This Is A Hunt I've Longed For: Cheetah General Discussion

[Espio]

I've had such mixed feelings about this character. Mainly because on one end I'm hearing she's one of the weakest characters in the game due to her severe lack of mid range and long range options. And the lack of any projectiles just puts icing on the s*** cake I suppose. On the other hand I've heard crazy things about her mixup game.

I love rush down and right now I play Cyborg because of all his plus frames. But he's lacking so much that it's almost funny to say you can beat the best of the best with him. All his key strings have very noticeable gaps, his projectiles hit hard but leave him exposed as hell, grapple is dope but who can't see it coming, and what's the point of having a million plus frame strings if you can't easily get in the correct range to pull them off? He's definitely not for someone who loves rush down play.

Is Cheetah a good pick for me? Understanding the style I like to play, if Cheetah isn't the answer then who's a character I can get good with that actually has a chance of winning a tournament?

If you like rushdown characters, you'll like Cheetah. The problem with this character is she is misunderstood by her upplayers and downplayers so it's hard to even analyze her as a casual observer trying to find someone to fit you.

Just give her a try. Most people aren't winning majors or even getting top 8 in general so that's not the approach to go with here. Approach her with the mind of leveling up and then build up.

The game seems reasonably balanced and most characters seem to have worth and utility.

Blood lunge essentially makes up for her lack of range, she's highly mobile and in most match ups she can use her mobility reasonably well.


I think she's a solid character, but form your own opinion through experience.

 

[Bl4ckMaj1k]

Thanks bro. I've been labbing her for a little while now and I really like her. I feel like she has very few true combo strings though. like i have to do a lot of stagger strings or else face punishment. just got mopped a few times to figure out what her deal is. open to losing this early on, so no biggie. looks like she really is a f3 junkie and she also requires you to read what your opponent is gonna do. bf3 into 3 is a really good way to jump in, but it must require some crazy timing that i don't have down pact yet because every pounce so far has led to big big damage lol. maybe i'll use that crazy 27f j2 after the pounce? I think that may be safer, but the timing on that seems to be even harder because the range you land at is what determines how early or late you have to actually press 2. Any tips on this girl's pounce?

Overall she's solid man and I really wish I would've started with her to begin with. I'll give her more TLC for the next few weeks and see what happens.

 

[KingofBreaker]

I think B2 scales since it it knocks them off the ground while 3 doesn't. Mid-combo they're obviously already off the ground but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's causing the differing damage values.

Thanks for the response. That's really interesting if that's the case.

 

[iAteUrLife]

Thanks bro. I've been labbing her for a little while now and I really like her. I feel like she has very few true combo strings though. like i have to do a lot of stagger strings or else face punishment. just got mopped a few times to figure out what her deal is. open to losing this early on, so no biggie. looks like she really is a f3 junkie and she also requires you to read what your opponent is gonna do. bf3 into 3 is a really good way to jump in, but it must require some crazy timing that i don't have down pact yet because every pounce so far has led to big big damage lol. maybe i'll use that crazy 27f j2 after the pounce? I think that may be safer, but the timing on that seems to be even harder because the range you land at is what determines how early or late you have to actually press 2. Any tips on this girl's pounce?

Overall she's solid man and I really wish I would've started with her to begin with. I'll give her more TLC for the next few weeks and see what happens.

Her J2 imo is to me underrated. The active frames beat a decent amount of jump attacks, and when you land it on a standing opponent your +5 or more even if u hit only 1 hit of the j2. I usually do j2 s2 tick throw (DBF1 or db1). The timing to me doesn't seem too awkward depends on if your trying to Air-Air or apply pressure on a blocking opponent. The earlier the better for Air-Air, and slightly at the end of the peak of her pounce arc for pressure

 

[ChoseDeath]

Dear Cheetah,

You are a bad lady and you made me cry. I hate your backdash. Why don't you want to play with me?! Also your jump 1 has a hitbox of 35 feet and I know you're magic but that's cheating.

Sincerely,
Grodd.

 

[iAteUrLife]

Thought id post some footage of these sexy f3 and j3 setups @Zionix shared. Getting really good mileage from them. These are from ranked sets

 

[Bl4ckMaj1k]

Thought id post some footage of these sexy f3 and j3 setups @Zionix shared. Getting really good mileage from them. These are from ranked sets

OMG!!!!!! So OP dude I'm gonna figure this chick out!

 

[Bl4ckMaj1k]

Had no idea about the power of s2 into tick throw. Neither did I know about the f3 as meaty wake up. If you step back once it's in front, if you do it as meaty without stepping back it somehow crosses up. HOW IS THIS CHARACTER NOT IN TOURNEYS????

