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Tekken 7 General Discussion Thread - OP Updated With All Tekken Info

Immortal

Blind justice....
@Immortal that mid hitting string that leaves him +1, it has an 8f or maybe 10f gap before the last big ax kick that I'm sure you could jab out of
Sure it has, but good luck reacting to it online every time. Not to mention he can stop after just 1 and go for other options, unless you're playing vs scrubs which i dont. It's almost a natural mix up online. Pisses me off beyond believe.
 

Sutter Pain

Your mothers main.
Man ranked is a shit show, I remember why I don't play it. I have had like 4 people pull on me and like 2-3 use some sort of lag switch where it drops down to 1 bar.
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
Man ranked is a shit show, I remember why I don't play it. I have had like 4 people pull on me and like 2-3 use some sort of lag switch where it drops down to 1 bar.
i feel you man. Just had a shit ranked session. Same shit lag lag lag and it just so happens when i start a combo lol
 

Sutter Pain

Your mothers main.
i feel you man. Just had a shit ranked session. Same shit lag lag lag and it just so happens when i start a combo lol
I don't know how some of these people get these ranks its pretty silly. I played a kat that just stood still and did like 3 moves and throws and she was a fighter rank. And fought a Law who just did wr2 and dragons tail and that jump kick. Some people may fall for that shit but not this paul its deathfist city for them fools lol.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
Jin almost made me uninstall the game today.

This is such a BS, why the FUCK he has normal 3 hitting string which ends with a mid and is +1 (and forces crouch?) on block. Its so BS, he just bullied me most of the time up close. Also why the fuck after i hit him with d2 (0 on hit) he just hop kick me of ws4 (12 frames, mid), it makes no fucking sense.

Either im gonna switch the character or just stop playing Tekken altogether. I just can't wrap my mind around the idea that ON HIT im fucking 0 or better yet -9 and i have to block or backdash. It makes 0 sense for me.
If you make a read on 1,2,3 you can sidestep right and launch Jin, dick jab stuffs both of the extensions. Obviously the best thing to do for Jin is not to commit to any of the last hits on 12, 21 and df1 most of the time. There is a strong incentive to press buttons after blocking his 1,2 which he can still work in his favour by stepping after.

In general you should be looking to sidewalk right against Jin. You really shouldn't be getting locked down against Jin. If the Jin player is content with just checking you with standing 4 to curb your lateral movement instead of doing something that does more damage then you shouldn't stop attempting to sidewalk even if you get hit repeatedly with the standing 4 and have to take a mix-up after it. Eventually you can attempt to cash out on a lot more damage than you have taken by just ducking in his face. If he sticks out the 4 you get an easy ws2 launch. What most likely happens after that is that the Jin player will be looking to counterpoke less and instead just move, allowing you to get a bit more offence going, or he will be looking to do something like a dash into cd1 to cover both stepping and ducking, but that leaves him open to being hit by anything.

Drag's d2 is one of the best lows in the game already. If you are talking about his d4 with the -9 reference, the d4 string is just a combo ender and not meant to be used as a poke. If you got hop kicked after d2 and out of a ws4 attempt, most likely what happened is that the Jin player did a very short backdash or stepped.... or it was an execution error in your part and you did a full crouch d4 instead of ws4. Lows in general are just there to cash out on some damage when you make the read that you can use them and then your pressure is over and you have to do some type of a pseudo frame trap option select like blocking for a very short while then instantly doing a running 2 as soon as you visually confirm that your opponent didn't press buttons if you want to continue your offence.

Frames in general should be thought of as a reference point and some sort of a guideline that you can deviate from if you want to take people by surprise. They simply alter the risk/reward of some options, creating new situations, but they never really stop anyone from pressing buttons. A lot of the time you simply have to allow the game to flow back to neutral and end your pressure because it's the safer thing to do rather than looking to keep the frame abuse going and beat your opponent out of their options. Ever tried sidewalking after + frames against button happy players? It's glorious, you can easily walk all the way to their back.

