Firestorm can't really do anything in that spacing.

As for Wonder Woman, you basically have to catch her coming TO YOU. She can't do shit to you at full screen, and she has no choice but to do shield bashes in neutral to get to you. Up close, flight cancel pressure is your friend. She has to make a lot of hard reads because you can threaten double j3's or j3~db3 which catches them trying to d2 your second j3. That's the thing, she doesn't control neutral per se, she denies it. Wonder Woman is terrible if she's forced to play footsies as the aggressor.
 

NeroOps

Death Before Dishonor
Its possible to snuff dr fate wake up with a mb teleport too after doing a d3, b12, or b11u3d2 its timing is a tab bit strict.
 

Kooron Nation

More Ass and Tits for MK11
What's everyone's opinion on Batman match up?
Manta's d2 is usually good but against the j2 cross up shenanigans it feels pretty inferior, getting beat out more times than it works.
Also his zoning is annoying, I actually had him walk backwards as he threw a batarang and it legit made the teleport whiff #feelsbadman.

I'll be honest I fucking suck against Batman just in general and it's probably a 5-5, but feels difficult. His 6f d2 is also annoying if they're gonna mash that shit, for stuffing float cancels and buttons after a mb laser on block, as well as trait bats
 

NeroOps

Death Before Dishonor
What's everyone's opinion on Batman match up?
Manta's d2 is usually good but against the j2 cross up shenanigans it feels pretty inferior, getting beat out more times than it works.
Also his zoning is annoying, I actually had him walk backwards as he threw a batarang and it legit made the teleport whiff #feelsbadman.

I'll be honest I fucking suck against Batman just in general and it's probably a 5-5, but feels difficult. His 6f d2 is also annoying if they're gonna mash that shit, for stuffing float cancels and buttons after a mb laser on block, as well as trait bats
A raw j2 crossup with no trait just dash forward if he does crossup with trait just block the setup until he’s open. I played a mirror match against manta user he tried to hit me with that raw float setup he got snuffed by a d2 almost every time it’s a risk when you use the float. If you plan to mb his laser you might as well dash back for safe keeping then try to stay in control of the spacing.
Edit: if he just constantly backup and throw batarangs move forward and duck until you get the right spacing then jump harpoon his ass or j3 him
 
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Snibbor

There are fates worse than death.
Premium Supporter
I
What's everyone's opinion on Batman match up?
Manta's d2 is usually good but against the j2 cross up shenanigans it feels pretty inferior, getting beat out more times than it works.
Also his zoning is annoying, I actually had him walk backwards as he threw a batarang and it legit made the teleport whiff #feelsbadman.

I'll be honest I fucking suck against Batman just in general and it's probably a 5-5, but feels difficult. His 6f d2 is also annoying if they're gonna mash that shit, for stuffing float cancels and buttons after a mb laser on block, as well as trait bats
If you notice that your opponent is mashing d2 as soon as you flight cancel, they're probably mashing because they see you do x-string into flight. For example, a lot of the time when I do B22 mid screen into float my opponent will be looking for the float or rocket cancel and will just d2 on reaction to b22 on block. Since b22 is safe, if you know they're going to block it just do b22 and then block and punish the d2.

Manta can backdash Batmans 12 pressure every time(when he doesn't have bats ofc) which forces him to take risks like straight grapple or a delayed MB up batarang if he wants to use it.

I think Mantas d2 works pretty well against bats j2, but if you're in a cross up situation or he's right in front of you it'll probably get stuffed. I don't mind his zoning either, Manta can walk him down pretty quickly and the constant threat of teleport means Batman cannot mindlessly throw batarangs or he'll eat a combo. You could also j3 or air harpoon once you get close enough, but that opens you up to up batarang conversions so I don't generally like to do that.
 
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Kooron Nation

More Ass and Tits for MK11
My thoughts on Manta's losing MUs:

Wonder Woman
Sub Zero
Supergirl
Dr Fate
Green Arrow (never played but seems bad)
Supergirl I personally agree on but I saw Sonicfox absolutely destroy Theo in the match up, maybe Theo not sure on the match up but regardless I still think he loses due to a lack of a button to interrupt her gaps well.
Also Green Arrow isn't as bad as everyone says, he wins it definitely but I think Air Harpoon goes a long way against a trigger happy low Arrow player, this can work well on Fate too due to his lack of air control
 

Kooron Nation

More Ass and Tits for MK11
Sub Zero is by far one of his worst MUs. I been playing him less and less because of it. I mained Jax in MKX and im not about to lose to the ice clone 2 games in a row, fuck that!
Agreed that shit is AIDS, he really has no option for the clone, maybe j3 or torpedo to check Sub but still