 

[Zionix]

Had no idea about the power of s2 into tick throw. Neither did I know about the f3 as meaty wake up. If you step back once it's in front, if you do it as meaty without stepping back it somehow crosses up. HOW IS THIS CHARACTER NOT IN TOURNEYS????

Stage size, invincible safe wake-ups, a plethora of other wake-up options, no projectile or forward advancing special to close space quickly and hit the opponent, brain-dead specials on other cast members, command grab is a 50/50 read on top of jump/backdash which is full combo punish, meter intensive for damage (without trait), corner interactables making her corner game almost useless, no plus on block divekick in an nrs game, no approach option is safe , add 14 frames to every normal because you need to dash up first, meter burn roll is trash, d3 low profiles so much that you go under a lot of normals and then get punished during recovery frames, floating characters.

I'm sure there is more !

 

[Bl4ckMaj1k]

Stage size, invincible safe wake-ups, a plethora of other wake-up options, no projectile or forward advancing special to close space quickly and hit the opponent, brain-dead specials on other cast members, command grab is a 50/50 read on top of jump/backdash which is full combo punish, meter intensive for damage (without trait), corner interactables making her corner game almost useless, no plus on block divekick in an nrs game, no approach option is safe , add 14 frames to every normal because you need to dash up first, meter burn roll is trash, d3 low profiles so much that you go under a lot of normals and then get punished during recovery frames, floating characters.

I'm sure there is more !

Touche!! A couple questions on some of those points:

1. Wouldn't bf3 be considered a "forward advancing special"?

2. Would f3 be considered a "safe approach option"?

 

[Zionix]

Touche!! A couple questions on some of those points:

1. Wouldn't bf3 be considered a "forward advancing special"?

2. Would f3 be considered a "safe approach option"?

I mean something fast like her spotted torpedo ability move.

F3 in the game of hold backwards to play is very whiff punishable and just to get into range you will need to forward dash first and then throw on armor and hope its not armor broken. (still best f3 in the game)

edit: I should be more clear as, from my comments I make Cheetah seem weak; she is very strong and once she is in can deal massive amounts of damage and set-play a health bar with ease. Its the nature of getting in on an opponent that makes her difficult to play and may give rise to why we don't see her played often in tournament. When the right player comes along and masters her approach, followed by devastating reads and set-play she can take a major.

 

[iAteUrLife]

Think I may have found something after hitting a J3 command grab combo.

If you land a J3 x dbf1 MB / db1 MB x b3 x j3 x air db2 - when you land on the ground you are at perfect distance for a j3 ambiguous cross up and right into command grab again.
Just like the MB dive set up that @Zionix found below

I'll try to look further into it to see if it will actually cross up or reverse inputs like the one he shows. I just know for certain that I've done it online in matches and it seems to hit people trying to wake up every time (may reverse inputs on WU).

What do you guys think

 

[Bl4ckMaj1k]

I mean something fast like her spotted torpedo ability move.

F3 in the game of hold backwards to play is very whiff punishable and just to get into range you will need to forward dash first and then throw on armor and hope its not armor broken. (still best f3 in the game)

edit: I should be more clear as, from my comments I make Cheetah seem weak; she is very strong and once she is in can deal massive amounts of damage and set-play a health bar with ease. Its the nature of getting in on an opponent that makes her difficult to play and may give rise to why we don't see her played often in tournament. When the right player comes along and masters her approach, followed by devastating reads and set-play she can take a major.

I see what you mean. Hopefully I can be that player!! Beast mode!

 

[Bl4ckMaj1k]

Think I may have found something after hitting a J3 command grab combo.

If you land a J3 x dbf1 MB / db1 MB x b3 x j3 x air db2 - when you land on the ground you are at perfect distance for a j3 ambiguous cross up and right into command grab again.
Just like the MB dive set up that @Zionix found below

I'll try to look further into it to see if it will actually cross up or reverse inputs like the one he shows. I just know for certain that I've done it online in matches and it seems to hit people trying to wake up every time (may reverse inputs on WU).

What do you guys think

trying to do this now, harder than you make it look lol good find!!

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

Just wanted to share this joy with you, my fellow Cheetah Girls

 

[iAteUrLife]

trying to do this now, harder than you make it look lol good find!!

Heres the footage. In this match i was just freestyling by doing the j3 originally just to try. But it never showed as a crossup, but he kept doing DF2 instead of DB2 (the fully Invincible wake up wall)

Edit: ok so it doesn't reverse inputs but alot of wakeups are avoided completely (like Zionixs mb version of the divekick setup). HOWEVER the best thing is that WU backdash is completely punished by the j3 and if you commit to j3 command grab its a full combo, unfortunately a j3 112 wont connect fully. Divekick is a hkd so no techroll. Im pretty sure the delayed wu options @Zionix mentions in his video are still all viable.

The guy in my video wasnt a bad CC player so im not sure why death cicle kept trying to come out on his wu in the video lol.