In MKX or Injustass people will just look to abuse frames, force the opponent to block so they can do mix-ups and just keep up incessant pressure. The reason this works is because there is chip damage and meter. Getting armored or being interrupted with a crouch poke doesn't mean shit because pressing buttons is inherently rewarded so heavily. Getting interrupted in Tekken generally means getting hop kicked or stepped into some other launcher or eating a standing 4 or some other CH launcher, eating the juggle and then having to guess a mix-up at the wall, so you really must tread lightly when it comes to how much you are looking to party on your opponent's expense and trying to keep them locked down.

I've said this before but In Tekken, I believe the first and foremost goal of offence is to get people to press buttons when you want them to and guess their options to blow them up with full combo damage, be it with counterhits or whiff punishes and setting these up with movement or ducking or using crush moves. Frametrapping and mix-ups are the 2nd option, that's in my opinion vastly inferior. People who don't counterpoke eventually get mixed up and thrown to death but that takes a lot longer than blowing up a whiffed df1 or 1,2 with a launcher. Also there is the random factor of someone just blocking for a while then suddenly whipping out the launcher out of a sidestep or something and you can never condition anyone to stop doing things like that. If you think there is the slightest chance of that Jin player hop kicking after being hit by d2 then just backdash afterwards and launch the whiffed hop kick with qcf1. You can also set up a bait for the hop kick by doing d2 into full crouch d4 and the next time you just backdash after the d2.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
Even punishing in this game takes skill, and months and maybe even years of practice to get some serious shit going.
One of the biggest changes to the engine I've noticed is that a lot of the really long and awkward block stuns have been adjusted and made more universal. It's hell of a lot easier to dash electric things like King's d1+2 and not have the entire input get swallowed by the block stun and fucking up the punish (only a df2 comes out or nothing lol). Getting electrics on -15 is something I never even bothered trying in real matches in TTT2 but now I feel like it's definitely worth going for those.
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
I just got a msg that i have been penalized but the match lagged out before it started. All i had was a black screen and music for about 60 seconds so i quit out.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
If you make a read on 1,2,3 you can sidestep right and launch Jin, dick jab stuffs both of the extensions. Obviously the best thing to do for Jin is not to commit to any of the last hits on 12, 21 and df1 most of the time. There is a strong incentive to press buttons after blocking his 1,2 which he can still work in his favour by stepping after.

In general you should be looking to sidewalk right against Jin. You really shouldn't be getting locked down against Jin. If the Jin player is content with just checking you with standing 4 to curb your lateral movement instead of doing something that does more damage then you shouldn't stop attempting to sidewalk even if you get hit repeatedly with the standing 4 and have to take a mix-up after it. Eventually you can attempt to cash out on a lot more damage than you have taken by just ducking in his face. If he sticks out the 4 you get an easy ws2 launch. What most likely happens after that is that the Jin player will be looking to counterpoke less and instead just move, allowing you to get a bit more offence going, or he will be looking to do something like a dash into cd1 to cover both stepping and ducking, but that leaves him open to being hit by anything.

Drag's d2 is one of the best lows in the game already. If you are talking about his d4 with the -9 reference, the d4 string is just a combo ender and not meant to be used as a poke. If you got hop kicked after d2 and out of a ws4 attempt, most likely what happened is that the Jin player did a very short backdash or stepped.... or it was an execution error in your part and you did a full crouch d4 instead of ws4. Lows in general are just there to cash out on some damage when you make the read that you can use them and then your pressure is over and you have to do some type of a pseudo frame trap option select like blocking for a very short while then instantly doing a running 2 as soon as you visually confirm that your opponent didn't press buttons if you want to continue your offence.

Frames in general should be thought of as a reference point and some sort of a guideline that you can deviate from if you want to take people by surprise. They simply alter the risk/reward of some options, creating new situations, but they never really stop anyone from pressing buttons. A lot of the time you simply have to allow the game to flow back to neutral and end your pressure because it's the safer thing to do rather than looking to keep the frame abuse going and beat your opponent out of their options. Ever tried sidewalking after + frames against button happy players? It's glorious, you can easily walk all the way to their back.

