Sub-Zero Pre-Release General Discussion

[SDK]

does 11 command grab work on block?

If theyre crouching it will whiff

 

[babalook]

If theyre crouching it will whiff

but doesn't that mean he gets a 50/50 on block between 11CG/112

 

[HeroesNZ]

but doesn't that mean he gets a 50/50 on block between 11CG/112

11 doesn't tick. He gets a 50/50 between 113 and 112 anyway

 

[Bender]

First impressions - a little underwhelmed by his options, which is probably a good thing since he has a lot of tools. Command grab is high. His counter zoning is not as effective as I was hoping. No real mixup except 111 or 11xslide /113.

His corner game is strong and his new mb specials (air hammer and ice burst) seem pretty effective. He has some decent setups but can no longer throw into clone. His d1 d2 and d3 are all solid.

I was really worried that this character would be broken, but am happy to say NRS did a good job balancing! His clone and command grab are both decent tools, but we won't see the same abuse as MKX for either. Curious to see how he develops

 

[freerf245]

-You can combo off of clone toss in the corner which is +3 on block.
-If you have clone in a very specific spot you can do ia hammer and combo off it in the corner for an overhead mixup
-Clone is an EXCELLENT whiff punish
-Second hit of 33 whiffs on crouch blockers a lot

 

[SPECTRELIGHT]

First impressions - a little underwhelmed by his options, which is probably a good thing since he has a lot of tools. Command grab is high. His counter zoning is not as effective as I was hoping. No real mixup except 111 or 11xslide /113.

His corner game is strong and his new mb specials (air hammer and ice burst) seem pretty effective. He has some decent setups but can no longer throw into clone. His d1 d2 and d3 are all solid.

I was really worried that this character would be broken, but am happy to say NRS did a good job balancing! His clone and command grab are both decent tools, but we won't see the same abuse as MKX for either. Curious to see how he develops

Hopefully they'll fix the clone hitbox issue quickly. Good to hear he's not like day one Scorpion in IGAU.

 

[Parasurama]

Can u mb clone toss to have armor?

 

[STRYKIE]

f4+aura was only plus 2 with gap.

+3*

How would it even have a gap? This makes no sense.

 

[Shady1692]

-You can combo off of clone toss in the corner which is +3 on block.
-If you have clone in a very specific spot you can do ia hammer and combo off it in the corner for an overhead mixup
-Clone is an EXCELLENT whiff punish
-Second hit of 33 whiffs on crouch blockers a lot

@freerf245 show me later tonight what you mean by the ia hammer with the clone and how its a mixup

 

[Lokheit]

D4 turned into a 9 frames sweep that reaches from "starting position" is awesome lol.

J2 isn't the crossup tool that I expected (apparently you can only get it to hit as a crossup while it's still a Mid, if you delay it more it won't hit backwards, J3 can crossup as OH though but it knocks down) and I'm bit bummed about F4 loosing its old jailing properties but I'm going to juice this character. I'm going to have a fun day with Subbie haha.

EDIT: UGHHHHHHHHH his sword string got the hard cap penalty (the last hit reduces damage to 66%, the worst penalty usually attached to uppercuts, in fact the last hist and a D2 deal the same damage and apply the same scaling) in addition to not being able to connect into a combo midscreen, that will limit his damage a lot. I loved that string in MKX u.u at least the second hit is still super plus on restands.

EDIT2: At least that launcher is -2 on block now which is a good thing but after a freeze in the corner F3 into juggles will be much better.

EDIT3: We should be finishing combos in one of the kd adtvantage strings, the command throw finisher leaves you open to free invincible wakeup punisher that ignores the klone.

 

[Shady1692]

D4 turned into a 9 frames sweep that reaches from "starting position" is awesome lol.

J2 isn't the crossup tool that I expected and I'm bit bummed about F4 loosing its old jailing properties but I'm going to juice this character. I'm going to have a fun day with Subbie haha.

EDIT: UGHHHHHHHHH his sword string got the hard cap penalty (the last hit reduces damage to 66%, the worst penalty usually attached to uppercuts, in fact the last hist and a D2 deal the same damage and apply the same scaling) in addition to not being able to connect into a combo midscreen, that will limit his damage a lot. I loved that string in MKX u.u at least the second hit is still super plus on restands. EDIT2: At least that launcher is -2 on block now which is a good thing but after a freeze in the corner F3 into juggles will be much better.