Edit2: against CC you can actually beat his WU with this setup! If you do a slight step forward after the dive you can J3 and knock his head before the active frames of the wall hit the top!
J3 x 112 x dbf1 mb b3 x j3 x air db2= 49-50%

Also beats d2 wakeups (not sure about 6f d2s though)

 

[Bl4ckMaj1k]

What if he would've blocked that f3 on WU? What are our options in that scenario against someone like Adam with a fast ass d1? So far, I've just been jumping over on block, but that has proven to be predictable, leaving me on the other side with no real advantages.

Also learned to about her tick throw game and it only works if the opponent respects the ish outta you. So far, I haven't found any ground tick throws that are inconspicuous. I simply stopped even going for tick db1 because it whiffs ALLLLLLL the time.

 

[iAteUrLife]

 

[iAteUrLife]

What if he would've blocked that f3 on WU? What are our options in that scenario against someone like Adam with a fast ass d1? So far, I've just been jumping over on block, but that has proven to be predictable, leaving me on the other side with no real advantages.

Also learned to about her tick throw game and it only works if the opponent respects the ish outta you. So far, I haven't found any ground tick throws that are inconspicuous. I simply stopped even going for tick db1 because it whiffs ALLLLLLL the time.

After a blocked f3 its usually an immediate d3/d1 check depending on distance.

Most ppl are already adapted to d1 tic, its a 50/50 and most will stand after the d1 on block so the db1 will whiff, mix it up by doing d1 dbf1 tick to catch them standing. Her best tic to me (since it is able to be hit/block confirmed) is 12 cuz you can see after the 2nd hit how they are blocking and do the appropriate tic grab. 12 also looks like 11/112 (which ends in a oh) so 12xdbf1 is good to try. Only down side is it starts with a high. Other than that if you condition your opponent to you doing dash up d3. Then start doing dash up s2 db1 ull start landing the grabs. Its still all a 50/50 though lol.

I personally almost use all my meter on mbf3 to stuff wakeups so when they see i have meter and they are knocked down ill mix up not using it and/or not doing a f3 then meaty with strings or tics or jumpins lol. Ive had ppl say idgaf about meter and i dont unless im on my 2nd health bar, any other time im going to use the meter to maximize my combos into a setup

 

[JesterSMX]

After a blocked f3 its usually an immediate d3/d1 check depending on distance.

Most ppl are already adapted to d1 tic, its a 50/50 and most will stand after the d1 on block so the db1 will whiff, mix it up by doing d1 dbf1 tick to catch them standing. Her best tic to me (since it is able to be hit/block confirmed) is 12 cuz you can see after the 2nd hit how they are blocking and do the appropriate tic grab. 12 also looks like 11/112 (which ends in a oh) so 12xdbf1 is good to try. Only down side is it starts with a high. Other than that if you condition your opponent to you doing dash up d3. Then start doing dash up s2 db1 ull start landing the grabs. Its still all a 50/50 though lol.

I personally almost use all my meter on mbf3 to stuff wakeups so when they see i have meter and they are knocked down ill mix up not using it and/or not doing a f3 then meaty with strings or tics or jumpins lol. Ive had ppl say idgaf about meter and i dont unless im on my 2nd health bar, any other time im going to use the meter to maximize my combos into a setup

I used to mainly use meter for mbf3 oki but delayed wakeup beats it and you waste meter. Cheetah can beat almost every wakeup without meter (sg, red hood and bane I don't have an answer for... yet) I still use mbf3 like its cool but not as much for oki as I used to. If you can beat wakeup meterlessly... you're in good shape.

 

[iAteUrLife]

I used to mainly use meter for mbf3 oki but delayed wakeup beats it and you waste meter. Cheetah can beat almost every wakeup without meter (sg, red hood and bane I don't have an answer for... yet) I still use mbf3 like its cool but not as much for oki as I used to. If you can beat wakeup meterlessly... you're in good shape.

Its kind of easy to condition someone to delay wu with cheetah nowadays, With all these setups . I get alot of ppl just trying to get out or away

 

[JesterSMX]

Its kind of easy to condition someone to delay wu with cheetah nowadays, With all these setups . I get alot of ppl just trying to get out or away

I think everyone needs to know the matchup before cheetah can do work. Can't tic throws against tracking full screen invisible projectiles.... again. How does 16bit have a job?

 

[iAteUrLife]

I think everyone needs to know the matchup before cheetah can do work. Can't tic throws against tracking full screen invisible projectiles.... again. How does 16bit have a job?

Who has that?

 

[JesterSMX]

Who has that?

Full screen tracking projectiles... hmmm...
We got a supes bladam main that think he's got skills

 

[JesterSMX]

I will not stand by and hear bs cuz they got whooped by cheetah. It's pathetic. No win button.