In MKX or Injustass people will just look to abuse frames, force the opponent to block so they can do mix-ups and just keep up incessant pressure. The reason this works is because there is chip damage and meter. Getting armored or being interrupted with a crouch poke doesn't mean shit because pressing buttons is inherently rewarded so heavily. Getting interrupted in Tekken generally means getting hop kicked or stepped into some other launcher or eating a standing 4 or some other CH launcher, eating the juggle and then having to guess a mix-up at the wall, so you really must tread lightly when it comes to how much you are looking to party on your opponent's expense and trying to keep them locked down.

I've said this before but In Tekken, I believe the first and foremost goal of offence is to get people to press buttons when you want them to and guess their options to blow them up with full combo damage, be it with counterhits or whiff punishes and setting these up with movement or ducking or using crush moves. Frametrapping and mix-ups are the 2nd option, that's in my opinion vastly inferior. People who don't counterpoke eventually get mixed up and thrown to death but that takes a lot longer than blowing up a whiffed df1 or 1,2 with a launcher. Also there is the random factor of someone just blocking for a while then suddenly whipping out the launcher out of a sidestep or something and you can never condition anyone to stop doing things like that. If you think there is the slightest chance of that Jin player hop kicking after being hit by d2 then just backdash afterwards and launch the whiffed hop kick with qcf1. You can also set up a bait for the hop kick by doing d2 into full crouch d4 and the next time you just backdash after the d2.
While i appreciate your knowledge sharing, i really do. Some things for me make no sense. I don't see Dragunov neutral game as being strong. It's basically WR2 all day, which will get side stepped if i abuse it and i cant go for lows, coz either they're - on hit or 0. Db3 is useless since anybody with reflex faster than a turtle will just hop kick me out of it. B+12 is only useful to locking people at the wall. In other words i struggle in neutral.

And then i go and read character breakdown where you can find among other things for Dragunov:

  • Amazing poking game

  • One of the best pressure characters
And im like - what?

Im usually waiting for my oponent to whiff something so i can go in but even when im in i usually just have to back off after smaller hits coz im not + on hit. Which is hard for me coz it defines logic imo - where on hit i should have advantage and use it for pressure but not here, where people just press button AFTER being hit. So i need to make a read after i hit them - what they gonna do, which makes no sense to me at all.

And to be clear im not complaining. Neither im saying Dragunov is weak or something like that. I like most Dragunov players i've meat online struggle to play him as he should be played. I can always watch JDCR but than again he could play anybody and be great with him so that's not really a factor.
 

WhooFlungPoo

Apprentice
Could someone explain this game please? Im so fuxking frustrated i can barely take it anymore. Played tekken since arcades of part 1. Never really played competitively just button mashed with friends, been trying hard to get into this. Played jun since 2 and dabbled eddie since 3. Naturally im playing asuka and eddie. Seems like characters start too damn close to each other and as soon as the match starts uour opponent is wailing away furiously on attacks that always seem to be faster than uours, everytime. It seemsmlike im constantly having to bug bite attack them down until i can get a counter hit to stun long enough yo get combo potential. While everyone else seem8ngly is able to breath on you and you go anti gravity flying for 80% hpk and uou cant get up. Might as well put the controller down. I just dont understand. Iv been watching aris, iv learned punishes, but they seem to come out so godamn slow everyones attack is always faster. Seems stupid to have to wait for attacks to hit for a CH when one hit is over half ur hp. Why can everyone else run in and wail on buttons for amazing juggle potential? How is that fair? Is it a ps4 lag issue? Is that why my stuff is so slow? Im not trying to be an evo champ, im just trying to enjoy a game iv been into since the 90s. What gives? Looking for sound advice here.

On a side not i dont think iv played but a couple of bad players, seem like everyone that plays this is stupid good.


I just cant deal with pressure, how do you handle constant pressure when the entire cast seems to have faster everything, mixup launchers for days, and never stops pressing buttons?
 