What was his f4 move again? Its been forever since i played mkx i dont remember lol

 

[Superman64]

Im not sure if anybody said this but if you but a ice clone down then you cross up the opponent with j3 it has enough pushback to push the character into the ice clone making you +3 on block.

 

[Lokheit]

What was his f4 move again? Its been forever since i played mkx i dont remember lol

What now is F2, the advancing string that ended on a change side throw. It used to jail into everything including hammer and iceball when those moves were 31 frames.

 

[Shady1692]

Im not sure if anybody said this but if you but a ice clone down then you cross up the opponent with j3 it has enough pushback to push the character into the ice clone making you +3 on block.

So after the crossover j3 do you do a string and that pushes them back or are you saying the j3 itself pushes them back?

 

[Lokheit]

Oooohhhh Slide still goes under mid projectiles <3 <3 <3 <3 (except angled projectiles like Deadshot's trick shot of course, but goes under all straight Mids and Doctor Fate's)

 

[Lokheit]

If anyone is wondering, the list of tick throws:

- D1
- B23 (High, Low)
- Jump Attacks at varying delays.

That's it. The command grab is still duckable but you can mix into OH KD, Throw MB combo starter and low string MB starter from a jump attack at the correct delay. B23 (MKX F33) can no longer be mixed with MB Burst as in this game the startup isn't enhanced with the MB (in MKX you would combine tick throws with cancels into MB Burst to check opponents).

 

[Superman64]

So after the crossover j3 do you do a string and that pushes them back or are you saying the j3 itself pushes them back?

J3 itself pushes them back

 

[Endeezdafreak]

Can u mb clone toss to have armor?

Nah

 

[Shady1692]

If anyone is wondering, the list of tick throws:

- D1
- B23 (High, Low)
- Jump Attacks at vaying delays.

That's it. The command grab is still duckable but you can mix into OH KD, Throw MB combo starter and low string MB starter from a jump attack at the correct delay. B23 (MKX F33) can no longer be mixed with MB Burst as in this game the startup isn't enhanced with the MB (in MKX you would combine tick throws with cancels into MB Burst to check opponents).

When you say OH KD are you saying cancel and spend two bars or you mean right after a jump in?

 

[Lokheit]

Hahahahahahahahaha the Slide goes under Deadshot's low straight projectiles!! (he can still hit him with the angled shots or MB for a punish though, but it shows how his animation shouldn't be considered a low attack haha). Arrow low projectile still hits him.

 

[Lokheit]

When you say OH KD are you saying cancel and spend two bars or you mean right after a jump in?

I meant the Air Hammer. Jump attack can be mixed for similar timings (some can be backdashed though) into Air Hammer, command grab, B11 or you can jail into a string or even into B23CommandGrab tick throw.

 

[Shady1692]

I meant the Air Hammer. Jump attack can be mixed for similar timings (some can be backdashed though) into Air Hammer, command grab, B11 or you can jail into a string or even into B23CommandGrab tick throw.

Hmm i like the way your thinking so whats the mix for the air hammer they are blocking high after a jump right so it most likely wont mix up? Or am i completely missing something

 

[Shady1692]

I meant the Air Hammer. Jump attack can be mixed for similar timings (some can be backdashed though) into Air Hammer, command grab, B11 or you can jail into a string or even into B23CommandGrab tick throw.

So his f2 is the only move he has that doesn't jail?

 

[Lokheit]

Hmm i like the way your thinking so whats the mix for the air hammer they are blocking high after a jump right so it most likely wont mix up? Or am i completely missing something

After having to block high, they have to keep blocking high to block Air Hammer or hold down to evade the high tick throw or the B11 string (if there wasn't an OH option, they could just hold down after the jump attack and it would save them from all options). It's a mind game and you have to condition them to block one or the other.

It's fuzzyable though as Air Hammer can't be backdashed while the tick and B11 can so opponents used to the matchup won't fall for it and will get the blocking timings right.

 

[Shady1692]

After having to block high, they have to keep blocking high to block Air Hammer or hold down to evade the high tick throw or the B11 string (if there wasn't an OH option, they could just hold down after the jump attack and it would save them from all options). It's a mind game and you have to condition them to block one or the other.

It's fuzzyable though as Air Hammer can't be backdashed while the tick and B11 can so opponents used to the matchup won't fall for it and will get the blocking timings right.

I never have been able to properly understand fuzzy guarding can you explain that to me please?