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Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
Could someone explain this game please? Im so fuxking frustrated i can barely take it anymore. Played tekken since arcades of part 1. Never really played competitively just button mashed with friends, been trying hard to get into this. Played jun since 2 and dabbled eddie since 3. Naturally im playing asuka and eddie. Seems like characters start too damn close to each other and as soon as the match starts uour opponent is wailing away furiously on attacks that always seem to be faster than uours, everytime. It seemsmlike im constantly having to bug bite attack them down until i can get a counter hit to stun long enough yo get combo potential. While everyone else seem8ngly is able to breath on you and you go anti gravity flying for 80% hpk and uou cant get up. Might as well put the controller down. I just dont understand. Iv been watching aris, iv learned punishes, but they seem to come out so godamn slow everyones attack is always faster. Seems stupid to have to wait for attacks to hit for a CH when one hit is over half ur hp. Why can everyone else run in and wail on buttons for amazing juggle potential? How is that fair? Is it a ps4 lag issue? Is that why my stuff is so slow? Im not trying to be an evo champ, im just trying to enjoy a game iv been into since the 90s. What gives? Looking for sound advice here.

On a side not i dont think iv played but a couple of bad players, seem like everyone that plays this is stupid good.


I just cant deal with pressure, how do you handle constant pressure when the entire cast seems to have faster everything, mixup launchers for days, and never stops pressing buttons?
Chances are you are inputting your counterpokes too late. NRS games generally tend to have blockstuns that last forever and if you carry that timing over to Tekken you will be dropping frames on everything you throw out.

One thing you could practice is to record a character like Lee doing 1 into df1, 1 into 44 or 12 mist step on loop and look to interrupt or trade with him with jabs, dick jabs and generic d4's. Block the first hit then stick out your chosen poke.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
One of the biggest changes to the engine I've noticed is that a lot of the really long and awkward block stuns have been adjusted and made more universal. It's hell of a lot easier to dash electric things like King's d1+2 and not have the entire input get swallowed by the block stun and fucking up the punish (only a df2 comes out or nothing lol). Getting electrics on -15 is something I never even bothered trying in real matches in TTT2 but now I feel like it's definitely worth going for those.
Indeed, i've actually learning perfect frame executed Electrics for that purpose as well, so far i can punish to -16 consistently -15 you need to know the blockstuns but its also possible to punish -14 now.

Characters like Law which have a b+3+4 and ff+3 at -18 are automatically fucked against mishimas, and similar every character that has a -18 move that wallsplats since it seems they have either reduced the blockstun or the pushback, you can catch paul's deathfist or Heihachi's before they fully retract their arms.

Jin almost made me uninstall the game today.

This is such a BS, why the FUCK he has normal 3 hitting string which ends with a mid and is +1 (and forces crouch?) on block. Its so BS, he just bullied me most of the time up close. Also why the fuck after i hit him with d2 (0 on hit) he just hop kick me of ws4 (12 frames, mid), it makes no fucking sense.

Either im gonna switch the character or just stop playing Tekken altogether. I just can't wrap my mind around the idea that ON HIT im fucking 0 or better yet -9 and i have to block or backdash. It makes 0 sense for me.
All Jin's plus frames are slow except for electric, if he is to hit you with something like it, will always start with a high, if you're not willing to do become a duck to avoid the highs, 123 can be stepped, 1,3~3 is too slow and you can interrupt it, ppl aren't just used to it, neither does jin players.

And you don't want to be at his face if you block those, because he can fish for CH with df2, with 4, f4, b3 and he has throw mixups as well, this is just the only situation where you don't want to be near him, so if he manages do hit you with those things, you better off giving him some space or avoid and punish, Jin plays the best at mid range and with mobility, if you see a Jin who is incapable of using electrics consistent as much as he is able to move to bait out move, pummel him with normals, up close, his best CH its i13 and its a high, his power crush is high too, electric is high.
So lows are good way to make him turn into a duck, just don't get too predictable.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Yea just like in any game the new characters tend to get away with a lot early on because no one has MU exp yet. Game is less than a month released so it takes time to get used to facing things you haven't seen.